No I’m not catastrophising.
The world is slowly lurching towards a fully fascist led America, India, Hungary, Russia, Netherlands, Germany, Italy and Argentina.
Instead people are either ignorant or blaming “wokeism”* for their problems.
I have no clue what to do and this is literally a car crash in slow motion.
I’m despondent because I’m going to be crushed under the boot when the time comes and my morals get in the way of my survival instinct.
Humans are repeating the mistakes of the past. It’s just so anxiety inducing.
*Woke is a useless term promulgated by fascists to dog whistle the things they really want to hate - feminism, socialism, LGBTQIA+, immigration, brown/black people, equality and diversity.
Yeah you poor souls are truly living in an anti democratic fascist oligarchy and man I wish I could do something to help… God save us all for what will happen when the time comes to pay for someone with weapons
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Ok maybe Austria will get these fascist assholes in power. Thats bad because Austria is like a playground in politics if it could happen in Austria it could happen in Germany too and then everywhere else.
Maybe we can still win against these facist assholes
I think that instead of it being the end we will simply learn that fully fascist world is actually quite good for business and nothing will change for vast majority of people. I’m not saying it will be good. It will be worse, just not as bad as you think.
fully fascist world is actually quite good for business
How does this work?
Same way capitalism and globalization is good for business? Right wing parties tend to oppose social policies and promote income inequality which is good for corporations. Again, not saying it will be good for us. Just that we’ve seen couple if shifts to the right like this already. In a decade or two it will shift back to the left. Except in US, there the empire will collapse but is questionable if it will be net negative for the world.
America eventually does the right thing after exhausting every other option.
Unless you’re any color but white, or any gender but male.
Make up your mind. OP is also worried about India. Only white people will be fine in India? You pretend to be worried about the whole world but very quickly show that you’re actually only worried about the western countries.
Being that I live in Texas, it’s been really tough for me to worry about anything but over here. But you’re right, we’re certainly not the only place dealing with this kind of shit. Apologies.
I want to get mad at your apathy, but really, it just makes me sad.
Of course it won’t be the end. In the same way climate disaster isn’t the end of the world, but it is the end of the world as we know it.
A fascist takeover of many of the most powerful countries in the world wouldn’t mean the end for all, but it does mean the end for whoever is deemed “other”. In the case of 1930s/40s Germany, that was political opponents, Jews, disabled, and LGBT people.
Today and in the future, who knows what arbitrary definition of a person will be chosen to make people “other”. It could be anything from traditional hate categories like race or sexuality to something new like length of hair.
I don’t know what kind of person you are but you clearly feel confident that you won’t be one of the ones on the receiving end of violence and the fact you think that’s okay because it’s not happening to you is so… depressing. If you don’t have a moral compass for the sake of others, at least try and have one for the sake of yourself because as fascism rears its head, whatever demographic you fall into may be next at the receiving end of the violence.
First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews And I did not speak out Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me And there was no one left To speak out for me
you think that’s okay
Where did I say that? Just because I don’t agree with your extremely pessimist predictions means I think fascism is OK? WTF?
America, India, Hungary, Russia, Netherlands, Germany, Italy and Argentina.
America, India and Russia where a terrible, terrible places for democracy and minorities for decades now. Only because you’re just now waking up to this fact doesn’t mean the world is sliding into fascism.
Netherlands, Germany and Italy still operate inside EU and still follow all the rules. EU has powerful tools for enforcing those rules, they just managed to force Hungary to back down over Ukraine funding. Poland just had w big swing to the left, as did Spain. EU is sliding to the right, yes, but it’s more a typical, generational shift than embrace of fascism.
Argentina has terrible economic issues, their populism is completely different.
Basically what’s going on is that the American illusion of a democracy is finally collapsing and since I don’t think it’s the end of the world I’m OK with fascism. We all should hold hands with Americans and help them cope with the realization their country is not as great as they thought…
I really don’t think you understand what facism really is…I think you’re looking at Republicans flirting with openly enacting facism, and thinking “well, if it’s just to that degree it’ll be ok”
Facism is like this - you have an authoritarian group, and they promise a perfect world if only everyone believed their ideology.
