Honestly a lot of it is probably people getting comfortable lurking again, Lemmy only counts post and comments as active users
It’s funny how despite social media becoming very normal, the old phenomenon of most content getting generated by a small portion of power users persists.
Tervell and Dirt_Owl.
I post
The_Picard_Manuever@startrek.website providing like 1/3 of all memes on Lemmy:
I’m just not clever enough to post
Have you seen the shitpost communities? Cleverness isn’t required, and in fact I think in those communities it’s somewhat frowned upon, 'cause c’mon, no polishing shit!
My biggest issue is I always forget my good shit posts by the time I have time to post. Getting old sucks
Sometimes I think of things in the shower and after I’m done I can’t find the post I wanted to post in :/
I comment on stuff to try to make discussions active, it rarely works.
It has to be authentic, you can’t just comment to comment.
That’s just not true. I’ve made comments that I thought desirve no reply but humans find a way. If there’s no comments to read the shared content just isn’t that interesting. If I see comments then the shared content must be interesting enough to justify a discussion.
I comment because I crave validation from Internet strangers.
That’s a very good comment
I agree.
You know what? i just did!
This is something I’ve learned from online game forums. You actually have to be divisive to get a high amount of concurrent users.
It only seems to be the shit-shows that anyone feels obligated to post in.
Well I think you’re wrong, fuck you and your opinion /s
I actually don’t know to what extent I agree with you, but your theory certainly feels plausible to me. It reminds me of the internet adage about how the best way to get a right answer to your question is to be wrong. I can’t remember what it’s called.
Cunningham’s law. And just to buck the trend, you didn’t have to get it wrong to get the right answer ;).
Aye, cunningham seemingly meant it as the fastest answer though, which was the sentence right afterwards in that wiki entry. So maybe mr. anarchist-with-a-machine-fetish would have gotten an answer earlier if he had said it was the anti-murphy’s law.
Division gives people something to talk about. Not everyone can think of something constructive and interesting to say at a given time, but when presented with an opinion, it is trivial for most people to formulate a comment either agreeing or disagreeing with it.
Well i think it’s stupid that we need that divisiveness
I never said it was a good thing.
And I never said you said it was a good thing.
I’ve been pretty successful and keeping conversations going! I DO comment quite a bit, though.
Commenting so I‘m active :)
I don’t know how long it counts it for, but I try to remember to comment something like once every two weeks or something
that‘s a good idea. I will copy your „way of lemmy“.
Me no lurk. Me comment.
I’m doing my part!
My comment to stop the lurk
Ok I am guilty of that. What about votes? Are they not counted as activity?
I’ll try to post atleast one comment every now and then.
Well in that case, ping!
Yeah, that’s probably the case.
Well, as they say: “I’m going my part”.
I try to make it a point to post questions on communities that have not kicked off yet, knowing that I most likely will not receive a response for a while.
Really? Oh
So glad I decided to stop lurking and actually start participating right as the whole fediverse dies out, it’s not just lemmy.
I find it more comfortable to contribute to Lemmy than to other sites. There seems to be actual discussion and opportunities to learn, which can be much harder to come across on the other platforms.
And fewer comments that are clearly a chat bot.
When you come across a ‘user’ that almost exclusively defends one controversial politician/company/government and all of their comments seem to follow a script. Also the account is either brand new or 5 years old but only started posting recently.
Don’t worry! They’ve just become less obvious.
That I agree with. I don’t post often but when I do it’s always very positive and makes me want to post more . Compared to Reddit where it would have alot more negative comments or would just get removed by the mods for some stupid reason. Did you know you can no longer post on r/buildapc about asking for suggestions on building PC’s ? What’s even the point anymore?
Well count me in now
Time to count me back in!
You should have seen Lemmy before June 2023. All posts were from the same five people. For now the community seems to be alive and healthy.
I wonder if those same five people are sad, presumably because their posts aren’t as popular.
No, we are sad because the decrease in posts lately have left behind the worst parts of reddit.
No, we are sad because the decrease in posts lately have left behind the worst parts of reddit.
How so?
It’s all junk food generic memes and none of the whole grain hobbyist.
If everyone is browsing by top-6-hour I think we need to rethink the organization of things.
Hi, they aren’t. I browse by Hot on All or Local specifically to discover niche and active communities. The memes I see on Lemmy are actually higher quality compared to Reddit, mostly due to the older user base here. Bonus points that we don’t have extremely toxic communities like dankmemes yet. So overall, that’s much much better for me. Even if the content was dog water, I’d still be happy about the absence of toxicity and everyone enjoying a semi-lame repetitive joke.
stopslurking
I feel caught…
Yep, I’m jaded in my expectations knowing what Lemmy was prior to the massive expansion through June and July…
It was still a fun place, but it was a couple dozen posts a day across all servers, by a handful of people from the bigger servers.
