The same organization is making it very clear that this is not proof because they only have publicly available Intel.
The group cited several clips believed to be of the explosion from different sources and claimed the “geolocation and timing of the footage is conclusive”. However, they said their conclusions are not “proven fact”.
“That doesn’t mean that they are THE truth, just what we think is highly likely based on our geolocations(facts) and logic/reason,” they wrote on Twitter.
“We are geolocators, not official investigators… To be sure what really happened, different official investigations are needed.”
Israel and the US have more intelligence that could definitely prove what happened…
But for some reason they aren’t releasing it. Most logical reason is it shows Israel launched it, or blew up the hospital while trying to shoot a rocket down.
If it cleared Israel, that satellite footage would be out by now. Gaza is too tiny for me to believe Israel just wasn’t surveiling it at the time.
You think intelligence agencies would release primary source data that could reveal collection methods and fidelity to other nation state intelligence agencies just to win PR points?
There’s only one individual I can think of that would do something like that, and he’s currently facing charges relating to his handling of classified materials.
Are you talking about former president Donald Buttcheeks?
Is that really the most logical conclusion to be drawn? It’s been less than a day, and I would really hope intellegince services are more diligent than your average twitter sleuth. Id rather they be right than first, personally.
Also what satellite footage are you talking about?
You dont think Israel has satellites looking at Gaza?
It’s a very very small area, and missiles/rockets are more than visible enough. It should be really easy to see if it came from Israel or further in Gaza.
Hamas doesn’t have satellites, so it makes sense they can’t offer proof.
If Israel wants people to believe them in 2023, they need to understand they’ve already burnt up their benefit of doubt.
Bro 1 quick google search and you have a satellite image of the hospital. Ya’ll just don’t wanna believe anything Israel says at this point.
Not OP but my read on this is that OP is suggesting that Israel or the US should have a recording of the rocket being fired that would have been captured by a satellite and could be shared.
Obviously there are images that have been published showing the destruction, but it’s not clear to me how looking at a picture of rubble would help to establish the origin of the rocket fire.
Given how many bombs have been dropped in Gaza (
), it’s easy for me to imagine that the destruction of this Palestinian hospital was due to an errant Israeli bomb, but pretty difficult to imagine that a Hamas soldier with bad aim accidentally took out one of their only hospitals. From the outside, it feels like the burden of proof lies with the side that seems to be trying to flatten Gaza, not the side without access to food, water, electricity, or medical supplies.
Having said that, I sincerely doubt that this will be the last atrocity committed by either side before this is over, so I doubt that we will ever get any evidence that is truly conclusive.
it’s easy for me to imagine that the destruction of this Palestinian hospital was due to an errant Israeli bomb, but pretty difficult to imagine that a Hamas soldier with bad aim accidentally took out one of their only hospitals.
Maybe it’s because your missing context. Depending on the type of rocket fired, Palestine rockets generally fail to leave the Gaza Strip between 5-20% of the time. A small imperfection in the steel of a water pipe may not cause a failure for 100 years of used to transport water. But that same imperfection can easily buckle under the load of sever g’s during rocket launch. Hundreds of people have died in Gaza from Gazan rockets that didn’t make it to target and it’s standard practice for Hamas to blame am Israeli airstrike for the rocket’s failure.
Oh yeah that totally makes sense, and I’m not excluding the possibility that it could have been Hamas. Both sides are involved in some pretty fucked up shit, nobody’s hands are clean here.
In this case we have one side who conducted a hostage raid and slaughtered civilians living in kibbutz (which are essentially the Jewish equivalent to the Amish or Mennonites), started a war as the aggressors, have launched 2-20k rockets of various types at Israel somce the atart of hostilities (widely disputed), has been car bombing people trying to evacuate (and falsely blamed it on an Israeli airstrike), admittedly accidentally bombed a hospital (and falsely blamed it on an Israeli airstrike).
There’s one side here who is clearly more wrong than the other.
