So what? I was not talking about situations where there is vendor lock-in. I needed Windows for Photoshop in the past, I’m not that dumb.
I’m talking specifically about stuff like ads, privacy, unremovable bloatware, forced logins and such. And I stand by what I said: Linux by its very nature will not have these issues. And its very reasonable for people to recommend it in face of those.
No, not really. If you know how to configure Windows, you don’t deal with ads, forced defaults, privacy issues.
My Windows 11 install contains no Edge, no Microsoft update, no ads, no telemetry, and so on. I can set it up in a new computer in less than 15 minutes, too.
If you use Windows you know they will re-enable that on the next update, after you took your time turning the garbage off. That was the final drop in the bucket for me to switch away from Windows some years ago actually.
you now they will re-enable that on the next update
I have my own update procedure that I do periodically. I do not rely on Windows Update and nothing gets “re enabled”. Though once I did use Windows Update and nothing came back, so you’re either mistaken or if it actually happened it was one specific update.
And here’s the thing, Ubuntu broke because I updated my system and it created a dependency conflict. You can use Arch, but then you need a lot of time and knowledge to tweak it and make it work - well, if I need that time and knowledge, why not apply it to Windows instead and get perfect software compatibility?
I have 4 computers at home. 3 run Linux. I don’t have “a dog in this fight” but I find Lemmy’s “Windows bad, Linux perfect” instance on every single conversation simply immature, filled with lies and exaggerations, and honestly, part of the reason why I don’t interact with the Linux community as often as I could, even to provide help.
If a user goes on Lemmy and says anything positive about Windows - or explains why they do indeed need Windows and not Linux - they get downvoted to the point of being removed from the conversation.
What really bothers me is simping for corporations. I’ve had Windows reset my stuff multiple times to the point I had a script to set it up every update. At this point I decided it would be less work to switch to an OS that would not do this. You said yourself you need a whole procedure, not because the system itself is bad, but because of bullshit they tack on top of it.
I understand Linux will not play nice on all hardware but my Ubuntu install has been perfect for 6 years now (through changing motherboards and cloning to another disk).
I absolutely never said Windows is 100% bad and nobody should use it and Linux is completely perfect. I’ve even been saying the opposite on this thread. I needed to use it at many points.
But if you want to get rid of ads, bullshit like the OP article, Linux is the only sane solution and I stand by it, it is much better to learn a new system than constantly deal with issues on another just because it is what you are used to.
It’s good, but you can’t know for sure if you removed all bloatware. Also if you install updates you can easily miss newly added ones.
Windows is like Reddit. There is more content and users, but we use Lemmy for a reason. So I’m not surprised that many people joke about GNU/Linux in this thread. GNU/Linux is not for everyone, but so do Lemmy.
Are you sure it has no telemetry? The only way I can think to be sure would be to block it in your router. Lots of software still does telemetry even if you try to disable it. There was a researcher a while back who found out that iOS sends in telemetry even if you explicitly disable it. He had to basically MITM his own phone and watch all the packets in Wireshark, but he figured out it was sending telemetry even with all the telemetry options disabled.
All components that would collect data are removed - my computer doesn’t even connect to Microsoft’s clock syncing server. That being said, my entire network uses NextDNS so I can also tell (and possibly block) all remote connections to servers I disapprove of.
Keep in mind, I’m not talking about using the settings in the installer or the control panel that allow you to “disable telemetry” I mean those components simply do not exist in my system, I have a custom install
Interesting! What if it connects to a server by IP without using DNS? Do you have a way to track that?
My concern would be that without diasssembling all of the components, isn’t it impossible to know which pieces have telemetry? For example, on iPhone, some of the core OS UI elements have telemetry built-in to keep track of which elements are displayed, selected, etc. And, based on research, some of that telemetry stays active even when you “disable it.” Based on that, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Control Panel or Device Manager has telemetry built-in. I know PowerShell has telemetry, at least, since that’s documented.
I guess it would be possible to disassemble and identify which OS pieces access the networking APIs. Is that what you’ve done? I had a friend who was working on something like that one time to hone his disassembly skills. I’m not sure what you’d do if the kernel itself has telemetry. I guess you could patch it out, but that feels like an uphill battle.