We still have a lot of fixes to make on Lemmy, especially on the moderation, management, and content filtering side of things (though apps have been thankfully filling the gaps on some of these issues). Niche communities still need more participation to get off the ground. I’ll see again where we are in a few months from now.
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Let’s look at some numbers and do some napkin math:
Currently, the top post of Lemmy can usually get a little more than 2K upvotes, which puts Lemmy at about late 2010 to early 2011 reddit level of activity, which is right before reddit hits its explosive growth phase in 2012 with SOPA, Kony, and the Obama AMA. While active user count has been going down, the amount of post and comments have both been steadily going up.
You also have to realize that in more than a decade, there was never a reddit alternative that has EVER hit this level of activity. (unless you count 9gag or the_donald for some reason.)
It’s very simple, most of the posts here are circle jerks (Linux, FOSS, boy howdy aren’t we better than Reddit, communism) or rage bait.
I only come here when I’m having a good day and I want to reel myself in a bit
Edit: see below to see how far Lemmy users will go to circle jerk how much better they are than Reddit
Yeah the front page in particular is pretty bad for the average person. The average user isn’t going to enjoy Star Trek, Self-hosted, and Science memes.
We need a normie.world that has an “all” feed that doesn’t contain 90% niche communities.
I have a potentially contentious opinion. Normies are what ruined Reddit and the crowd attracted by normie communities are why Reddit is even more toxic than it used to be.
We don’t need to attract normies, we just need to attract more people like us.
I don’t hate normies by any means, but I don’t want to hang out with them all day either.
Yeah I completely disagree. Imagine if a city/local gov wanted to use Lemmy in order to be self hosted (similar to EU govs switching to Mastodon) but the public just wonders why their local gov put their stuff on a weird circle jerk website that’s flooded with niche memes. “Why didn’t they use the normal thing (i.e. reddit)?”
We should be welcoming enough that, when someone wants to make a new subreddit, they make Lemmy community instead. And I don’t think thats the case right now.
That’s fair. Hadn’t considered that
“Memes that people don’t get are unwelcoming.”
If a person sees something they’ve never seen before, and turns around and flees, that’s a problem with them being sheltered and pathetic, not a problem with the new thing they haven’t encountered before.
It’s not fleeing as much as it is being so bored that that they never really find the motivation to come back.
The worst part of trying to appeal more to normies is how they hand out bans like they’re candy.
Gotta appeal to advertisers that want the normie eye balls.
I hate using the word normie, because these people truthfully haven’t done anything wrong. It’s the advertisers that follow them around like vampires that are the issue.
Under a centralized system, bans are terrible. But federation is awesome because it’s perfectly okay for an instance to be ban-happy. Just join another instance. (I’m on lemm.ee because I want to see everything)
Not only is it fine, but I think we actually need a variety of instances; no-bans, some-bans, lots-of-bans, and excessive-bans. People should have the choice.
Nothing more normie than tribalism.
Then go use Reddit if you want all the normies around. There’s a site that already exists that meets your desires. I still use it for niche content, but there has been an undeniable increase in toxicity on Reddit as the user count has increased.
Incredible.
Typical down vote and smarmy useless comments. Feels like you want to go back home.
Using normie unironicaly, you never left home.
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Also a weirdly large amount of “death to America” and whatnot.
Don’t forget rabid antisemitism and Hamas-shilling.
While I don’t entirely disagree, I’m a little confused by your description of the front page of lemm.ee, which we’re both on. My front page when viewing All here is mostly memes/shitposts/news/technology when set to Active sort, is yours not?
I’ve admittedly blocked a fair amount and have show NSFW/bot posts disabled, but the communities you mention aren’t affected by that.
Yeah I could’ve been more clear. I mean the All feed not Local. I went and updated my comment. And to be fully clear, I’ve got no complaints about lemm.ee. It’s exactly what I want, e.g. show me everything and I’ll decide what to block. That said, I know I’m not the norm.
Saying you blocked a fair amount is exactly what I’m talking about, so have I. A little bit of effort can really make the feed more palletable. We need to have a place where that is done by default. Maybe even an open source AI or even just an algorithm that tailors it to the user. I’m already glad Lemmy.world is much more moderate than lemm.ee, and we just need a place that goes all the way; NSFW blocked by default, several communities blocked-by-default (not defederated), and somehow prevents All from being flooded by niche memes. I love Linux and the memes (even if they get a bit repetitive) but we shouldn’t have 3 of the top 10 posts be linux memes.
I tried to get my lab mate, a PhD in computer science and Linux Mint user, to get a Lemmy. He took one look at the all page, laughed, pointed out the circle jerk stuff and asked how some junk posts even made it to the all page and then said “yeah, no thanks” and has never touched Lemmy since. He was already 4 times more likely than the average person, but even he was instantly turned off.
I gotcha. Fwiw I kind of agree, even beyond Lemmy I’ve been a little surprised some of these sites/instances haven’t done more to tailor themselves to accommodate more folks or focus on specific demographics.
That’s supposed to be one of the big perks of the federation approach, being able to create more distinct communities, but outside of a few, they largely seem to run the software as-is, maybe with some backend adjustments to help reduce the costs of operation or the like.
Yeah, and maybe that means I should try making such an instance. I don’t have the funds for something like lemmy.world, but I’ve got the technical background. So maybe that’ll turn into my winter break project
Don’t forget firefox
Lol, yesterday it felt like there was at least half a dozen posts about Firefox, mostly claiming that YouTube was slowing them down. Which seemed really bad at first, till I dug into it and saw it was probably an unintended bug with ad handling.
And why were there so many posts? Who wants to see the same post more than once?
We need a normie.world
It’s called reddit and that’s why I left. Fuck the normies. They’ll import fascism.
That sounds unnecessarily combative so let me expend my argument.
There’s a book called The Authoritarians by a man called Bob Altermyer. Altermyer is now retired but he was a professor of psychology at the University of Manitoba. During his career he did a lot of research into authoritarians, both followers and leaders. In the book he describes for laypeople the experiments and the findings. If you want to do a deep dive into his statistical analysis you can because the whole thing is fully referenced but for people who just want an easy to read description that is also easy to understand then this is the book for you.
After reading the book redditors behaviour became a lot more easy to understand. I was less upset by what was going on but I stopped engaging because I now understood that reddit wasn’t a site for me anymore. It was a site for people that enjoyed being normal and doing normal things. And that’s ok, why shouldn’t they be catered for?
I use reddit and lemmy exclusively on desktop or laptop. So when the app business came up I didn’t regard it as my fight, however I thought that if I expected people to stand up for my interests if they are challenged I should show a bit of solidarity with them. So I didn’t visit reddit at all for the days it was blacked out. I didn’t like how spez reacted. I saw that people were crossing to the fediverse and I took a look for myself. I liked it. I posted. I wasn’t attacked for having a non-normie viewpoint. I liked that a lot.
The thing about normies is they don’t read scientific studies for fun, they don’t like long winded explanations about why the world is the way it is. They think they can see something in the street and extrapolate an entire social policy from it and there are chancers that will tell them, ‘You know what? You’re right. We don’t need experts telling you that you’re wrong, what do they know?’
So your Jordan Petersons and your Nigel Farages and Alex whatever his nameis, these people and reddit’s normie audience are made for each other. I’ll even go as far as to say this extends to the people that think the Democrats or the Labour Party are going to fix their problems, Team Liberal aren’t doing themselves any favours but my point is that if your goal is a massive website that caters to the largest part of the reddit audience you’re going to end up swimming in cryptofascist and sometimes outright fascist content. Been there, seen that, got the t-shirt.
Interesting, I think I’ll take a look. You sorta skipper over what ‘normie’ or reddit behaviour was mentioned in his book specifically. Was it the lack of reading scientific articles you mentioned in another paragraph, that alone can’t be it right?
Listen, just go and read the thing; it will be time better spent than listening to me precis it from memory. but if you do read it a feel like it hasn’t given you an insight into what drives a whole host of behaviour that one sees on social media or that I’ve misunderstood the book then do come back to me and I will refresh my memory of the book to have that discussion with you.
Yeah, that’s fair enough, gotta do my own homework some of the time.
That’s not lemmy, that’s all social media (albite divisive topics are a bit different among different communities).
This is a hot take, but I think humanity is slowly turning it’s back on social media because of it’s toxic nature. You can only open a browser and get your nuts kicked so many times before you finally decide you don’t like getting your nuts kicked.
humanity is slowly turning it’s back on social media
Are you living in a parallel universe or something? Are we talking for the same humanity that is 24/7 on Instagram and on tiktok?
I really wish you’re right but I’m afraid that the minorities you may know who just abandoned Facebook are not representing humanity
Hmm, yeah I definitely see how I am biased there. I’ve been on social media since its inception, so my opinion is likely influenced mostly by people who have experienced social media for ~2 decades and are sick of it now.
Would be nice if that’s the direction being taken.
The echo chamber is as bad as reddit but less diverse and smaller. Sometimes it’s really painful.
Isn’t Lemmy suposed to be FOSS? I thought that was the main reason why people left Reddit for Lemmy was that and API changes. Wouldn´t other FOSS be of interestt too? Just a thought.
Reddit’s great strength was that it was big enough that niche communities could attract enough users to have interesting conversations and a steady flow of content, and if you are a Reddit refugee looking for those sorts of communities you aren’t likely to find them on Lemmy. I’ve more or less made my peace with that, but if you’re not the kind to stand on principle, a falling user count is bad news for the hope that the Fediverse might snowball into the sort of place that can support discussions about your passions and hobbies even if they’re not the sort of thing that is popular with a specific set of tech-savvy anti-capitalist leftwing activists (and I say this with love as a fellow tech-savvy leftie… but y’all got one-track minds and it shows in what communities live and die around here).
That’s fine, there’s intelligent conversation here, it feels like reddit did ten years ago.
Yeah even a pretty unpopular car brand (Infiniti) has a pretty active sub due to the install base. I think I’m the only person here who has posted about it at all on lemmy.
I wish spez hadn’t ruined Reddit.
Hey don’t forget about the other half of the posts, which are in a language you don’t understand. Seriously, my block list is long because language settings here mean nothing, and while I’m sure that’s quality content, uh, I can’t understand it.
Fuck yes.
Good days are good!
Thats why i like this place. Arguing and discussion online is terrible and its more suited to do with friends you trust.
I exclusively surf “top 6 hours” and I’ve actually noticed an uptick in niche community content, lately. Different kind of growth, maybe a sort of settling into itself, finally.
If everyone is browsing by top-6-hour I think we need to rethink the sorting of things.
Oh yeah, the sort here kind of sucks. Also just using the site, you lose your place/sort if you click into a link or the comments. Like, if I’m on page 2 of Top 6 Hours, click a link, and then click back into the scroll… pretty sure I just see the first page of Active again until I either refresh or change pages.
That could definitely be improved as well.
I don’t think Voyager has this problem. Highly, highly recommend, both on desktop and mobile. The UI is slick enough that it’s kept me here. All I do is laugh at shit memes but it’s perfect
That’s a bug they’re fixing in the next patch I think
Are you using any app, or just through a browser? On a mobile browser, I find the back button to take me to the previous page of posts (so if I clicked into a comment thread on page 3, hitting the back button takes me to page 2). It’s definitely odd.
Lemmy sorting has shit ever since there was enough content here to make sorting necessary. It’s been five months and it hasn’t been fixed.
Lemmy desperately needs a fork.
I sort by New. Bring it all on.
I subscribed to the communities I care the most about and sort by subscribed and new. That said, across 20 communities it’s probably something like 10-15 new posts per day so after I get through those and interact it’s off to all.
But I do try to engage in the communities I want to see grow.
New gets… Weird
That’s all I scroll as well. It’s not a bad experience over all
Bro, I noticed the same, it has been a long time since I played around with the sort types, I basically settled with Active and hid all seen stuff, now I feel I get different content with other kinds of sorts.
It’s worth noting that Lemmy only had around 1000 active users for the first half of 2023. (Kbin had fewer than 40 active users until May 2023!) Currently Lemmy + Kbin have about 38,000 active users.
That’s the reality of where we are. A quiet rural village that turned into a boom town, and now is finding a new normal.
Personnaly, I’m really enjoying it. You can interact without the Reddit toxicity. I miss a few specialized communities but I can live without it.
The behavior is describe as toxic definitely still exists here, and it’s worse because the morons tend to get up voted by other morons.
Yup, Lemmy is just as toxic if not more on some aspects
I think the difference is that I have experienced a lot of people engaging constructively with comments that they definitely wouldn’t have on reddit.
(Not that they would have reacted badly, they just wouldn’t have gotten responses at all)
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That’s irrelevant, it shows that the hive mind trends toward the stupid opinion.
Yeah Reddit just sucks now. I don’t care much about karma, but it can be discouraging to type out a long answer to help someone and just get a downvote with no comment or anything. Over and over again.
The influx of people who don’t know how the site is supposed to work, on top of the usual toxicity, has just ruined it for me.
Social media as a whole is slowing down I think. People are starting to realize it makes them angry, sad, and annoyed.
