Hendersons whole legacy was tarnished by this, that’s crazy
No, no it wasn’t.
Sincerely, a Liverpool fan who enjoyed watching Henderson captain us to the PL & CL.
Yes, yes it was
Sincerely, a gay liverpool fan who gained confidence in knowing our captain supported people like me, just for it to turn out to be a publicity move all along.
Boo hoo.
It’s not Jordan Henderson’s job to make sure your feelings aren’t hurt.
He started his international career by being booed by the fans and he will finish it the same way
Only thing he supports is money.
like every footballer on earth…
I didn’t realise the Northern Premier League (Tier 7) was considered professional.
It just goes to show that most ‘holier than thou’ people are just virtue signalling twats.
That’s such a stupid conclusion
Many people do have actual convictions you know
The thing thats not right is the value of his wage comes from being in that country and not playing football. He could still earn more than enough money and not have to move to a religious sandy shithole.
The only thing i question is his basic decision making skills.
‘holier than thou’ is reddit specialty
I think it is a good thing to show solidarity, be passionate about a cause or causes and speak up about it.
I don’t think the language you’re using is helpful here, seems like a very cynical worldview. Just because Jordan Henderson sold out his beliefs for a bit of cash doesn’t mean that everyone who cares about social causes is a “virtue signalling twt” and it’s unhelpful to tarnish people with that brush.
Just my two cents on the matter seeing as you gave yours
Virtue signalling is a term that’s seldom used correctly or in good faith. Most of the time people do actually care about the virtues they spout.
It’s only really used by people who want to defend themselves from fair criticism because “everyone secretly thinks like them”
This is the line that must infuriates me, Henderson’s given people like you all the ammunition you need to disparage any celebrity speaking up for a cause. He hasn’t just tarnished his own reputation, he’s tarnished everyone’s.
Why most? This is just one guy, no need to judge everyone for it. I’m sure there are players who turned down more money because they were morally against Sauid, but we’ll never hear about those people
This.
It’s extremely easy to defend someone or something when you’ve got nothing to lose. Henderson had a lot to gain actually.
He basically went from being rich to being slightly more rich. I don’t think he increases his quality of life much.
The best part is how he tries to justify it, like him being in Saudi will make any sort of difference. Not only is he a man who’s word have no value whatsoever… He’s probably also has an exaggerated sense of self worth( I think a lot of celebrities would have ).
It’s extremely easy to defend someone or something when you’ve got nothing to lose.
When making a ham and eggs breakfast, the chicken is involved but the pig is fully commited
regarding LGBT, henderson was involved
I think it will make small, negative difference. Saudi opinion is we are a bunch hypocritical whores who will abandon any principle if they throw enough money at us. Henderson is now prime example.
It seems like he’s not going to jeopardise generational wealth over virtue signalling
There was no jeopardy involved, he already had generational wealth and still would have earned millions in England.
He was a Liverpool footballer for 10-12 years, he’s already got generational wealth, the money he’s on now just guarantees his grandkids are gonna be assholes
he’s not going to jeopardise generational wealth over virtue signalling
he could have just had some actual virtue
Never had if he chose the bag over what he believes in… Question we should ask is if Jake Daniels would go earn the bag at Saudi rather than rotting at a league one bench
Idiot
Question we should ask is if Jake Daniels would go earn the bag at Saudi rather than rotting at a league one bench
I think Jake, an openly gay man, might have a couple issues going to the Saudi league to be honest
Foreigners/expats have different rules in saudi…everyone knows this, he’ll be alright if he doesn’t make a big fuss about being gay
he’ll be alright if he doesn’t make a big fuss about being gay
And you see the problem with what you said, right?
he’ll be alright if he’s just not himself.
Cool cool fr
“He’ll be alright if he suppresses an entire part of his identity to appease bigots”
Rich guy insincerely takes up moral/political stance which is PR friendly, commercially safe, and unradical.
Tale as old as time.
My only surprise is people still surprised pickachu face with the same rinse and repeat marketing strategy.
