Yesterday I started looking into trans acceptance and understanding in china. I came across articles about Jin Xing, china first trans clinic for minors (opened in 2021), China’s laws regarding obtaining HRT or GRS (mostly western sources), searched Bilibili and Baidu (videos) using the terms 同志, 變性 and 跨性别 combing through the comments. Finally looking through the stories of trans people who visited or worked in china.

I was surprised to find lots of roadblocks for trans people attempting to get HRT, GRS, change there paperwork etc. For example if you want to obtain HRT in china as a trans women you must notify your family, get written acceptance, prove you have no criminal record and undergo psychological treatment. This leads to a lot of trans people getting HRT online. However as of 2022 estradiol and cyproterone where added to a list making it illegal to obtain online.

The comment sections of videos on the topic are pretty bad id say similar to transphobic comments left in videos in America. The stories of non passing trans people who traveled to china getting mocked, belittled or in some cases having the police called on them. All of this shocked me and due to the language barrier I attempted to look past some of the comments or dismiss some of the horror stories.

It appears to me that china is severely behind on Trans acceptance and that’s why I’d like to open this up as a discussion on the matter as I am only one person who understands little mandarin or other Chinese dialects and would greatly appreciate any information on the matter.

  • olgas_husband@lemmygrad.ml
    5·
    1 year ago

    sadly, that is one of the weakpoints of china, the misogyny and lgbtfobia left by colonization is still very present, personally i don’t think there is a excuse to not advanced in that point, so it is fair to criticize heavily, especially when they had a starting point of acceptance, i.e the gay god in taiosm religion.

    cuba being in a very tough spot and starting as a deeply misogynist and homophobic country, today have one the most advanced legislation in the world

    • sofa@lemmygrad.mlOPEnglish
      1·
      1 year ago

      Hopefully in the future they will take some inspo from cuba regarding LGBTQ rights, thanks for the info!

      • Munrock ☭@lemmygrad.ml
        31·
        1 year ago

        It will happen only very slowly, because China is huge with a vast rural population and the government will not force faster cultural change in a way that leaves people thinking they’re being pushed into accepting ideals they don’t want, no matter how wrong those people may be.

        It’s going to happen generationally, via schools and media teaching each successive generation to be more accepting.

        But on the bright side what that means is we won’t see massive reactionary surges repealing progressive laws like we’re currently seeing recently over trans rights in Florida or Roe v Wade across the U.S.

        When China steps forward on progressive issues they might only be small infrequent steps, but it’s the whole country stepping forward and there will be no stepping back.

        It’s frustrating when you compare it to Western standards, but when you consider that most of China are culturally conservative, the progressive movement is doing quite well for itself.

        • pigginz@lemmygrad.ml
          1·
          1 year ago

          How are the rights of the poorest of the poor in China? In a lot of parts of the US, being out as queer puts you at high risk of homelessness and unemployment, especially if you’re a teen, and that can be an extremely hard trap to escape. Marriage equality, access to HRT, etc. are important, but the US by design will not guarantee anyone the right to simple survival, and in my opinion that’s the most basic and most important of LGBT rights.

          • Munrock ☭@lemmygrad.ml
            1·
            1 year ago

            There isn’t really ‘human rights’ so much as ‘human needs’. People need to eat, and a government declaring in its constitution that people have the right to food doesn’t validate that need any more than saying they don’t have the right to food doesn’t mean they don’t need it. That’s a cultural and ideological difference that’s worth pointing out because liberals will say ‘China literally has no human rights’ as a gotcha when it’s really just a technicality.

            Another way to put it:

            • People have needs. Usually an unfulfilled need means death or unacceptable suffering.

            • Liberal democratic governments bestow human rights on individuals to validate people’s needs, prohibiting themselves or anyone else from denying people those needs.

            • Democratic Centralism (or at least China specifically) bestows responsibilities on organs of government to ensure people’s needs are met, requiring organs of government to provide for those needs.