But their ideology is garbage, and so we’re going to have problems. And so they’re going to look around and say “it’s LGBT people, they’re ruining everything!”. Then they’re going to directly or indirectly outlaw their existence, and use that to imprison them.
They’ll milk it for as long as they can… But as this goes on, you get more and more “true believers” who escalate and speed up the process
But that’s not going to fix anything, obviously. So they’ll look around again for people they can declare different… Maybe it’s black people, or Mexicans, or alleged spies from China. Maybe it’s stem workers, or college grads. Maybe it’s just anyone who doesn’t play along hard enough, and we go the ideological purity route
But again, that’s only going to make things worse, so they’ll have to find someone else to target. They require an enemy to blame for everything that goes wrong. And a lot is going to go wrong…
You can say this is all hyperbolic, but it’s really not. The Nazis started just like this, with book bans, control over education, and going after trans people. Then they went after political opposition, then things really got into swing.
Oh, ok, I see what’s going on here. You see, since you started listing all those other countries I thought you actually are referring to global situation. Now I see you’re only talking about USA, That’s why I said you’re exaggerating. USA is not the whole world. The world will be fine. USA taking more isolationist stance may even be good for everyone else. But thanks for explaining to me, an European, what fascism is. We really don’t know anything about it here. Only Americans understand this phenomenon. Can you also explain to me what democracy and freedom is?
just not as bad as you think.
Genocide is extremely bad
I guess what I’m saying is that there will be no world war or genocides. Was that really so difficult to understand? Like, you really think I was suggesting that genocide is not that bad?
I’m starting to love the groupthink here. “The world is ending. Yes, yes, it’s the end. Let’s down-vote anyone slightly less pessimistic”.
I guess what I’m saying is that there will be no world war or genocides.
Then you don’t understand fascism.
Like, you really think I was suggesting that genocide is not that bad?
People suggest that all the time.
Then you don’t understand fascism.
Ok, I guess we’ll see who was right in a couple of years. But I’m genuinely surprised so many people think we will have nuclear apocalypse in a couple of years. Sounds more like silly groupthink and coping than honest concern. But if you really think you’re a year or two away for unimaginable suffering or death I feel for you. Has to be terrible.
Pretty much all of history dealing with fascism disagrees with you. That alone justifies the concern. I haven’t seen anyone say the world is a year or two away from unimaginable suffering or death. But there is a very clear path to unimaginable suffering or death in front of us. We’ve seen the path of fascism taken before. We know what happens. We have historical and academic research that backs it up that we can compare to today.
Saying (without any evidence) that people are overreacting sounds much more like a coping mechanism to me. People are saying “hey we should really check out this smoke billowing under the door” and you’re telling everyone they’re being silly because you can’t see any fire.
Dude, the topic of this post is “2024 is going to be the beginning of the end of us all”. It says “No I’m not catastrophising.”, " I’m going to be crushed" and “The world is slowly lurching towards a fully fascist …”.
Now you’re trying to say it all just means “hey we should really check out this smoke billowing under the door”. Jesus fucking Christ, you really don’t see it? To prove how wrong I am claiming OP is exaggerating you yourself had to tone down his rhetoric by 90%. If the OP would say “Hey, we should be careful or the extreme right will take over and dismantle some of our rights” I would totally agree. But yeah, keep pretending he was reasonable and I disagreed with his totally rational, toned down arguments.
So what exactly are you disagreeing with? You just don’t like their word choice? Because “Hey we should he careful or the extreme right will take over and dismantle our rights” is exactly what I get from OP. They specifically stated this is the beginning, it’s happening slowly, and they feel they would be a target if we continue on the same trajectory. What’s incorrect/hyperbolic here?
Spoken like a good little bootlicker.
Best keep that tongue on that boot, lest it steps on you instead. Same goes for those businesses under a fascist government. I’m sure life will be good for them, especially if they don’t mind the taste of leather.
Remove their tongue from the boot, and business won’t be good for them.