How can Jake not understand that Jordan has obviously done this in order to promote LGBT rights. What a hero!
celebs should never ever be taken seriously when it comes to any other matter than the one they actually excel at, be it football or acting etc.
No I dont want a fucking actor, raised by actors, isolated from society telling me how to vote or what to think about economics. Same goes for footballers. These people are not normal in any sense of the word nor do they have any understanding of the world they live in so sheltered.
This isn’t generally true of footballers, lots of them come from normal working class families and have an idea of what life is like for average people.
See Marcus Rashford for one, he is so passionate about tacking poverty because he lived through it, and he isn’t an anomaly, there are so many footballers that grew up in rough circumstances past and present.
On the other hand they’ve pretty much all been in professional football from their teens and not had to deal with any of these things in adult life first hand.
And that’s why I said they have an idea of what life is like for the average person i.e. their parents and families. which is a lot more than what the original commenter was giving them credit for.
I generally agree with you but just playing devil’s advocate, I think Rashford used his voice and position well to make good effective change.
Yes but his message was ‘feed hungry children’ not exactly a complex political or economic argument like the OP mentioned.
Rashford has also stopped doing most of that since he changed his PR agency.
I agree, but I also think their is an astronomical difference between “Saying something” and “Doing something”.
I generally agree with you but just playing devil’s advocate, I think Rashford used his voice and position well to make good effective change.
I mean… until pretty recently we’d have said the same about Jordan Henderson…
There’s definitely positive examples yes. But by golly are they rare and mostly something we can only judge on the surface. Geniunely appreciate Rashys work a lot but I’m saddened he even has to do that level of advocating for such a no brainer
Yeah you’d think starving children = bad is a fairly easy position for all of us to get behind.
But Tories gonna Tory.
Tories: “We have to leave the EU to take care of our own.”
Starving British kids: “So does that mean we’ll finally have food?”
Tories: “Eww, no, fuck off.”
When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist. - Hélder Câmara
Mom can I have Brexit?
To provide food for starving children?
Yeeeees
Actually dismantles NHS like a boss
Just when I think the rage I have over Brexit subsides this image brings it right back. Thank you very much
Entire leave campaign should be in prison for treason. It wasn’t up for debate whether the country would be worse off economically, it was a fact, one which every credible economist confirmed.
This is hugely simplistic and you don’t understand the issue. It’s more about the level of control that a government has over the people and the liberties offered to them
Depends if you think it’s the government’s job to feed kids or their parents. 13 years of Labour government seemed to think it was the latter. As did Labour and SNP administrations in Wales and Scotland until they saw opportunities to look good.
Wasn’t there a Tory who grew up on free lunches and decided to remove the ladder once he reached the top?
Several.
It’s because they’re cunts.
That’s why university fees exist aswell.
There’s a difference between philanthropic work and speaking about topics you shouldn’t. Rashford was philanthropic work while Brad Pitt on climate change is just nonsense.
I don’t even mean it as banter, but Marcus Rashford excels at Philanthropy as much as he does Football. No devil’s advocate about it.
I’d listen to Peter Cech’s opinion on hockey and drumming. You can be knowledgeable in more than one field.
You can be knowledgeable in more than one field
You can, but you need to prove it by showing your know knowledge in said field. In that case, you listen to someone talking about hockey that happens to be a successful footballer, not because he’s a successful footballer
I don’t know Cech outside of football, but I’m assuming the reason you and others (in particular, hockey people and drummers) listen to him on those topics and found it to make sense. Yes, without him being a successful footballer you’d never heard about him, but he still needed to prove himself on that
Then you also have the obvious that having certain issues in some issues raises your commercial value to a degree that hockey and drumming don’t
Cech is a semi professional hockey player and an accomplished drummer
There you have it, you listen to him on those topics because of that. His famous because of his football merits but his opinions on those topics matter because of what you pointed out
I’d argue there’s no devil’s advocate about celebs actually putting money towards good causes, compared to people just saying words to please the currently politically approved positon.
Will make to remember that… until a celebrity shares my view on any topic
“Excel” is an overstatement for Jordan Henderson. Dude was my team’s captain for 10 years but I couldn’t resist
I partly disagree with this.
