You can apparently “support Ukraine” by visiting privatization.gov.ua to profiteer off its population’s misery
About a year ago I saw billboards saying something like “the only bad thing about investing in Ukraine is not doing it right now” plastered all over my local provincial mall. I’m no advertising professional but I don’t suspect random that random Danish shoppers are a very effective demographic for an investment campaign. Either they’re desperate, they’re massive grifters who are burning as much money as possible before the inevitable downfall or some combination of the two.
But “it’s different/it didn’t happen” when Ukraine hits maternity centers, shopping malls and kindergartens. Or drops bombs from the drones on civilians, seeing exactly who they hit.
The Western media conveniently leaves out Ukraine shelling the Donbass over the last several years
26 civilians? That’s what the illegal zionist entity kills on a slow afternoon.
And now let us remember how the UA places its troops in schools and civilian housing all the time…
This is a bad thing
although the media attention and scope is quite skewed, and this is doubtless going to be used as propaganda for ukraine to kill russian civs.
But this is an attack that has killed citizens, further burning a land once united and deepening the divide between them. This war is both the final revenge of the Soviet Union, and the final nail of its coffin.
Interestingly enough look on lemmy world news, libs there were like “Russia genocides Ukrainians by the millions” for two years, and now they are “30 killed in biggest attack in the war”.
Lemmy.world is the worst parts of reddit lol
One of our admins, I think it was comrade Criticalresist, called Lemmy.world “reddit 2.0” in their post where they announced that Lemmy.world had defederated from us
That was by the way posted by the most veteran of lemmy libs pingveno, who then proceed to show that his reading comprehension somhow went even worse since the reddit invasion, and who also straight up posted this gem
and promptly got 3 day ban for tokenizing Jews (no nazis under Jewish president etc.) in other post.
I’d point out Ukraine already kills Russian civilians. Already conducts terrorist attacks and feels fully justified in doing so because they are blood-thirsty, monstrous fascists being pushed to do something for the even stronger fascists their US masters. You have liberals in the US calling all Russians orcs, celebrating Russian tourists being killed in shark attacks. Ukraine is already fully unhinged, fully committed to terror tactics and will grow so even more so as their conventional forces fail and evaporate as the US demands punishment on Russian bodies and they don’t give a fuck if those bodies are civilians or not. The propaganda for dehumanizing Russians has already reached its zenith, it can’t go higher. They’ve staged false flag massacres, claimed all kinds of atrocities committed by Russians in areas they briefly occupied, and the western imagination does the rest.
More propaganda is not needed. If civilians were not incidentally killed, they would stage fake massacres as in ‘Bucha’ (sp?) or wherever that was. It’s in other words irrelevant to propaganda.
thats what i said
doesn’t mean im going to cheer when it hits noncombatants in ukraine. This doesn’t mean I support the Nazi supporting Ukraine state, but I cannot look at this and think its a good or right thing. A fault of their own actions, maybe.
this whole thing is a mess
Also we should be careful and not quick to accept western bourgeois propaganda press and their version of events. Let us not forget how dishonest they are and this is their dishonesty plus the plausible deniability of just repeating whatever the Kiev regime says, so if later it comes out that it isn’t true, they’re off the hook completely.
Here is RT on the incident, no less credible:
https://www.rt.com/russia/589951-ukraine-kill-civilians-un/
Ukrainian air defenses kill civilians – Moscow
*Rather than intercepting Russian missiles, Kiev’s Western-provided systems hit apartment blocks, Russia’s envoy to the UN said *
Ukrainian air defense missiles were responsible for civilian casualties during Russia’s recent bombardment of Ukrainian military sites, Russia’s permanent representative to the UN, Vassily Nebenzia, claimed on Friday. Were it not for the “Nazi regime’s” malfunctioning missiles, there would have been no civilian deaths, Nebenzia added.
Russia unleashed a wave of missile and drone strikes across Ukraine in the early hours of Friday morning. According to the Russian Defense Ministry, the “massive” barrage targeted defense industry sites, military airfields, arms depots, and troop positions, including concentrations of foreign mercenaries.