I wonder what you’re doing about the imminent world war that’s so brave and non-bootlicking.
Speaking up and calling out fascist behavior. Not spending my money on businesses that promote fascists. Voting. Keeping my long barrel in good condition, may it never need to be used.
Soap, ballot, jury, and cartridge boxes, in that order.
So posting on lemmy and boycotting businesses you don’t like. Awesome.
Hey guys, don’t worry about the future, this guy will totally stop fascism. We’re fine.
Better than trying to lick my way to the center of a boot while making disingenuous jabs on Lemmy.
Sure sure, keep repeating that to yourself.
Even for a bootlicker, you seem especially bitter, sarcastic, and downtrodden. Might help to find someone licensed to talk that out. Ain’t healthy keeping it bottled up, and spewing vitriol on Lemmy doesn’t help anyone.
2024 is just 2020 part 5.
2024 is just 2020 4
Ahh the old inclusive vs. exclusive numbering.
2020 would be 2020 part 1, 2021 part 2, 2022 part 3, 2023 part 4, and finally 2024 part 5.
“Twenty-twenty-four is just twenty-twenty four.”
Touche
Well, at least that will take your mind off global warming. Which is good since we have already hit 1.5°C of warming.
1.5 and we’re just getting started! Let’s goooooo! It’s incredible what humans can do when we work together 🔥👏🏻🔥👏🏻🔥
You are a horrible person to make me laugh so hard at our folly
I suggest target practice, that way you won’t get crushed by boots…and you can resist any fascist in your area, and encourage others in your immediate area to do the same.
Start a club, and then you can hold parties, where you show each other new knowledge, and help others to protect themselves…and fight against all the fascist hordes!
John Brown gun club or Socialist Rifle Association are out there… also there are plenty of paramilitary and social fascist groups to protect yourself against. Proud boys, border nutjobs, don’t listen to naysayers about learning to defend yourself. It’s not just military with tanks and planes. It’s your back the blue neighbor you have to worry about…
This isn’t Red Dawn. People will quickly find out how inadequate they are against a military.
When real conflict begins domestically it will be drones being used by those in power. Guns won’t do much good.
Better learn spark gap jammers then
But odds are it won’t be the military. At least, not at first. It will most likely start with all those right-wing punisher-worshipping nutters who want an excuse to shoot ‘the liburlz’, with local cops either helping out or staying out of the way, and the government conveniently ignoring everything. Or at least, that’s how it’s tended to go in the past.
(See kristallnacht, Tulsa race massacre, Wilmington massacre, Rosewood massacre, Ocoee massacre…)
And those local assholes can be repelled with guns.
alright now im really confused. how does the world devolving into fascism bring complete anarchy? aren’t those completely different things?
Yes, fully agree, we’re living in post apocalypse times :( Climate crisis will cause more casualties, and the rising fascism will do so as well. There’s usual housing crisis, and the hyped A.I. as well among others.
In your list of countries you can add Belgium as well. In fact today it is hard to think of a country in Europe which has shown zero far right or fascism sentiments nowadays. It is difficult to focus on positive things but things like solidarity, keeping in touch with like minded people, de-growth, D.I.Y. and de-googling can help.
I hate to say this but I’ve honestly just gotten used to the idea at this point. I’ve been watching the people around me howling in support of fascism since about 2015 now and the more egregious these politicians crimes become the louder these idiots seem to howl for them. It’s been going so long that it’s just part of the background noise of day to day life now, and I’m tired of caring anymore. It’s fucking depressing.
How can we convince people now is the time to act? What more information do we need? I think most people are clinging to the idea everything is a business as usual. As long as they can keep the lights on they wouldn’t want to upset the stability they’ve managed to make for themselves.
As a Russian who’s been thinking about what could’ve been done about Putin’s many moves towards authoritarianism, I say this: I don’t know. I dint think anyone knows either.
indsight is 20/20, so good luck trying to convince people to act now, before the far and distant future is here; it’s probably part of our nature to not be that much concerned with the long-term, as it’s the short- to mid-term that keeps us alive, i.e. fed, sheltered, hopefully healthy etc.