Footballers are ordinary people like you and me and therefore their opinions on anything have as much value as any. Anyone can be passionate about something regardless of their job, status or wealth.
Whether you choose to value their individual opinion is up to you but to blanket disregard something someone who isn’t an expert in is wrong imo.
You should generally be coming at it the other way and valuing an experts opinion in higher regard.
Fully agree with you. Rashford’s work in particular showed how public figures can enact real change around bigger issues beyond football.
If anything, Henderson’s situation highlights how fine the line is between activisim and virtue signaling.
Its easy to put out a statement in support of something with nothing on the line. If Hendo truly cared, he wouldnt have taken the job.
I have family members that are gay, and I would never get in bed with Saudi as it would destroy my relationship with them. Having said that, Ive never had millions waved in front of my face, so who knows if I would really stick by my morals.
I think footballers can be an exception because usually they’re people who were raised in a working class family and have seen their family struggle, so they usually will have a bit of life experience. Different from all the nepo-babies in the music and film industry
But yet they have immense influence and use it to try and take serious stances, sometimes with success. I agree with you they’re terrible role models but the problem is they don’t know how to shut up about things they’re clueless about
I’d normally agree however a lot of footballers don’t come from prestigious backgrounds. Jordan or certainly a lot of his colleagues would come from a hugely diverse background. The one area he could have a voice is diversity. He championed a positive stance for many years and this move showed the world his diversity values were paper bill then.
Agree. Fans (peasants) wants celebrities to stand up for them, no matter what the political view is, and when they mess up they get all mad. No shit, theyre celebrities. Not politicians or activists.
You say this as though politicians and activists represent the best interests of the public
That’s why politicians are held accountable or should be held accountable and take responsibility or judged for their actions/beliefs.
That is the basic notion of politics. Politicians don’t have, should be allowed to have, or not be judged when they do have a free will when it cones to how they represent publics interests.
Unfortunately most political spheres are corrupt, to varying degrees.
Mhh
But imagine growing up as a queer Liverpool fan from Liverpool from a city where the rest of the country/media and politicians ostracise us from everyone and don’t welcome us anyways. And then imagine two of the only men you have been able to trust and idolise throughout your life who have always said they support you and will stand up for you just abandoning you for money.
This is the problem with pushing sportspeople into being “societal” role models. He’s made a decision for his personal gain, it’s not really anyone’s business regardless of what people think. I think Hendo is a complete hypocrite for going, but whatever. It’s his choice. Why should he be held to a higher standard than anyone else going to work in Saudi or other gulf states?
The issue is that he is the one set the higher standard for himself the moment he started advocating for LGBT
No matter what people on Reddit say, this guy’s views are important. He is a gay footballer, he isn’t just a gay fan who can justify it away because they support Liverpool or England. He has experiences on the pitch, he’s heard the vitriol that fans come out with and there stood Henderson. A man who decided to become a face of LGBTQ inclusion in football, who subsequently abandoned it all for a big ol’ bag of cash.
If he’s saying it was disappointing it must be disappointing for so many players who aren’t out yet. I’m a member of the community and it does really fucking suck to see good representation disappear like it never mattered.
Good on Jake for having the guts to talk about it, even when he’s going to get some horrible comments about his identity in return. Henderson has done damage to the progression of inclusion in football full stop, fuck, I’d argue EA managed to do more to raise awareness with including women’s players in FUT who are often queer too and they’re solely motivated by money.
Man could have had both, now nobody will touch him with a bargepole post retirement.
You couldn’t have said it any better. There’s probably players out there who wanted to come out and the support of players like Henderson would have been encouraging, but now that he’s done this what are those players going to think? That their peers supporting them are actually just doing it for money and don’t care at all about you or your struggles? I hope it doesn’t make those considering coming out to change their minds.
It will impact them 100%. Young gay players have no role models to look up to really, they need allies to communicate that hate is unacceptable. Henderson did that and undid it just as quickly. I don’t think people clock that a gay footballer will have the same role models as a straight one purely because there is nobody else so having that extra bit of support, to say “the England captain supports me and others like me”… is so important to younger kids.