            So when you talk about someone’s rights, that’s things like the right to farm a certain plot of land, the right to build a house in your ancestral village, the right to demand a refund for a defective product. Meanwhile food, healthcare, shelter, life, liberty, pursuit of happiness are all needs, and when governments declare people have the ‘right’ to their needs, they’re just creating an extra layer of rhetorical complexity that allows them to avoid taking responsibility.

            Sorry for such a long tangent to your question; I just really wanted to point out that technicality. But yeah so taking your question to mean the needs of the poor rather than their rights, China has improved tremendously from the poverty alleiviation scheme. Being out as queer is trickier though, because the organ of government responsible for a lot of your needs is your home province, while as a queer person you almost definitely want to be living in the cities. Unless your home province is actually one of the cities, you’re kind of under pressure not to rely on the state for help.

  • Neodosa@lemmygrad.ml
    1·
    1 year ago

    The sentiment seems to vary quite a bit based on which platform you’re on. While scrolling Douyin (tik tok) I saw lots of pro-LGBT content and openly homosexual couples, lots of pride flags and so on (this compilation includes some of that). I also looked up the Baidu Baike articles on 跨性别 and 同性恋, and I thought they were really good. When it comes to state media, they also made some documentaries showing the LGBT community in a positive light. I also found this SCMP article quite insightful. Of course, we also shouldn’t forget that China has the world’s biggest gay dating app: Blued.

  • commiespammer@lemmygrad.ml
    1·
    1 year ago

    As an ethically chinese person and someone who wholeheartedly supports the CPC,

    many Chinese are extremely socially conservative. It’s a miracle the CPC has done anything at all with the sheer amount of straight-out conservatism that’s prevalent. Just look at all the people who are worried about ‘Western Wokeness’.

  • afellowkid@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
    0·
    1 year ago

    You might also be interested in this 2017 study, “Survey Report on the Survival of the Transgender Community in China” published by the Beijing LGBT Center and the Department of Sociology at Peking University: Brief, PDF. It surveys trans people about several things, including their methods of accessing hormones, how they feel out in public, rating different types of workplaces for how trans-friendly or unfriendly they feel, etc.

    As well as this one from 2018, “Legal Gender Recognition in China: A Legal and Policy Review” by UNDP and China Women’s University: Info and links to PDFs. This one is mainly a review that goes into detail about several laws that affect trans people and recommending specific improvements legislators, government ministries, businesses, NGOs, etc. can make. It also includes information from key informant interviews. (Article about the review)

  • Lil Kitai@lemmygrad.ml
    0·
    1 year ago

    Ooooh hell yea… China is still very culturally conservative. It reminds me of the youtuber CaptainCool07, even though he lives in San Fransisco. While he makes videos that give pretty decent insight into Chinese politics and history, his other content are however straight up lgbtphobic… talking about “wokism,” “family values,” etc. Bear in mind, this guy has also stated that he is not a communist/socialist, even though some of his content may appeal to MLs.

    • idahocom@lemmygrad.ml
      1·
      1 year ago

      Diaspora really isn’t reflective of the culture in China. In CaptainCool07’s case he got drawn into the conservative side of US culture wars simply because many “progressive” polices and politicians (especially in San Francisco) openly discriminate against Asians.

      The traditional Chinese position on LGBTQ+ was generally more progressive than the standard liberal position up until the 2000s. For example negativity towards homosexual relations didn’t really exist until westernization in the 19th century on[1]. In regards to trans issues it seems that like in many cultures there just wasn’t a conception of trans people, but at the minimum crossdressing had no stigma[2]. Personally I don’t think hostility towards western values is unfounded when it was western values that introduced homophobia in the first place. As a someone who is Bi I personally think arguments that appeals to traditional values or marxism are going to be much more effective than reusing western liberal idpol rhetoric.

      [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_China

      [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_people_in_China#Cross_dressing_in_Peking_Opera