At this point, it feels like history is indeed very cyclical, at least society is, and now anyone left of outright fascism seems to be in minority, with many others either failing or refusing to recognise what’s likely coming. I don’t think it’s new, either - I’m sure people of our ages had things to compare their situation to during the Nazis’ rise to power and subsequent events, just like we look back to their times and wonder how in the world could we possibly let that happen.
It’s probably best to vote and to protest and to be politically active and all that, before the right-wing or some other authoritarian group manages to manipulate its way into your government, local or higher, and start doing all it can to make you not even think of voting or protesting or being politically active. The caveat is you just don’t have any guarantees that any of that is going to work.
What’s even more important to remember is the fact that we cannot come up with some universal solution that’s going to always work the best way possible in every political and economical and social circumstance. This is what makes recording history and experience so important - it will allow us and those that will be after us to analyse the multitudes of factors and tendencies that lead to things and hopefully figure out reliable and effective and predictable mechanisms for society to function and prosper in mutual respect, egalitarianism, support, etc.
My last take is probably a little controversial: I think we shouldn’t ostracise people we see as fascist or right-wing or authoritarian, etc., but rather be welcoming and supporting, giving them respect, community and opportunity to speak and be listened to with kindness and understanding; many turn to violent and inhumane ideologies because, well, they don’t value themselves, feel threatened, humiliated, afraid, or something along these lines. It doesn’t have to be true, because it’s about how people feel, and we must work with how people feel and influence that on emotional level so they feel like they being in a group that’s based on being “anti-woke” or just “anti-” something - that’s a dead end; they should feel like they belong to groups that envision future and prosperity, where people know they can be trusted and can trust, where they can respect and be respected. You may not like it, but you have to understand that the human psyche can be very flexible and eventually turn a person you could easily turn into a human-loving ally into a bloodthirsty fascist just because they couldn’t find their place anywhere else, so instead they’re easily picked up by a group that manipulates confused and lost people into a sense of community and belonging.
Fascism has to be the unappealing option for them, and that requires a mind healthy from trauma and loneliness, the lack of that feeling like you’ve been played and robbed of something you own - like some great historical period the mouthpieces promise to get you back into if you yell at teenage girls for wearing bright-colored hair and rainbow pins.
I agree with your controversial take, however it’s important to note that a lot of this fascist rhetoric relies on misinformation which is spread far quicker and further than the truth. And the neofascism that has taken hold is very in-group oriented (i.e. the concepts that the in group is by definition morally virtuous and thus can do no real harm, whereas the out-group is the opposite) which is difficult to break down with logic and rhetoric. That’s not to say it can’t be done, but in terms of conversion (purely as a metric, i don’t mean to be oberly reductionist) it will always be one step forward three back. And if they people don’t approach a conversation in good faith it can be downright impossible to get them to even fathom a differing perspective. What I’m saying is that the new breed of fascists rely solely on dogma and groupthink, and have been trained to reject any rebuttal or outside perspective. They took what the old fascists did well and optimized it and trained people in it for the past 70+ years.
I don’t even have the energy to keep resisting the endless flow of bullshit anymore. It gets worse from day to day. What bothers me the most is that it’s gotten so bad that i turned apathetic to it. If someone starts spewing right wing bullshit i just zone out until they finished. In the end I won’t be directly affected by a right wing leadership in my country but i still can’t stand the idea. All the progress we have made in the last few years in terms of equality would just go to waste
I won’t be directly affected by a right wing leadership
Well, you know that famous quote where in the end there’s no one to fight for you when they come for you?
That’s why i said directly. I will definitely be affected in some form at dome point
Oh look another “GOP are fascists” post! I get that you guys dont like those guys, but your group is more fascistic than there group.
