I know this is typical for the US so this is more for US people to respond to. I wouldn’t say that it is the best system for work, just wondering about the disconnect.
Because even I don’t want to work 9-5.
(Also, when are teachers supposed to do things like grade work, or kids to have extracurricular activities, 9-5 is draining, add in music or sports and there’s nothing left)
Working 9-to-5 is miserable. It only helps if the wolk you’re doing is interesting.
For a child, school is usually not ‘interesting’. Children shouldn’t be subjected to misery.
P.s. Props to you for saying you’re in the US, not just assuming it.
I don’t think school should emulate work.
Learning (well) isn’t easy, attention spans are limited and after some time you get rapidly diminishing results.
I personally like the sound of inverting the structure we use for learning, meaning assigning the “theory” as homework and using class time to discuss or apply it afterwards.
At least that has the benefit of letting every student manage their time, spending more time on harder (for them) subjects.
When would the teachers have time to lesson plan or grade if they’re teaching kids 8 hours a day?
While the kids are doing whatever they used to call homework in class. Split classes between teachers: one supervises while one works.
You don’t manage a lot of kids, do you?
It’s literally what they do in my wife’s class where they have 24 each but hey what would I know
“My wife’s a primary school teacher so I know enough to solve education issues”
Here is a functional solution you want to ignore because you look down on primary school teachers
No its because I am a teacher and you have no idea what you’re talking about
18 hours to think that up? Yeah, you’re not a teacher.
Now I have been outa school since 2008, but back then, in public school, they didn’t teach us shit. Like actual useful things. How to deal with emotions, personal finance, How to deal with police, mindfulness, critical thinking…nothing. all busy work and history through the American lense (propaganda). I even had a science teacher who was super religious and said earth was created 6000 years ago…it was geology ffs. Math was the worst imo. Solve for X, zero context. The only reasoning they gave to learn it was “to get in to college”.
Safe to say I didn’t go to college.
You had me until math. I used algebra every day of my blue collar life. Fun fact, the more math that you know directly correlates to your income more than any other subject.
I use math everyday as well in the trades. Not too complex math, but my point was not the math itself, rather the way it was taught to me and the context given, which was none. I’m definitely not saying don’t teach math, quite the opposite. I’m a hands on learner. Math for the sake of math to 15 yr old me seemed like an empty exercise. If I could do it again, I’d probably be good at it. But that’s life.
Friendly reminder that correlation does not equal causation.
Intelligence is the most likely mediator between those two variables. Intelligent people can grasp mathematical concepts easier and are more likely to use it, and intelligent people tend to shoot for higher paying jobs that challenge them.
If you didn’t learn that stuff, that’s on your parents, not your teachers. They’re not there to raise you.
Not all parents are equal. It’d be cool if we valued our young, regardless of from whom they came from. Nobody gets to decide whether to be born or not, but they’re still forced to accept the terms of service.
Maybe we should try to value… people?.. in general? But who honestly gives a fuck, I got too much on my own plate to really think about it anyway
That’s why they’re all entitled to a free education in most modern democracies.
Unfortunately not all parents are equal, that’s true. But there’s not much that can be done about that which child protection agencies don’t already cover.
Teachers can’t raise their students.
I agree that teachers can’t/shouldn’t have to raise students, and I believe most teachers would agree. But it ends up happening all of the time because a lot of people want to help as best they can. The teachers who do go the extra mile(s) shouldn’t have to be put in that situation to begin with. And the teachers who do their job well and nothing else, shouldn’t be shamed. It’s a societal problem that doesn’t have to be… but we’d rather blame “work ethic” and “this new generation”, than invest in the underlying issues. And that same rhetoric has been happening for probably over a century (at the very least)
Saying “CPS already covers what we can’t really change” is a farcry from actuality. Do you think social work is a prestigious position? If you do, are they funded and compensated appropriately? If people are just “popping babies out of their vagina” and expecting help to raise them; why do we work so hard to undermine the autonomy of a woman’s choice to give birth in the first place? And if “every life matters” (so very much) to those who oppose choice… why aren’t we helping the families who aren’t allowed to choose because of some bullshit beliefs/laws that have nothing to do with an observed reality? Hypocrisy all over the damn place.
It’s a control and power struggle that has been going on for longer than we’ve been alive. We can have rational thought AND compassion at the same time; but many of those who influence our “laws” don’t give a damn about what happens to poeple after their own ends or objectives have been met.
If we don’t believe teachers are responsible for raising kids, than we better damn-well make sure we are providing our own with the resources they need. Or fuck it, let’s keep passing the blame in order to make ourselves feel righteous and forget about the very complex issues. Complexities are hard anyway, why bother when I’m already comfortable?
Those are US problems. I don’t live in the US
Those are absolutely not problems specific to the US. But it looks like you’re not trying to understand any viewpoint other than your own. Good day sir
Lol your world view is so American that you can’t see the forest for the trees. Indeed it seems you’re the one who doesn’t understand any other viewpoint, because you don’t even understand that there are other viewpoints to be had.
Yeah, it’s not like they are part of an institution designed to ensure a baseline level of education within society. Oh, wait.
That’s right, to educate you, not to raise you.
A basic level of education to function at work. That’s literally why modern schooling was created during the industrial revolution.
What the fuck do you think parents are supposed to do? Just pop you out of a vagina, feed you, and leave everything else to other people?
I’m sorry your parents were so shit, anon.
How to deal with emotions, personal finance, How to deal with police, mindfulness, critical thinking…nothing.
All of that seems fairly important for continued success at work.
What the fuck do you think parents are supposed to do? Just pop you out of a vagina, feed you, and leave everything else to other people?
Unfortunately, much to my dismay, being a parent has no requirements or standards. As such, in order to ensure a baseline, that should be available in school. In addition, how are those parents supposed to learn how to parent… if that isn’t taught in school?
Fuck orphans?
Cute, but complete crap.
Ah yes, I can’t believe I didn’t look at it that way. What wonderous intelligence you have been blessed with.
It means that you’re being deliberately obtuse in order to pretend that you don’t understand that you’re wrong. If you don’t understand how to admit that, it’s nobody else’s problem.
I think there is some nefarious reasons for the current setup but here’s a point I didn’t see. People and children especially can’t learn for 8 hours straight learning needs to be broken up with play time or eating or socializing. Then reinforcement of what you learned earlier before you go to sleep can be helpful. Ideally I don’t think homework should be learning new subjects or really hard at all it should be a cake walk of whatever was learned during that day.
“Ideally I don’t think homework should be learning new subjects or really hard at all it should be a cake walk of whatever was learned during that day.”
As professional educators, that’s what many of us intend. In my case, many kids just don’t really practice the new stuff in class, so when they get home they think it’s new. I fixed that issue a few years ago, but it’s crazy what a hard time some kids have with pretty basic self-regulation. I don’t blame anyone in particular, it’s just tough.
Instead of adopting the archaic 9-5, how about just eliminate homework?
How about we eliminate homework and switch to a 32 hour (or whatever) work week…
As a teacher I 100% support this, it would be much better for teachers and students. It won’t happen though unless parents are also given a 4 day work week so they can look after their kids.
The homework aspect in theory helps with the University structure.
Perhaps. But only the last 2-4 years. No student below high school should have homework (there is research to back this up). And they can do it in study hall, not necessarily at home. College courses have like half the class time, so professors hit the hard parts and expect students to read and get the rest on their own.
No student below high school should have homework (there is research to back this up).
Might I ask what research? Could you give me a source or two? I’m rather intrigued by this
I found a summary, but the link to the research is broken:
