We need more good suicidal guys with guns to stop bad suicidal guys with guns.
Checking in sir! /S
Oof
Another example of:
A gun is way more likely to be used on a member of your household than in defence of that household.
Owning Guns Puts People in Your Home at Greater Risk of Being Killed, New Study Shows
The Myth Behind Defensive Gun Ownership
People in homes with handguns more likely to be shot dead, major study finds
I got downvoted real bad when I pointed this out to someone who said “making guns illegal just takes them away from people who need to defend themselves.”
The defense excuse of gun ownership is a myth. It causes way more harm than good.
That aside: the easier it is for good guys to get a gun, the easier it is for bad guys too.
And: where does that idea of a good guy stopping a bad guy come from even? If the bad guy is the better shoot, he still wins the fight. If he catches the good guy by surprise (which is likely given that bad acts are an action and not a reaction), he also has the upper hand.
So more guns solves exactly nothing, it only increases risks everywhere.
Sadly. Gun nuts don’t want to hear any of this. The U.S. gun culture is truly obscene.
Because it’s just another scare tactic. We know there are some dangers having firearms around.
That’s why we want to make sure the goverment isn’t the only people allowed to have them. First comes registration, then confiscation, then the operations tyranny.
STFU. Gun ownership should be strictly limited and controlled. Fuck y’all that don’t like it.
Andy Weaver, the Branch Dividians, the Black Panthers, Native Americans, Mexico, the Philippines, Hawaiians, Germany, Japan, Spain, England, Canada, and Italy have all resisted the US government with arms.
But OK, you’re going to keep 'em in line with you’re pew pew pew. Meanwhile that danger that you acknowledge is real.
That makes sense because of mishandling, mismanagement, and… Wanting to die sometimes…
Most flight incidents happen on departure and arrival so of course most gun mishaps happen at home.
Guess what I’m saying is it all makes sense one way or the other.
“Means Matter”
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/
Reducing access to more lethal means of suicide reduces deaths by suicide in a population. The data on this is unequivocal.
That’s because the majority of suicidal crises are spontaneous and of absurdly short duration, on the order of around 20 minutes. If you interrupt the process between decision and action, people survive. And 90% of people who survive a suicide attempt never go on to die by suicide at any future point in their lives.
Those people just need a Good Guy With a Gun to kill them before they killed themselfs!
Legalize doctor assisted suicide. Let people end their lives with dignity.
Bruh I’d vote for this
A lot of people talking about means seem to be side stepping the fact that life is getting harder and that’s probably why suicides are going up.
The means do matter, but the means aren’t driving the wave we’ve seen this decade. Most suicides are finances and loneliness related. And even if someone does survive an attempt using another mean, the “help” is usually involuntary institutionalization which will make your life even worse. Even getting a driver’s license is harder after that.
Not to discredit the means, I just think we need to take a hard look at everything surrounding said means. Society needs to fail someone 1,000 times before they pick up the final societal failure.
This post brought to you by a test drive of a proposed Texas “don’t say gun” law.
There’s less and less reason to be alive. What the fuck is there to live for?
What are you talking about?! There’s so much more profit you can generate for the shareholders!!
Prioritize your health y’all, these are no doubt strange times.
This is by miles the worst firearm issue America has. Naive laws banning types of guns, magazine capacity, all that, do nothing for nearly half of all gun deaths.
Example after example shows that so much as inconveniencing a suicide is often enough to stop them. Guns are point and click. They are literally the most convenient way to surely die. This is why I didn’t own a gun until I was 39, and most were bought recently at 50 or so. I wasn’t mentally stable enough.
And if anyone wants to come in here screaming, “BAN all the things!”, just don’t. The 2A exists and the courts uphold it as an individual right, those are facts and not open to argument. And besides, I don’t hear anyone screaming about a handgun ban. Long guns, shotguns/AR-15’s/whatever, are something like 4% of gun deaths. Let’s focus on reducing the most harm.
So what now? We somehow test people to practice their rights? There are plenty for whom I’d like to yank the 1A and the franchise. But I’m sorry, people are free to speak and vote in this country.
And if we impose some sort of test, what’s the criteria, who administers it, who judges the results? What if one passes and later becomes suicidal?
I already know the answer to that one. Gun laws have always been, and always will be, racist. Don’t take my word! Please look around for yourself on this one.
And don’t start me with red flag laws, I know exactly how those would work out. Imagine vengeful exes, modern Brown Shirts, cops you pissed off, fuck me, even neighbors that are annoyed with you. While we’re at it, let’s just chunk the 4A right out the window.
Someone invariably starts talking mental health. And I’m 100% down with that, just as I am some form of universal health care. But here’s the thing with the mentally ill, they often don’t know they’re sick or are too sick to go get help, even if it’s free.