Yes…
Google maps is a thing, but Israel and the US has live satellite coverage. I guarantee Israels is pointed in that area
And again One quick google search brings you to satellite pictures of the damage published by Israel (and also by other non biased news sources) Just search for it, please. I understand you have your agenda but come on don’t let it hide truths and evidence.
deleted by creator
I don’t understand. Ya’ll think Israel is gonna burn an intelligence asset they have by making it public just so people who are already convinced by one narrative (because underdogs are always easier to support) have proof of one attack not being their own? They have better use for that intelligence. Like fighting a war.
a’ll think Israel is gonna burn an intelligence asset
Everyone knows they have satellites, it’s not like it’s an informant…
And the resolution of those satellites is literally a state secret. You won’t ever see direct imaging from them being released publicly.
Serious off topic question:
Why do some people work their way down a comment chain replying to the same person multiple times?
Do you really want to have multiple simultaneous conversations with the same person?
Do you just not check the username and not know?
It happens a lot on Lemmy, so I’m genuinely curious why people do it, especially when they do it all within minutes
Have you also considered the crab people ?
Yeah the original claims seemed as likely to be true as all the times that terrorists fought to take credit for disasasters that didn’t involve them. It’s quick easy points in fast moving propaganda campaigns. That being said I have seen this fricking twitter thread of internet sleuths used like 4 times and called different things and we keep passing around the same short clip and the complete nonsense arguments.
No I don’t think anyone can say anything about this other than a hospital in gaza was partially blown up like many others and people are still suffering while aid is being kept at arms length from the victims. That’s the real story and I don’t care who did it until real intelligence has something to say on the matter.
https://twitter.com/GrantSmithEllis/status/1714399186295111815?t=wxkjKFCi8k2oZ0FTiwxV1g&s=19
10-minute video captured by AJArabic around the time the al-Ahli hospital was hit.
As per @Ted55643099:
Explosions on this video: (0:19) hospital. (0:16, 4:25, 4:49) behind and to the left of the hospital. (5:33, 5:56, 9:26, 10:46) behind hospital, most likely the same place. (9:38, 10:51) to the right of the hospital outside of the frame, likely the same place.
Crosspost from a similar thread:
So this here is the current view on the area where supposedly about 500 people died. Also there are allegedly more than 300 wounded.
Questions I personally have:
- where is the rubble and where is the bomb crater?
- why does the building seem undamaged?
- how do you fit 800 people in this parking lot?
Well Israel has dropped more bombs this week alone than the entire Afghan war, so it isn’t obscene to think the few hospitals left standing are overcrowded by the thousands. If OSINT is to be believed, it hit the parking lot and wiped out that many people, its a pretty fucking big parking lot. And if it was Hamas, they do not have as powerful of payloads as Israel, so I would assume they were just too weak to collapse the building.
Also it’s unclear how many people died.
Turns out taking the hamas series of events at face value won’t link up with reality down the line
And too many people where just too happy to jump to conclusions if that conclusion is allowing them to shit on Israel further.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen misinformation being gobbled up so willingly by so many before - the internet was just ready to condemn Israel for whatever they could get their hands on.
And as if one needed proof that Anti-Zionism is just a disguise for Anti-Semitism directly after that claim of Israel being responsible in Berlin people already started spraying Stards of David on houses that jews where living and threw a molotov at a synagogue.
And we needed to reach 2023 to realize terrorists can’t be trusted, heh.
how do you fit 800 people in this parking lot?
have you heard of multi level buildings?
I wonder why 800 people would huddle in one building that’s supposed to be off limits to bombs right now. Really boggles the mind yeah? /s
deleted by creator
So you see a multi level building there? You maybe should cut down on the mushrooms.
Here’s a source explaining what happened since I guess no one taught you keyboard ninjas how to do actual research.
Canon Richard Sewell, the dean of St George’s College in Jerusalem, told the BBC that about 1,000 displaced people were sheltering in the courtyard when it was hit, and about 600 patients and staff were inside the building.
There was, but then it got blown up by a rocket. I suggest the opposite: we all take more mushrooms.
I can see in that video, one of the cars got flipped upside down. Whatever detonated there had a significant blast.
deleted by creator
Once this is backed up by a reputable news source, I’ll believe it. It’s unfortunate but I can’t argue with facts if adequate evidence and vetting is presented. I still hate Israel with every fiber in my body. From the river to the sea.
deleted by creator
Palestinians lie, and the world blames Jews, then the world targets Jews, and when the truth finally comes out, no one apologizes, the hurt and blood cannot be rescinded, because “The Jews deserved it anyway”
To be fair, no one’s blaming “the Jews”. We’re blaming Israel, which is a very different thing.