Ukraine claimed that 30 civilians were killed and 160 wounded in the attacks, and Kiev called for an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council in response. During the meeting, Britain’s permanent representative to the UN, Barbara Woodward, accused Russia of targeting civilians and stated that there would have been fewer casualties if Ukraine had more air defense systems.
“It is hard to imagine greater cynicism,” Nebenzia responded. “But for the work of Ukrainian air defenses, there would have been simply no civilian casualties.”
Nebenzia showed the Security Council video footage of a burning missile falling onto an apartment block in Kiev. “An impact missile does not fly at such a speed and along such a trajectory,” he explained. “Obviously, this is the consequence of the work of Ukrainian air defense.”
Another photo shared by Nebenzia showed a residential building in Lviv peppered with small craters, caused by the submunitions that air defense missiles – when working properly – expel in order to detonate incoming missiles mid-flight.
“The Nazi regime is ready to kill not only the inhabitants of Donbas with Western weapons and the same air defense missiles, but also kill its own citizens in their homes,” he declared.
Ukraine’s air defense batteries – a mix of Soviet-era and Western-provided systems – have malfunctioned in this manner on countless occasions during the conflict, most notably when a Ukrainian missile veered off course into eastern Poland last November and killed two farmers.
Ukraine responded to Friday’s barrage by firing banned cluster munitions at civilian targets in the Russian city of Belgorod on Saturday, killing at least 18 people, including two children. Russia has called an emergency meeting of the security council, and has insisted that the Czech representative attend, as Czech rockets were allegedly used to deliver the deadly munitions.
The Russian Ministry of Defense said on Saturday that the “criminal” attack on Belgorod “will not go unpunished.”
Interestingly enough I remember earlier in the conflict someone did an analysis that showed a Ukrainian apartment block they claimed Russia hit could only have been hit by Ukrainian air defenses so this would not be the first time. We must also remember the Polish provocation where two Poles in Poland died after a munition landed, Ukraine immediately blamed Russia and hopped up and down for Article 5 and Poland responding but it turned out it was one of their own anti-air missiles and it was swept under the rug there-after.
And note what Poland did after that incident - shit got too real, so instead of uncritically repeating UA and US propaganda like usual, they called highest tier meeting with president and after few hours announced that they don’t believe it was Russian attack.
Do you have any sources pointing to the staged massacre in Bucha?
they didn’t need propaganda to shell people in donbass for 8 years
Neither side intentionally targets civilians.
War is hell. But Russia, as the aggressor in this war, is the one in the wrong here.
Nah Ukraine started it back in 2014 with the coup and the subsequent oppression of Russian speaking population of the Donbass
This didn’t start in 2022
Don’t forget the blatent violation of both minsk accords and their statement the negotiations where in bad faith
Oppressed how?
Across all sides (Civilian, Military, Ukranian and Russian), an estimated 150-200K people have died and half a million wounded since the start of the invasion in 2022.
What kind of oppression could possibly been having taken place that necessitates such an escalation?
Here’s a documentary about it that leaves out most of the blood and gore that you could easily find if you looked: Donbass (2016). You will see a bit of people being burned to death in this documentary and some other injuries but not to the extent you could find in other videos of the time.
Here’s a scene of the burning of the trade union building in 2014. Russian speakers were protesting regarding the repeal of a law which protected Russian as a minority language (or as the Ukrainian former soldier in the video states, they were “contesting a ban on the Russian language in Ukraine.”) The protestors hid in the trade union building when Ukrainian right wing nationalists showed up. Eventually, the Ukrainian nationalists set fire to the building and many of the protesters burned to death, with those who jumped out of the windows getting beaten to death by the Ukrainian nationalists. (See also: “Burnt Alive in Odessa”).
If you can stomach seeing bodies blown up in the streets, limbs removed, dead babies, and footage of people dying, there are other documentaries around which show it. It’s not hard to find footage like this from 2014 onwards. E.g., Result of a 2014 shelling by Ukrainian military (CW: Numerous dead bodies); More aftermath of a shelling (CW: Extremely graphic, numerous mutilated bodies, and footage of a person dying).
You can make up your own mind about the conflict’s particulars as you learn about it, but it’s a mistake to ignore events happening before 2022 or treat them as insignificant.
They where none stop shelling donbass, and took away the rights of the Russian speaking population many times, they also flagrantly violated both minsk accords.
Also you are convenently forgetting that Russia has REPEATEDLY offered peace treaties, negotiations for peace treaties and cease fires so they can negotiate a peace treaty starting from week 1, that Ukraine (Became the US told them to) Refuses every time.
They where none stop shelling Donbass
Yes, it so happens a civil war was being fought there.
But the majority of the fighting ended with the second Minsk accords. After 2017 on average only about a dozen people died a year from combat actions. So there couldn’t have been much shelling going on in 2022.
How does a dozen or two deaths a year warrant an escalation to a hundred thousand deaths a year?
took away the rights of the Russian speaking population many times
Which rights, when did this happen? I’m honestly curious abuot this.
flagrantly violated both minsk accords.
Both sides did that. A lot.
But what does that have to do with Russia’s 2022 invasion? Putin himself said that Russia would not get involved in the enforcement of the Minsk accords because it was an internal Ukrainian matter.
Also you are convenently forgetting that Russia has REPEATEDLY offered peace treaties,
Because Russia wants to not only keep the land they’ve invaded but also dictate the way Ukraine conducts it’s diplomatic relations with other nations. Ukraine is fighting for it’s sovereignty here. Russia is trying to take that away.
no I am talking about the shellings POST accord 1 and then agian POST accord 2.
I have not seen where Putin said he would not enforce it, however 1) Russia is a signitary so they have some enforcement ability, and second the Russian Speaking Minority did request aid
the first one I can think of, and this is not all of it, but Ukraine banned the use of Russian in all of Ukrane, (I mean if shelling homes after 2 peace treaties was not enough)
And at the start they where not wanting to keep the DPR and LPR, but instead get them recognized as independent nations, it was not untill after the votes of the DPR and LPR that they where planning on keeping them, also the USA and the EU are already controling and dictating Ukraines forign policy, so by that metric they are not sovern any way.
4 if you are refering to the not joining NATO both NATO and Ukraine had agreed that that wold never be an option, after the fall of the berlin wall, NATO garenteed Gorbie, that they would not expand past their current boarders, Russia is fighting an exsistintal threat, the aliance’s express purpous is anti-russia pro USA, and there is farther proof, by every time that Russia (or the USSR) has asked to join they have been rejected out of hand. Russia is not trying to take away any sovernty
- what about the illigal coup carried out by the west when Ukraine was looking to be more friendly to russia?
This is really sad what happened to the innocents tbh. That being said, I will never forget the Alley of Angels. Everyone who points at this event but says nothing about Alley of Angels is a liar who doesn’t care about people dying, just certain people dying.
what exactly is ur take here? this is a bad thing, its fucked up that Russia targets civilians sometimes, worse things happening elsewhere doesnt mean that this is ok or that we shouldn’t care, or that we should be disrespectful of civilians dying.
this is a disturbing thing to post, as in its disturbing that ur reaction to 26 civilians being murdered in a war is to laugh at it, that is psychopath shit.
More than 26 civilians are murdered every day in Gaza (actually around 300) and Biden just went around congress to give Israel more weapons.
Hence “muh white people!” It’s all about the color of the victim’s skin.
The continued censorship of the fake school genocide of the Indian Residential fake Schools from 1850s to 1998 (and after 1998 in secret) compared to the Nazi Holocaust which is a cheap imitation of the Indian Residential fake schools further prove the racist hypocrisies of Western European diaspora. The Western European diaspora continued to cover their crimes against humanity by lying that the fake school holocaust with the human trafficking, child enslavement, unethical human experimentations, inheritence thief, rampart violence, rampart rapes, psychopathic tortures, and unrestrained mass murders are simple “cultural genocide” or that the reparation for war crimes are “free money”.
so true best way to point out hypocrisy is to laugh at civilians dying in a war with no additional context, if the post also included the same person supporting Israhell maybe, but as it stands this is just laughing at dead civilians.