Yeah trump and his cult are actually fascists. Don’t know about the rest of the party but trump is, and so are several other major right-wing figures who are gaining too much ground worldwide. Look up Mussolini. Also learn the definition of fascism (it’s not just authoritarianism you don’t like)
“a political system based on a very powerful leader, state control, and being extremely proud of country and race, and in which political opposition is not allowed”
STATE CONTROL
Well done, you have defined autocratic authoritarianism. Now define fascism. hint: it goes much further than that and is very definitely economically right wing and socially regressive
Fascism is more than just a right wing ideology. I am not a fan of Trump and his group, but the left wing side is the real fascistic danger, they just like to project.
You’re right, fascism is more than just a right wing ideology. But it IS a right wing ideology, the left literally cannot be fascists. They can be fucking awful (and indeed are) but they are still better than the ACTUAL fascists that trump and his cult are
Then what would you call it when the left wing does the same thing?
Not fascism, but fascism requires the corporation stance that is symptomatic of the right
So then we are just arguing about the right word to use? So without using the F word, from my life, the left is the one that wants to take away my freedoms much more than the right side does. They are the one that will be the actual cause of the domestic strife when it probably will occure.
the left is the one that wants to take away my freedoms much more than the right side does.
I’m guessing you’re a white cis het male with some savings, then
How so?
crickets
They totally feel it to be true, and they’ve been told their feelings are more valuable and true than actual facts.
For starters everything that happened with COVID.
I mean, you may have a point but you’re being vague either intentionally or not I’m not sure.
Do you mean: vaccine mandates? mask mandates?
What exactly was fascistic about COVID?
I am referring to all the things that did that forced people to go along or be punish by the government or private government funded institutions.
There were no mask mandates federally I don’t think. Most of those were instituted state-wide?
Vaccine mandates date back to 1800s in the US. However, I’m once again I’m left to my imagination.
I think I’d need some examples? Also, are those things fascist? Or are they government policies you disagree with?
The vaccine mandate that the president instituted using OSHA, would be the biggest thing of all, but the supreme court shot that down. Or that people couldnt work in most states due to the virus. That was done on the state level with guidance from the federal level, but was probably one of the most damaging things to happen in the country with no actual benefit. They took away all kinds of rights, and many times they well knew it was unconstitutional.
Hang on, so the president instituted a vaccine mandate but the supreme court shot it down. How’s that fascist? I did mention that vaccine mandates aren’t actually new.
If things are done at the state level isn’t that dependent upon the state? How’s that a blue thing? Were only blue states affected? Would you mind linking to any articles about this?
I mean I think removing Roe V Wade was far more damaging than any of that stuff. I thought seizing the supreme court was messed up.
I understand how you might feel this way. But a key difference to the early 1930s is that there are many large-scale protests against far right extremism in Germany. The elections in the Netherlands did produce a right wing tendency, but there is no government as of yet and the PVV is still pretty far away from fascism. The other three large winners of the election are not even that right wing. At least no more than the party that ruled for the last 15 years.
That said, I do kinda hope that this phase passes quickly and that people will start to finally get along and care about our fellow humans. Even though we never have.
The protests in germany give me hope that the german public finally resists against fascism instead of just letting it happen and then saying “there’s nothing that could have been done” afterwards
I expect the US will hold out for at least the next 4.5 years. After that, no promises.
4.5 years is optimistic with an election pending
I expect that the US will last five years, what’s the bet?
I don’t know what is missed And at this moment, I am too afraid to ask
I find it fascinating that so many people realize that this happens but very few actually do something against it. I don’t mean demonstrating, although that’s a good thing and better than nothing, but what to do to fight fascism on a sustainable, more permanent level? Fight disinformation wherever you meet it, don’t ever ignore it. Ever. Spray cans and large permanent pens are your friend in the beginning. No paroles. Truth. Do something for/ with the youth in your area, even if they laugh at you or ignore you, they WILL think about it in the end. Network. Talk to all kinds of people, again, no paroles, just listen to their problems, then lead them carefully on a way and let them decide themselves. Very many will come to a human conclusion. And make it clear to the rest, that the fascists will take their money first. Compare them to con men, because that’s what they are. One last thing: “shock therapy” does NOT work (anymore). People filter much easier today. Any more suggestions? I mean real ones, not “shoot them all” BS
