• Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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    9 months ago

    Liberalism is a pro-free market Capitalist idea centered on the ideas of individual liberty. This is right wing. It isn’t fascism, but it’s also not leftist.

    The divide between left and right is who you think should own and control the Means of Production: the Workers, or Capitalists.

    • Zozano@lemy.lol
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      9 months ago

      I’m honestly shocked at how many times I’ve needed to explain this, it’s quite a bother.

      In America, liberal = Liberalism. I get it.

      I never said Liberalism*, I said liberal. Outside of America, liberal colloquially means those pertaining to the liberal ideology (not the liberalism ideology). Refer to the dictionary definition above for what the liberal ideology is.

      *(Nevermind I did say liberalism in a parallel post. Again, I’m not from America, but in context with the screenshot of the definition it’s pretty clear I’m referring to liberal ideology)

          • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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            9 months ago

            It does. The term liberal comes from liberalism, which was founded during the Enlightenment. It isn’t an “American” thing to tie liberalism to liberals, it’s the definition.

            • Zozano@lemy.lol
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              9 months ago

              It’s the definition when you’re talking about liberalism for sure. But that’s not what I’m referring to. The other definition is the one which, in context, I am obviously referring to.

              one who is open-minded or not strict in the observance of orthodox, traditional, or established forms or ways

              With the previous definition, it is clear I am talking about leftists. Context is king.

              But, lesson learned; don’t use the phrase liberal outside of a philosophical/academic context.

              • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                9 months ago

                Leftism isn’t a vague, general synonym for “goodness,” nor does it entitled you to use terminology for a right-wing ideology as a synonym for leftism.

                1. Capitalists can be open-minded and go against tradition without being left-wing.

                2. Left vs. Right isn’t about open-mindedness or a sense of futurism, it’s about collective vs. individual ownership of the Means of Production.

                3. Using an Enlightenment term for a Capitalist ideology as a term to describe leftists is wrong.

                That’s why everyone has been pointing out that you’ve been using terms incorrectly. You can either accept that you misspoke, and everyone can move on, or we will be stuck here.

                • Zozano@lemy.lol
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                  9 months ago

                  Honestly, let’s be stuck here. I’m tired of repeating myself. There’s nothing to be gained here, you understand what I was trying to say, even if you think my words were wrong, and that’s good enough for me.

                  Don’t get me wrong, I’m not heated, I appreciate that you’ve helped me to understand that I can’t say liberal on the internet because people will misunderstand my intention.

                  • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                    9 months ago

                    It’s more that you shouldn’t use right wing terms to refer to left wing ideas, it’s generally bad practice to pretend people believe in the opposite of reality.

      • banneryear1868@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        those pertaining to the liberal ideology (not the liberalism ideology)

        This is confusing, you seem to be using colloquial definitions of liberal with political ones interchangeably, but in the context of the political right denouncing liberal political projects as “woke” suggests you mean political liberals in the US.

        When I see liberal parties in other countries, namely Europe, they are classed as center-right. Here in Canada they’re a little more spread out but economic right for sure. For just a quick example, I support strong affirmative action, but for political liberals that has become watered down to “equality of opportunity” and disparity frameworks.