Seems like quite a lot of people understood the context here, a site that has posted the context nonstop since October 7
I’m pretty sure it’s mocking the crocodile tears of a US ambassador who is using this to call for more US “support” for Ukraine. The reality is US “support” is what has escalated the war to this point, if it weren’t for ambassadors like her there’d already be a negotiated peace.
Stop spewing liberal propaganda. You’d think people here would know better by now. There is no evidence Russia deliberately targeted civilians.
We know from the past that Ukrainians deliberately park military assets near civilian infrastructure like schools, malls, etc so even if the maternity center and kindergarten aren’t lies it’s very likely they were hit incidentally after the Ukro-nazis used them as shields with the deliberate intent of making sure Russians killed civilians so they could sob about it.
The whole war is a bad thing. Fascists seizing power in 2014 is a bad thing, the break-up of the Soviet Union was a bad thing, etc.
But I’d like to point out that with Ukraine’s “fall of Berlin” level of mass conscription, Russian soldiers firing on Ukrainian soldiers is killing people who were only recently civilians and didn’t choose to be on the front lines but were kidnapped and put there with Neo-Nazi blocking units (and US supplied intelligence and overwatch) preventing them from fleeing their posts. And these are people who have for months, a year been prevented from fleeing the conflict zone by their own government desperate to keep canon fodder around by shutting the borders, thus placing them in danger. Obviously you probably wouldn’t say that’s as wrong as civilians being incidentally killed in missile strikes but both were chosen by the Ukrainians not the Russians who desperately, with all their might and vigor tried to find peace out of this even if it meant not getting all their goals repeatedly but were rejected in favor of being bled in an attempt to destroy and humiliate Russia and its people.
The blood of any dead Ukrainian civilians (including those pressed into uniform for use as canon fodder) is not the fault of Russia but of the US and the fascist puppet leadership in Kiev and I will continually point this out and scream about this mischaracterization which is in fact regurgitating western propaganda. The blood is entirely on their not Russian hands. In a strategy where the flailing puppet regime is demanded by it’s American masters to fight to the last Ukrainian it’s an unusual situation.
I feel badly for the Russian soldiers who’ve died and I feel badly for the Ukrainian conscripts (to a lesser degree given they watched fascism rise and did nothing or abetted it), but this happens in war against these types. A war Russia did not choose. A war they gave multiple off-ramps to. A defensive war against imperialist aggression and encroachment by swastika and SS symbol sporting fascists as the tip of the NATO spear aimed at Russia’s belly.
Thats a lot of words to address things i didnt fucking say. maybe i should not have said “targets” maybe i should have said “kills” instead, but lets be clear is not like Russia wouldnt if the felt they needed to, they have targeted civilian infrastructure like the powergrid before.
A powergrid is the quintessential example of dual purpose infrastructure. Without a functioning power grid a modern military’s logistics are crippled. That unfortunately makes power grids absolutely a legitimate target for destruction in a war. The fact that Russia so far has refrained from wiping out Ukraine’s power grid because they are concerned about the serious consequences it would have on the civilian population is a testament to their restraint and patience.
They could easily target and disable most of Ukraine’s power plants, they could leave most of Ukraine without power, without heating and without most forms of telecommunications, but so far all they did was they took out some high value electrical substations that were especially important for the rail sector. And may i remind you that Ukraine, like Russia, uses trains to transport most of its troops and equipment over longer distances.
they have targeted civilian infrastructure like the powergrid before
First, there’s a huge difference between targeting civilian infrastructure vs. actual civilians. Blowing up a bridge across a river in a city is not the same as indiscriminately bombing the city.
Second, there is likely no significant infrastructure that is used purely for civilian purposes. The fact that Russia hasn’t destroyed any infrastructure it can reach (which is virtually everywhere in Ukraine) is evidence that they are showing at least some restraint. Contrast this with Gaza (where the Israel had to be pressured to even allow water in) or the indiscriminate bombing campaigns that everyone conducted in WWII, and the U.S. in particular conducted in Korea and Vietnam.
We know from the past that Hamas deliberately park military assets near civilian infrastructure like schools, malls, etc so even if the maternity center and kindergarten aren’t lies it’s very likely they were hit incidentally after the terrorists used them as shields with the deliberate intent of making sure IDF killed civilians so they could sob about it.
Sounds familiar?
this is just lazy, it’s on the same level as people replacing “bourgeoisie” in communist slogans with “black people” or whatever to imply that communists and nazis sound-alike or have the same beliefs
the ukrainian military does have a history of using civilian infrastructure for military purposes, there’s even a recent video of them using a fucking ambulance for their meat catcher conscription scheme
hamas doesn’t have a history of doing that, it’s zionist propaganda
The Zionist’s confession to shoot explosives across all of Gaza Strip actually make it obvious that they deliberately target civilians along with their confession that killing civilians are unavoidable in war. The photo evidences and testomonies by pro-Kyiv are full of ambiguity, self-contradiction, plot holes, and fantasy logic.
The city of Donetsk has a relative area size to the Gaza Strip, and has less than half the population. Israel has dropped 25,000 tonnes of explosives on the Gaza Strip, equivalent to two nuclear bombs. Shut the fuck up.
Almost like Hamas has legitimate grievances against invading fascist settlers as do the Russians. Almost like Hamas’ situation being put in a small, very dense urban area with no choice but to fight out of it is different from the choices the Ukrainians make in where to locate their air defenses and other strategically important things. Almost like every accusation a confession from the west and their pawns.
Shameful for a user on this site to take this kind of ignorant stance. Do better.
We laugh at USA FUCKING EMBASSY writing this hypocrisy fest when their multiple wars are just mass murder shock and awe indiscrimiate bombings complete with double-tapping rescuers as if they wanted the world to see how evil they are.
I think … maybe…
Civilians injured in Ukraine gets the US Ambassador to say, “Hey, support Ukraine!”
Civilians injured in the Palestinian territories but there are no US Ambassador’s tweeting, 'Hey support Palestine!"
which shows their hypocrisy and favouritism, but we don’t need to stoop down that low ourselves. war is horrible.
it’s not “stooping” to remark that racist favoritist hypocrites are racist and favoritist (which is what the OP is doing)
No war but class war. And this aint a class war, its just innocent people being killed on both sides.
No war but class war.
Settler talk that ignores the intersectionalities necessary for you to have your ‘class war’. While you may not be wrong about innocent blood being shed, “no war but class war” is honestly just as bad to me as right-winger anti-Black dogwhistling because it says to me that the settlers and their descendants can never be put in a position of actually having to pay for all they’ve done. Can never be made to feel uncomfy, can never have support withheld from them due to a historically-earned lack of trust. This is not the way.
I didnt imply anything like that, and am from a colony.
The thing here is that Russia is not the soviet union anymore. Its a proto-fascist dictatorship, fighting another proto-fascist nation for their resources.
I also understand we are better off in the long run if the US loses. But we are talking about comple innocents here, we would be much better off without this war in the first place.
It’s a proto-fascist dictatorship
If Russia is that then so is every single western “liberal democracy”. With the crucial difference that Russia is not a part of the imperial core, it is a semi-peripheral country and at the moment one of the main antagonists of the empire.
And while the Russian Federation is indeed a bourgeois regime, it would be un-marxist to look at the country in isolation and to close one’s eyes to its position in the context of the larger global conflict between the imperial core and the periphery (or what could be called the global class struggle).
It is a fact that Russia, with its numerous internal contradictions that we as Marxists are acutely aware of, plays a pivotal role in the new multipolar world that is taking shape. They continue (if not to the same degree as their Soviet predecessors) to be involved in aiding anti-colonial struggles and helping global south countries that have found themselves in the crosshairs of the empire to defend themselves: from Syria and Iran to Mali and Burkina Faso, and even Venezuela and Nicaragua.