Jake will hopefully have a decent little career and be a role model for others too, but that’s years down the line now. Hope he’s doing okay, lad is only 18. Second year of college age, lot to deal with and speaking to the BBC is very brave.
Yeah to come out at such a young age in the current football environment is insane, hopefully it inspires the next generation.
It is, but I still think the fact he’s the only one, and barely a pro, and the last one killed himself over it before I was even born, is a huge problem. As in a how tf are we throwing a high horse over this, level of huge.
If I was the “Saudi PR team” I’d be chucking the bag and another bag but gold-plated at this bloke, manage to sign him and it’s suddenly 🇸🇦1-0🏴 for openly-gay pro players in the leagues.
He very well may not end up being a professional footballer. He’s famous for being gay. He’s 18, and has five appearances in the 7th Tier of the football pyramid.
Let’s say he is released (and the incredible backlash Blackpool will get despite treating him the same as all other players who don’t have the required talent to get a contract, and aren’t owed a living based on their identity or politics). What then? He’s going to be some sort of Brooklyn Beckham figure getting signed for PR unless he concentrates on his football and pushes on.
What’s your point? Do you think he doesn’t realize he has to work hard? Do you think he wants to be treated any differently?
This is bullshit. Colin Martin was the first openly gay player to play in any top division football league. He played for The Loons in the MLS, who I am a supporter of. When he came out we all loved him. I’m gay and so he became a favorite of mine. But he wasn’t good enough to keep playing and was eventually released by the club. The Loons did not receive any backlash for the decision
You’ve fabricated a scenario in your head that has no basis in reality
What a strange comment.
Why does any of this matter?
And no, I really doubt Blackpool will get a bad reputation for releasing him if it came to that, what do you think of the LGBTQ community if that’s your anticipated reaction? Sure, maybe some people will be disappointed that he might not make it but they’re not going to label the football club homophobic, especially considering he’s one of the very few openly gay footballers!
If anything he’d praise Blackpool for making him comfortable enough to reveal it.
No need to look for something that isn’t there, or to make a point that’s wholly irrelevant to the wider conversation.
Thanks though
It doesn’t, just as his opinion doesn’t matter.
But what’s strange is seeing thousands of people obsessed over a 17 year olds sex life. There’s a word for people who sexualise children, I believe.
Thanks though.
Preach it sister 🙌🏻
If he hadn’t have said a word about the LGBT community and then fucked off to Saudi, obvs the impact would be considerably lessened. But don’t use our community as a platform to get brownie points when you truly couldn’t give a shit either way
I’m queer myself and it feels like famous people only support us when it’s convenient for them, and good for PR. So yeah disappointing af
It’s the reaction that’s the problem. There will be loads of gay footballers out there, but I imagine most of them just want to live their lives. They want to be known as themselves and not just based on one minor characteristic (sexual identity). Anyone who comes out just becomes the “gay footballer”.
This lad is the perfect example. If he wasn’t gay none of us would know or care who he was. This sort of reaction undermines the wider cause and makes it less likely for the more prominent footballers to come out.
Kind of agree, but feel like that problem goes away once a handful have come out.
It’s a double-edge sword, in order to truly live as a gay player without anyone caring, a few are gonna have to go through being one and ppl caring about it.
Henderson could have stayed at Liverpool, less game time but become a mentor, done more charity work etc and cement himself as a Liverpool legend.
Instead he threw it all away to play in front of 800 people, lose all good will, and I guess make bank. Hope that’s worth your legacy being tarnished.
Dude could have gone anywhere else and it would have been better.
I actually think Liverpool wanted him gone and encouraged it. FFP means that £12m is pure profit and it got his large wages off the books.
Club upper management, almost certainly
Klopp would have been happy for him to stay, fans too - if he accepted the much reduced role. Last season made it clear he was done as a first team player for us.
Unfortunately Southgate didn’t get the memo.
Henderson isn’t going to be a first teamer for England either. Dressing room leader and utility player in midfield, who knows his system very well, and he trusts to be of value in his final tournament.
Honestly 12m for an aging Henderson is a decent fee. Liverpool made the right call taking the money on offer.
At the end of the day, Henderson decided to go when he had every chance to turn them down
As Liverpool fan… We absolutely did, it came probably a year sooner than we anticipated, as we wouldn’t have expected to let Henderson, Milner and Fabinho go all in one summer but the midfield was looking tired and the wages were high, a revamp was needed, and getting rid of him helped that. If you want to be successful you can’t be too sentimental and our ownership knows this.
He could have always renegotiated his contract to a lower one and then he’d become an absolute legend, while being repaied over the years as a club embassador that does nothing
There were definitely alternatives, he chose to make a bank which wouldn’t be a problem if he didn’t use some social issues for PR earlier
The club wanted him gone three years ago, Klopp stepped in a demanded an extension for him.
The only legacy he will now leave is one of hypocrisy.
And that is the worst part.
Give it 5 years mate and he’s a Liverpool legend still and everyone has forgotten this,
I mean if you spoke to about 90% of Liverpool fans IRL I don’t think they give a shit either
but people on the internet told me what to think.
What about the fans at Wembley booing Henderson?
Reddit isn’t reflective of real life
I mean neither are the few people you’ll talk to irl, your experience will likely be different to mine.
I have a fairly significant amount of “real” friends who share the opinion on Henderson that is seen on Reddit.
Your real life isn’t everyone’s real life.
And how about the England fans at Wembley booing Henderson, they not real?
He captained Liverpool to the first title in 30 yrs and played for more than 10 yrs. In terms of playing career he is a legend
I imagine that’s because those 90% of fans never gave a shit about lgbt people anyways
Is it hypocrisy if he invests all the Saudi money into LGBT? He obviously won’t, but let’s say he did.
Every ideology has its price
The 800 was kind of an outlier…
That said, his clubs average home attendance is 7900, in a stadium that holds 35,000
But 9 of the 18 teams are averaging below 5k
And Hendo’s side are now 7th in the league and got knocked out of the cup.
He made his bed…
They wanted him gone. He himself said he didn’t feel wanted in Liverpool, you guys underestimate how that influences your decisions, I will agree to cut my salary in half and move to a place where I feel valued as opposed to remaining in a place that doesn’t want me … now imagine both feeling valued and getting paid five times more money … it’s an easy decision.
I’m a Liverpool fan and Hendo will forever be a legend regardless of him going to Saudi, He has done more for his community than any of us will ever do regardless of him playing in Saudi, Many of us have family and friends working and living in the middle east and I doubt they get tarred and feathered like they are trying to do to Hendo. YNWA
He didn’t throw away his legacy, no matter what he was the Captain to finally win the prem in over 30 years plus the captain when we won basically everything else during a amazing revival of the team. No one looks down on Stevie for playing in the US or Drogba for playing in China
And all those money doesn’t even made a different
Like so his grand grand grand children get an extra yacht or two now?
Or he could have gone to another premier league team, like the older Milner did. West Ham would have been perfect.
He didn’t throw it all away.
He’s already a Liverpool legend regardless. He captained the team to the first league title in 30 years and a CL title as well.
He’s getting playing time and the bag in Saudi Arabia. Can’t blame him.
Are Liverpool fans not singing about Steven Gerrard any more?
Are Liverpool fans not singing about Steven Gerrard any more?
Did Steven Gerrard make a big show of supporting LGBT and then fuck off to Saudia Arabia for money?
No?
Okay, then your comparison is pointless.
Do you see your logic? Henderson is a worse person than Gerrard even though they are doing the same thing because Henderson spoke up for gay people in this country and Gerrard didn’t.
So Tottenham fans should like Sol Campbell more than other Arsenal players because he played for Tottenham first. That’s also a great logic
Thats…not my logic.
Gerrard only physically assaulted someone and sucks up to organised crime.
But did he come out against violence and organised crime BEFORE he did those things?
I never claimed he wasn’t a dick. I claimed comparisons to Henderson were erroneous.