Same. I recently built a new machine and considered putting win10 on it instead of 11 due to all the complaints I’ve read. Instead, I just went with 11 to give it a try. After install it took me about an hour, but I had all recommendations, ads, and other annoyances turned off. After that setup, I’ve really liked the OS. Everything just works. Plug in new hardware and it just works. Download some random new software and it just works.
I say this as a software engineer that works with Linux systems daily.
For my personal use, I want my pc to just work. I spend enough time configuring and making things work at my job, I want my home pc to be no hassle and to work with everything I throw at it.
it must be impprsnt if you’re prioritizing it over yet i software freedom
Yes, getting machines that cost over ten thousand dollars and are crucial for research are indeed more important than philosophical attachment to Linux.
But hey, if “software freedom” is so important to you, I’m curious to see how you disabled the mandatory proprietary management engine inside your CPU. And how about flashing that motherboard BIOS with open firmware? Which BIOS recorder chip did you use? Man, it must be so tiresome only using websites whose servers open source their code…
Oh, wait, no, you too use proprietary software on a daily basis. It’s just that the argument only works when criticizing somebody else’s needs right? Gotcha.
Hopefully a reinstall is the most you ever need and there is no chance Microsoft would ever happen to make changes that shaft you.
Software freedom is about being in control over your own computing. If being in control of your research and the results is important then I think it should be important to you too.
I consider myself like a smoker telling you smoking causes cancer in regards to my use of proprietary software. I am proud of the efforts I’ve made over the years to reduce using proprietary software.
Can’t be in control of your own computing if you can’t do your computing at all. From their responses, it’s clear that Linux is not supported for hardware essential to their workflow. How is this difficult to understand?
There is no misunderstanding there. For free software alternatives to be created you need people to want it and contribute to creating it (not just software). It’s not obvious to me they lament the lack of free software alternatives and their lack of control over their important computing.
I can take a quick walk over my bio lab and find about 6 different machines whose software require Windows.
Some people work, and they care about their work being done, not spending a week masturbating over tiling window managers.
So what? I was not talking about situations where there is vendor lock-in. I needed Windows for Photoshop in the past, I’m not that dumb.
I’m talking specifically about stuff like ads, privacy, unremovable bloatware, forced logins and such. And I stand by what I said: Linux by its very nature will not have these issues. And its very reasonable for people to recommend it in face of those.
No, not really. If you know how to configure Windows, you don’t deal with ads, forced defaults, privacy issues.
My Windows 11 install contains no Edge, no Microsoft update, no ads, no telemetry, and so on. I can set it up in a new computer in less than 15 minutes, too.
There’s no argument here.
If you use Windows you know they will re-enable that on the next update, after you took your time turning the garbage off. That was the final drop in the bucket for me to switch away from Windows some years ago actually.
I have my own update procedure that I do periodically. I do not rely on Windows Update and nothing gets “re enabled”. Though once I did use Windows Update and nothing came back, so you’re either mistaken or if it actually happened it was one specific update.
And here’s the thing, Ubuntu broke because I updated my system and it created a dependency conflict. You can use Arch, but then you need a lot of time and knowledge to tweak it and make it work - well, if I need that time and knowledge, why not apply it to Windows instead and get perfect software compatibility?
I have 4 computers at home. 3 run Linux. I don’t have “a dog in this fight” but I find Lemmy’s “Windows bad, Linux perfect” instance on every single conversation simply immature, filled with lies and exaggerations, and honestly, part of the reason why I don’t interact with the Linux community as often as I could, even to provide help.
If a user goes on Lemmy and says anything positive about Windows - or explains why they do indeed need Windows and not Linux - they get downvoted to the point of being removed from the conversation.
What really bothers me is simping for corporations. I’ve had Windows reset my stuff multiple times to the point I had a script to set it up every update. At this point I decided it would be less work to switch to an OS that would not do this. You said yourself you need a whole procedure, not because the system itself is bad, but because of bullshit they tack on top of it.
I understand Linux will not play nice on all hardware but my Ubuntu install has been perfect for 6 years now (through changing motherboards and cloning to another disk).