This is one of the most intractable problems in America, and I don’t have a clue what can be done about it.
Anyone? I’m listening.
Yea, we definitely need a two-pronged (or more) approach to tackle it in the US. Mental health would go a loooooong way for both the suicides and mass shootings.
Red flag laws are just fine when written correctly. That’s a ridiculous fear-mongering point. Not all of them are the same nor have the same agencies calling any shots.
You don’t have a clue because you’re being a pessemist about proven impacts. Red flag laws that target domestic violence and clinical depression have demonstrable impact on the problem. It’s intractible because people like you refuse to accept that a step in the right direction is better than nothing. Your attitude is quite pathetic, and you are part of the problem when you go on about how nothing can be done.
Started out helpful, went downhill fast.
Do you not see the potential for abuse of red flag laws? FFS, teenagers get people “swatted” and you want trigger happy cops coming into the home of an “armed and dangerous man” to remove his guns!? Best case, only your dog gets shot. We liberals acknowledge that cops act as judge, jury and executioner, and yet, for some cases, they’re all good?
20-years ago I had a gf drop a protective order on me. Because I dumped her. Didn’t fight it. Big mistake. When the cops didn’t arrest me on the spot, her and her boss fabricated a story claiming I violated the order. Got arrested for that one! Thank god mom was able to bum me $1,000 for a lawyer to get that charge tossed. No evidence, nothing, because it didn’t happen. Still spent a night in jail and had to fight it.
20-years after that, my ex-wife took a clue from that story.
“Get out of this house!”
“I own this house too, not leaving, you can’t make me.”
“I’ll get a restraining order.”
“Good luck. I’ve never hit you or even threatened violence.”
“I’ll tell them you did.”
And she did. She wanted that over my head for the child custody battle. Again, thrown out, but $8,000 and 4.5-years later I got my small children back last week. (And got married!)
Call me a pessimist. 🤷🏻♂️
Now I’m down to talk implementation, mainly that the local police have no say in it. But where are we summoning up the service to deal with such things? I’m all about listening to these ideas, but there are devils in the details.
The potential for abuse is not a reason against the whole plan. Or should we kick you off the internet because it allows terrible people to communicate?
Your entire general attitude is a problem.
And if anyone wants to come in here screaming, “BAN all the things!”, just don’t.
vs
This is one of the most intractable problems in America, and I don’t have a clue what can be done about it.
The 2nd amendment needs to go on the dustbin of history. I’m not saying people can’t own guns, but the right to should disappear.
“But that’s not realistic”, you might say. Sure, it’s not going to happen any time soon but I think the US will get there eventually.
Maybe I agree, maybe I don’t. Not 100% sure myself. But adding a constitutional amendment is unthinkable ATM. We couldn’t pass an amendment making every 2nd Saturday of March “Chocolate Chip Cookie Day”.
What I’m getting at is this: There is zero use talking about dumping the 2A, and neither your opinion nor mine will matter for decades to come. That discussion is off the table. And that’s not fatalism, it’s reality.
So again; Guns and suicide. Hell we do right now today?
All I got is health care, education, raising the poor from poverty, all the things conservatives won’t let us have. Feeling so hopeless on this front, reaching out to anyone that has so much as a baby step.
99% of our gun issues are due to intractable poverty and inequality. 50 years ago we didn’t have these issues because Corporations were not so overbalanced. There were perks to many jobs because taxes were very high on profits.
Fix the extreme poverty, housing, and take-home pay and most of these social issue will disappear. The rich and powerful ( Corpos and people) want people to give up rights because their problem is about control more than money.
Giving up rights won’t change any suicides because there is no more hope in the US anymore.
50 years ago we didn’t have these issues
This is where I’m coming from. Guns were a non-issue when I was young. I understand it’s impossible for young folks to experience the past, but it wasn’t like this. At all.
It’s like this now, though. Living in the past doesn’t do anything to protect those suffering today.
I am in a similar situation with my guns. I have two antique long guns. They’re locked up, in the crawl space, and I don’t keep any ammo in my house.
I have depression and I don’t trust myself not to use my guns to kill myself. For me, the inconvenience of accessing them and obtaining ammo feels like a safe compromise.
I agree that this is an enormous problem with no easy solutions.
Good for you! Keep it that way until long after you feel more sane. Might take years, might never happen, but you know yourself. Keep on keeping on!
Here’s a thought: gun ownership is not a right and it was a mistake for that to have been put in the Constitution.
If for the sake of argument we determine that it is not a right, then we can make some actual change. We heavily restrict ownership, prosecute those who have them after a grace period, stop sales of ammo to citizens, heavily monitor borders and ports of entry for firearms, and demilitarize the police.