The comparison holds, Gerrard’s reputation is fine despite his ties to organised crime and his own historic offence(s).
Henderson’s hypocrisy vis-a-vis Saudi Arabia does not outweigh that in most people’s estimation.
And if you think insincerely milking a bit of positive PR is worse than assaulting someone, then you need to get out more.
The comparison doesn’t hold. I’ve already explained why. “Worse” doesn’t come into it. It’s not relevant to why the comparison is awful.
“Person says A is a terrible thing and then does A.”
“Person says nothing public about B and then does B.”
I shouldn’t have to break it down that basic for you but apparently, you don’t get it unless I do.
“Are Liverpool fans not singing about Steven Gerrard any more?” was the qoute. The inference being that gerrard did bad things and is still a hero so why isn’t Henderson? For the reason I just explained.
It’s a terrible, terrible comparison.
But Henderson hasn’t done ‘A’. He’s just sold out to people who do ‘A’.
Whereas Gerrard has done ‘B’. Which is bad regardless of whether or not he’s publicly denounced it previously. Because organised crime and physically attacking people is bad by default.
That’s the comparison. Gerrard’s reputation is intact because barely anyone gives a shit about the moral dimension of his character. By this same measure, Henderson’s will be fine also.
Your logic is astoundingly moronic. It’s like saying Adam Johnson never spoke out against pumping kids so doesn’t belong in the same conversation as Henderson.
Most people in real life don’t give a shit that he spoke up about gay rights than went off to Saudi Arabia. He’s still going to be considered a legend by most Liverpool fans, regardless of whatever Reddit thinks.
I believe Steven Gerrard has now indeed “fucked off to Saudi Arabia for money” so I guess his only merit is that he didn’t support LGBTQ causes? That makes him better than Henderson?
If you’re promoting LGBTQ and calling yourself a supporter, then the first opportunity you get are happy to fuck off to a country where you can be killed for being gay then you very clearly do not care at all about the cause you claim to champion. That’s the issue people have with him, he never gave a shit at all but decided to use the gay community for some good PR and then was happy to throw them away as soon as someone offered him more money.
Can blame him.
Football has never had as much fanatical support by people who have access to info at their fingertips in an era where everything is so well documented. Time will tell how this generation of players will be remembered, but players from 10-15 years ago are remembered as snakes and these sentiments get passed along on places like reddit where people of many ages talk shit about footy. Will be interesting to see how someone who should be a club legend will be remembered in 20 years.
Dude I doubt people will be talking about this in 2 years let alone 15.
So many players are selling out for oil money, including Messi and Ronaldo that it’s not going to care about specific individuals. That’s sportswashing for ya
And he didn’t just “leave”. He basically ran out the door. It was all over so fast.
I hope it’s not worth it and he regrets it for the rest of his life. What a shame.
Why would it tarnish his Legacy as a Footballer. Players play in all sorts of leagues and places. Going to play for a Saudi club doesn’t mean he wants all the Homosexuals banned or shunned. I mean do People check where did the Gas they fill in their Vehicles come from and boycott a petrol pump because the product came from a Saudi Oil field ? Playing in the EPL doesn’t mean that the Players love Monarchy or support UK’ govt policies… Are all Newcastle players homophobic and/or support the Saudi bombings of Yemen?
Well David Beckham was in Qatar’s backpocket for sponsoring tourism-- even with their egregious human right record. Sporting figures are not acting out of altruism or causes, they are like any other professional whose talent lies in playing football and getting paid a pretty penny for doing so. I’m confident that most players are apolitical (and taking the knee was probably promoted by the EPL rather than a collective action by players).
why is football being mixed with other things? I think the only problem that football should be involved is rasicm , any other politics should not be mingled with football, it’s my opinion nobody should take offence
Such bullshit, if you’re gay you’re gay, you don’t need Jordan Henderson or anyone to be a martyr for you. Henderson has no interest in you or your life, only for himself. Be your own hero and don’t rely on celebrities or footballers to speak on your behalf. 99% of them are fucking idiots anyway.