I absolutely never said Windows is 100% bad and nobody should use it and Linux is completely perfect. I’ve even been saying the opposite on this thread. I needed to use it at many points.
But if you want to get rid of ads, bullshit like the OP article, Linux is the only sane solution and I stand by it, it is much better to learn a new system than constantly deal with issues on another just because it is what you are used to.
It’s good, but you can’t know for sure if you removed all bloatware. Also if you install updates you can easily miss newly added ones.
Windows is like Reddit. There is more content and users, but we use Lemmy for a reason. So I’m not surprised that many people joke about GNU/Linux in this thread. GNU/Linux is not for everyone, but so do Lemmy.
Are you sure it has no telemetry? The only way I can think to be sure would be to block it in your router. Lots of software still does telemetry even if you try to disable it. There was a researcher a while back who found out that iOS sends in telemetry even if you explicitly disable it. He had to basically MITM his own phone and watch all the packets in Wireshark, but he figured out it was sending telemetry even with all the telemetry options disabled.
All components that would collect data are removed - my computer doesn’t even connect to Microsoft’s clock syncing server. That being said, my entire network uses NextDNS so I can also tell (and possibly block) all remote connections to servers I disapprove of.
Keep in mind, I’m not talking about using the settings in the installer or the control panel that allow you to “disable telemetry” I mean those components simply do not exist in my system, I have a custom install
Interesting! What if it connects to a server by IP without using DNS? Do you have a way to track that?
My concern would be that without diasssembling all of the components, isn’t it impossible to know which pieces have telemetry? For example, on iPhone, some of the core OS UI elements have telemetry built-in to keep track of which elements are displayed, selected, etc. And, based on research, some of that telemetry stays active even when you “disable it.” Based on that, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Control Panel or Device Manager has telemetry built-in. I know PowerShell has telemetry, at least, since that’s documented.
I guess it would be possible to disassemble and identify which OS pieces access the networking APIs. Is that what you’ve done? I had a friend who was working on something like that one time to hone his disassembly skills. I’m not sure what you’d do if the kernel itself has telemetry. I guess you could patch it out, but that feels like an uphill battle.
Same. I recently built a new machine and considered putting win10 on it instead of 11 due to all the complaints I’ve read. Instead, I just went with 11 to give it a try. After install it took me about an hour, but I had all recommendations, ads, and other annoyances turned off. After that setup, I’ve really liked the OS. Everything just works. Plug in new hardware and it just works. Download some random new software and it just works.
I say this as a software engineer that works with Linux systems daily.
For my personal use, I want my pc to just work. I spend enough time configuring and making things work at my job, I want my home pc to be no hassle and to work with everything I throw at it.
For this, windows is, by far, the best.
Photoshop works in Fedora ;)
I got it to work on Ubuntu back then, but it was annoying as hell.
Why Fedora exactly? Genuinely curious!
I hope you’ve got backup solution if Windows ever prevents you from working.
It must be important if you’re prioritizing it over your software freedom…
Reinstalling Windows on another machine?
Yes, getting machines that cost over ten thousand dollars and are crucial for research are indeed more important than philosophical attachment to Linux.
But hey, if “software freedom” is so important to you, I’m curious to see how you disabled the mandatory proprietary management engine inside your CPU. And how about flashing that motherboard BIOS with open firmware? Which BIOS recorder chip did you use? Man, it must be so tiresome only using websites whose servers open source their code…
Oh, wait, no, you too use proprietary software on a daily basis. It’s just that the argument only works when criticizing somebody else’s needs right? Gotcha.
Hopefully a reinstall is the most you ever need and there is no chance Microsoft would ever happen to make changes that shaft you.
Software freedom is about being in control over your own computing. If being in control of your research and the results is important then I think it should be important to you too.
I consider myself like a smoker telling you smoking causes cancer in regards to my use of proprietary software. I am proud of the efforts I’ve made over the years to reduce using proprietary software.
Can’t be in control of your own computing if you can’t do your computing at all. From their responses, it’s clear that Linux is not supported for hardware essential to their workflow. How is this difficult to understand?
There is no misunderstanding there. For free software alternatives to be created you need people to want it and contribute to creating it (not just software). It’s not obvious to me they lament the lack of free software alternatives and their lack of control over their important computing.