In addition, we invest in education, social programs, mental health, and improve wages, housing costs, and food costs for everyone.
Instead of all that, we’re going to do nothing and send more money into the military.
And don’t start me with red flag laws, I know exactly how those would work out. Imagine vengeful exes, modern Brown Shirts, cops you pissed off, fuck me, even neighbors that are annoyed with you. While we’re at it, let’s just chunk the 4A right out the window.
Ya know you mostly had me up until here. Red flag laws - when your neighbor becomes despondent they should just leave the firearms around? When some kook starts waving his pistol around at the 7-11, you think they’re keeping and bearing arms responsibly? I don’t. Red Flag Laws are necessary.
https://jalopnik.com/stop-leaving-unsecured-guns-in-your-cars-1850268670
This nation needs to be responsible with the 440 MILLION firearms it’s accumulated if they’re going to keep them.
I don’t think it’s intractable I think it’s unenforced and under-reported.
You’re right, and you’re going to get downvoted for it. We have an inequality problem masking as a gun problem. We have a mental health crisis masking as gun problem.
Possible solutions to these situations aren’t fast and they don’t stir up emotions enough to get people to vote for you. Riling people up and telling them you can fix their problems fast gets votes; saying we have work to do doesn’t.
The stigma against mental healthcare won’t be gone in my child’s generation, but I am happy to see it is being accepted more than it was for mine. Of course, not thinking poorly of people for taking care of themselves doesn’t matter if people can’t afford to…
We have an inequality problem masking as a gun problem. We have a mental health crisis masking as gun problem.
Hard agree. People would not be killing themselves in droves if these issues weren’t present.
We have a shitload of guns in this country. Nothing is going to change that.
While I think we do need more strict gun ownership laws, they’re not going to change the amount already in people’s hands. Nor will they make people less miserable.
What we need are tangible improvements in people’s lives. Improved wages. Lower housing costs. Affordable healthcare. Quality, free treatment for addiction.
These are the things that will keep people from killing themselves.
And I agree with you! But we had a shitload of guns when I was a kid 40+ years back, and less stigma surrounding them. FFS, kids would never touch a real gun, or even think about it, without an adult present. LOL, I never even saw a gun despite being surrounded by them.
We have to attack the underlying issues you describe, but I’ve about given up hope on that.
I’ve often said: America doesn’t have a gun problem. America has a culture problem. Funny to see the up and down votes depending on time, place and context. I feel like my opinion is borderline factual. (Still an opinion!)
I’ll happily disagree with the stigma against mental health thing. This GenXer is damned happy to see Millennials and GenZ taking mental health seriously. Hell, wasn’t even talked about when we were young. Verboten. For that matter, gays were firmly in the closet, even our friends hid that shit. Maybe we’re agreeing but from slightly different age perspectives?
Little off topic, but I think the younger folks take it a bit far at times. Being a teenager, or even a 20-something, is a hella fucked up time in life. It just is. Yes, it’s hella challenging. No, there’s nothing wrong or unusual about you. All that confusion is normal. (Doesn’t help hearing that when you’re living it.)
No amount of social change is going to undo a hundred thousand years of evolution and the jacked up hormonal and social status changes that accompany growing up. (Plenty of room to improve though!)
We’re on the same page re: mental healthcare. I was trying to convey I’m glad the stigma around it less and less with each generation, but we still have a ways to go.
Gun laws have always been, and always will be, racist.
Yes. Because they’re all based on the original racist law, the Second Amendment.
https://truthout.org/articles/the-second-amendment-was-ratified-to-preserve-slavery/
Gun laws are the reason I can’t take that easy way out. Not cause it’s too difficult, I easily could, but I don’t want my legacy to be a row in a database used to push gun control laws I disagree with.
Hell man, something like 47% of gun deaths are suicide. If that isn’t getting us talking and taking action, your name on row 47,445 for 2023’s Excel sheet ain’t gonna matter.
Hang in there and fight the good fight. Fight useless gun laws that only cost political capital, fight for laws that might help us all.
We need people like you and keeping your death out a database is not helping. You’re alive, you can help, now. So let’s talk about it.
And if you ever want to talk, shit gets that bad, I’ve been there, done that. DM me and you got my email and phone.
Lift Your Head Up High (And Blow Your Brains Out).
You don’t hear a good bloodhound gang reference often.
Well, it is an efficient manner.
Unprecedented… so far.
If only there were some way to predict these sorts of outcomes….
Late stage capitalism is alienating. Many people are faced with the reality that there’s little point to live when your only purpose is to be a wage slave for billionaires. There are no prospects of owning a home or being comfortable ever unless you’re born into wealth or willing to exploit others and put them into bad situations just so you can have a bit of comfort.
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