Internet in general is becoming boring and tedious. Don’t know if it’s because of my age (Started to use internet when I was 13yo now I’m 31) but the internet isn’t that exciting and curiosity inducing place to me.
Have you continued exploring, or found yourself settling in more?
For me any place stagnates when I start settling into it, so I try to find a new angle, a new question to ask of it, and eventually something gives way to something exciting and fascinating that was right around the corner the whole time.
I continued exploring it. But, aside of one or other interesting sites that catch my attention for long periods of time (e.g. TvTropes), I can’t find internet amusing as I used to do in my childhood/teens. Sometimes I pick a good site that keep me entertained while browsing CloudHiker, but isn’t the same thing anymore.
This ain’t a problem with the internet, it’s just because you’re getting older and you’ve seen more things.
I literally bought a Lightphone II because I was spending too much time on reddit. Like, I’d stay in bed for an hour just scrolling.
I’ve recently slacked off and started keeping my iPhone (on wifi) next to me when I sleep. I loose interest in like 20 minutes.
I’ve made a point of not posting or commenting on reddit since the recent debacle, but it’s really frustrating when I have some OC that would be great for a niche community that just doesn’t exist in any real numbers on lemmy.
like Playdate dev or Framework laptop.
Good god, I sure hope so.
I won’t lie. I mostly don’t engage with content I see here. I didn’t do that when I was on Reddit either and mostly for the same reason: I don’t really have much to say and, even when I do have an opinion, I don’t usually want to engage in what’s often a protracted debate about something that will probably just end up being frustrating.
That’s not to say I haven’t had positive experiences on the Fediverse - I’ve had more here than anywhere else - I’m just not particularly motivated most of the time.
Well, I want to thank you for sharing your thoughts.
There are a number of thread topics on Lemmy that seem to keep going the same direction (Google, Musk, Gaza, Trump, Windows, etc.), and as you say, it can be frustrating and exhausting…
At the same tine on Lemmy, I had found articles that were worthwhile reading, updates to FOSS that I would have otherwise missed, no shortage of silly memes, and a handful of new perspectives that were positively thought provoking. Those let me look past most of the negative things and stuff that is pervasive on all kinds of forums, Reddit and social media on the whole.
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I do most of my discourse on Beehaw which is protected in many ways. When I used reddit I would often have a comment typed out ready to post and think better of it since I knew it would only drive dismissive and antagonistic responses of the stupidest kind. It may be because of the protections or it may be because of the smaller community but I find a lot less posturing and a lot more actual conversation since I’ve been using this platform. This is what keeps me here rather than reddit. It might be worth engaging in conversations you wouldn’t have on reddit when you’re interested.
I agree… Beehaw is such a wonderful and special place on the internet. I have an account there but I try to keep it separate from my main Lemmy.ca one so that I better hold myself accountable to the server rules, in order to foster nicer discourse.
I’ll happily participate with light-hearted content but otherwise I mostly feel like you when it comes to any polarising topics like politics, etc.
We need more idiots who can comment “this” on everything
The quality here is far better with the exception of maybe some user generated text stories. Posts don’t just get lost in a sea of posts. The users here may not be as many, but it appears to have more consistent engagement and far less people PM’ing me offering me Amazon gift cards for feet pics.
I mostly lurk so this is me being proactive!
Less content, that is spread across multiple instances that can have duplicate communities.
You just can’t keep doomscrolling here, the “active” search repeats all the time and the “best of the day” is like two pages.
And then there’s specific communities that just… Stayed on Reddit.
Infinite growth is not a good thing, numbers rise and fall just let it do it’s own thing. That being said, maybe if the Lemmy instances would stop defederating like children snatching toys from one another at a daycare it would get more engagement.
How do you think they can better address the problem of abusive users from other servers?
I mean how did it work on Reddit? You banned the abusive users.
That wouldn’t work on Lemmy because one can make infinity user names on an instance without CAPTCHAs (or any other throttling).
And even then, Reddit tended to allow a lot of trolling.
I’m pretty sure the complaint is about instances that do have captchas/some kind of verification enabled but still being defederated.
So why doesn’t the “offending” server just ban them itself?
Read the comments thread of ANY of the “we defederated from” posts and it’s always the same “They were annoying tankies” shit. It isn’t a matter of abusive users, they have tools for that. They just want to allow fash shit to fester unopposed by the people capable of disarming it.
Just look at any instance that has hexbear and lemmygrad blocked. Their culture is already starting to decay into becoming reddit nazi bars.
We should be more active to keep this ship afloat. Don’t be stringy with the comments.