It is not only incorrect, it is downright lazy to blindly parrot the liberal line about Russia being a “proto-fascist dictatorship”. This “neither Moscow nor Washington” type of fencesitting is not helpful and not appropriate to the current phase of global struggle that we find ourselves in.
What kind of “they go low we go high” bullshit is this? 🤣
I’m not for the killings of innocent civilians, is all. This is mostly a fight between the oligarchs involved. I’m sure most actual ukrainians are fine, as most russians.
I’m sure most actual ukrainians are fine,
Mmmmmmmm that’s highly dependent. I follow the axiom of “where one nazi sits at a table with a dozen people, if the people there stay seated, there’s now thirteen nazis in the room”. I never saw any meaningful attempt to get away from that table from large swathes of Ukranian civilians save the ones that actually deserted.
a better axiom is “could i apply the responsibility i’m expecting of civilians to children” fuck are ukrainian kids supposed to do about nazis in government? the disabled? pensioners?
and the ukrainian opposition parties that were banned & leaders jailed/disappeared—they aren’t evidence ukrainians aren’t all fash?
I was under the impression most nazis were on the military. My country is mostly the same and as much as I hate them theres not much we can do about them rn. I think a similar situation applies to the rest of them outside the armies and police.
I don’t sit at the table with them but they are out there still, regardless of how the rest of the working class thinks of them and most of us just need our next paycheck.
Russia targets civilians
If Russia was targeting civilians there would be a lot more civilian casualties. Russia fired over a hundred missiles and who knows how many more drones, and even according to the numbers put out by the Ukrainian authorities which are highly untrustworthy they have killed less than “Israel” does with a single bomb. And it’s not because Russia is bad at killing, it’s because unlike the Ziofash they are not trying to mass murder civilians
Just a cursory glance at the total civilian casualties over the course of this entire conflict shows that Russia has gone out of its way to avoid harming civilians whenever possible. In no other modern conflict has the ratio of civilian to military casualties been this low. This is just an objective fact, look it up. And a hell of a lot of those civilian casualties have been people in the Russian annexed territories, in frontline cities which are still being regularly shelled by Ukraine, most of the time for no apparent reason other than to terrorize the population.
ur reaction […] Is to laugh at it
Nobody here is laughing, this entire war is a tragedy that didn’t need to happen. These civilian casualties are also highly tragic, all the more so since many of them are likely due to Ukrainian AD missiles missing and hitting residential areas. We have had ample video of such misfires in the past, but none of actual Russian strikes being purposely aimed at civilian targets except on the very rare occasion when there was undeniable evidence of concentration of high value military assets there.
And before any dumbass even tries to draw some asinine and morally bankrupt comparison to what is happening in Gaza, may i remind you that Ukraine’s territory is over ten thousand times the size of Gaza. They have plenty of empty fields and forests to park their equipment in - they don’t need to be putting their military assets inside cities right next to or sometimes inside civilian objects! For the Kiev regime that is a choice; a deliberate one.
What the Zionist propagandists falsely accuse Hamas of doing is what the AFU is actually doing: using human shields and then cynically using their deaths regardless which side was responsible for them for propaganda purposes.
I am not saying Ukrainian should die but it’s the audacity of a US ambassador to post about Ukraine and not Gaza
there are better way to point out the hypocrisy, this aint it.
Really should’ve worded the title better then
I like chaos and such…
“Ur”
Y u do dis?
21 Russian civilians killed from just 1 Ukraine attack in Belgorod after this. You can draw the comparisons to the results 158 missiles Russia did.
that has nothing to do with it, its still bad that those people died and we shouldn’t be making jokes about it. its fucked up that ur respose to someone saying that civilians dying is bad and we shouldnt laugh at it is to point out that more civilians died elsewhere, what is wrong with u.
My post is about “Russia targets civilians” point in yours. I don’t laugh at it either, even as I understand it’s the case of
Millions can die in the Middle East and no one bats an eye, but a few dozen white civillians are murdered in a European War and suddenly we’re on a divine mission to retaliate.
This is actually a great example to show how Russia does NOT target civilians