.
Yes, Israel doesn’t necessarily mean all Israelis. It’s the government that’s fucked up.
within 24h hours after that explosion at the hospital in Berlin there were reported cases of people spraying stars of david on jew’s houses and an incident with a molotov being thrown at a synagogue.
The line between Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism is VERY thin for a lot of people…
Which is why worldwide Jewish population making up .2% is targeted literally everywhere around the world every time Israel defends itself against Hamas. You keep saying this lie, every time it happens, and yet, targeting worldwide Jewry continues to happen every time Israel defends itself. And all the upvoters are like “yeah, we just got a problem with Israel not Jews” and the Jews keeps saying "why are you stabbing us in the street and targeting synagogues when Israel defends itself.
And some asshole like you will say the same thing next time, and so it goes, the eternal cycle. Jews say this is antisemitic, it’s jew bating, it’s threatening, it’s deadly, and the world says actually it’s not.
War crimes are not “defending itself”. There are literally Jews against Israel at this point. Wtf are you talking about? Israel is literally killing people, there’s no way you’re shifting this into the age old Jew hate debate. Hate crimes are happening, but it’s mostly Israel who’s doing them.
Israel lies. Hamas lies. No one apologizes for the Israeli lies either. You know what Palestinians don’t do… Run an apartheid state. Or turn Israel into an open air prison. Israel is the one here with the power to change the situation. Why don’t they?
It’s definitely tragic the attacks that happened. And our hearts go out to all of those families. Why didn’t any Israelis think about that over the years for the tens of thousands of Palestinians killed in their governments genocidal apartheid?
Israel is with the power to change the situation? Oh really? What could Israel could possibly do do have peace in the region? Besides going “okay we’re leaving bye have tel aviv and jerusalem” nothing could be done to stop the palestinian aggression. Nothing, and they proved that time and time again. Israel has nothing to do in the situation except prevent more attacks on it.
Eject Netanyahu and allies from the government. They’re partially responsible for hamas. Open up Palestine, focus a concerted effort on improving their material conditions and future prospects. People who believe they have equity in a system they perceive as fair and just. Typically don’t seek to destroy it or those they associate with it. Stop bulldozing their homes and stealing their land. Doesn’t matter who started it. It still doesn’t justify what the Israeli government has done.
Israel has everything to do with the situation. A blind hyperpartisan apologist like yourself just could never admit that.
Wtf is “open sourced intelligence”? Is it another name for “armchair internet sleuths”?
There is literally a definition in the article…
Open-Source Intelligence (OSINT) is defined as intelligence produced by collecting, evaluating and analysing publicly available information.
So like when Reddit found the Boston Bomber, gotcha.
I’ll take this with a grain of salt.
Not really, because even some news stations now access this public available data and checked it with their sources. Good example would be Bucha where those sources were used to verify the crimes that happend there. But yeah of course you always need a trustful source which uses this data.
Good starting point is to go to official news pages and avoid social media like twitter, Reddit or even lemmy until those news is proven.
Big fucking difference but sure if it’s not an individual hired directly by some govt it must be akin to a redditor!
Give me a fuckin break
Example of the power of OSINT: https://www.isdglobal.org/digital_dispatches/jan-6-series-how-osint-powered-the-largest-criminal-investigation-in-us-history/
Law enforcement also used geofence data (obtained via search warrant) and flight records to place her at the Capitol riot. Indeed, charging documents show that many of the January 6 defendants were identified by law enforcement using these triangulation methods — largely based on OSINT — to piece together proof that they were involved. The challenge of the reliability of OSINT data was able to be overcome through the large amount of digital evidence available.
Have you actually ready any of it yourself? Or are you just passing armchair judgement based solely on headlines?
Just because you don’t understand doesn’t mean it’s all bullshit.
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
It’s genuine intel but needs to be verified thoroughly. I will believe it once it hits reputable news sources.
