Fun fact: George Takei himself complained that Sulu is portrait gay in the new movies. He said that even tho he himself is gay, he always played Sulu as a straight guy. But why would the headcanon of an actor be more important than any other
To be fair, John Cho played Sulu straight until it was revealed that he was gay. And even then, there wasn’t much gayness to his acting. Unless you count bringing a sword to a skydiving phaser fight, but I’d consider that more bad ass than gay.
Because usually when Hollywood includes a gay character they’re doing it to villainize them, make fun of them, or show them off to cynically virtue-signal diversity. Having a character that’s just a normal character who happens to be gay, without making a big deal about it or using it as a plot point, is rare.
Someone didn’t read the Hays Code or anything. He didn’t die (kill your gays trope), he’s not portrayed as a “for ever” bachelor (but has a same sex partner, very ungay). Only thing is crossdressing. He wears the same standard uniform that women do in Starfleet.
I didn’t say he was. That’s the entire point. They briefly showed some gay characteristics on screen, but otherwise he just played the character plainly.
I assume you mean “meet his husband”, but yes. There is a scene Into Darkness with his husband and daughter. But other than that and maybe a few mentions that you’d miss if you weren’t paying attention, they didn’t really put the character’s gayness on display.
It’s not just how Takei played it, the first thing an inhibition-free Zulu does in The Naked Time is to go after Uhura - and Mirror Zulu obviously has the hots for her too.
I mean, if it informs the performance meaningfully, it’s part of the end product. Doesn’t mean it’s necessarily canon or whatever, but it certainly has the potential to impact later performances if direction moves away from the actor’s previous internal preparation.
I could see it being off-putting to work under a director or with writing that bleeds your public personality into your role, especially if it’s one you’ve gotten to a certain place with.
Like even as a roleplayer, any character i might embody in the moment has a life of its own that’s distinct from mine, and would make decisions that I wouldn’t. If someone tried to push me into acting a way that’s more typical of myself out of character or that’s more in line with a different character I play, or if they reacted to the character based on that outside stuff, I’d certainly resist it.
True, I totally see your point. I think there are different ways to see this:
First, it’s someone else who played it so he wasn’t forced to do anything. It’s just a role he played and now someone else does with different interpretations. You wouldn’t blame a Hamlett actor for performing differently than their predecessor. Sure, it’s different since Sulu was brought into existence by Takei and didn’t really exist in a book or something but still a fictional character played by different people.
Since it’s just one little scene I didn’t even remember after the first time watching, it isn’t part of his story or character building or something. He is just greeted by his husband (or partner) and daughter. In my eyes more of a homage or easter egg to Takei than forcing his personality into the character.
Lastly, HolLyWood goNe w0ke aNywAyS. I don’t mean this negatively obviously. Media puts diversity into more and more places and it doesn’t even have to do with Takei himself.
Even tho I started the last paragraph with lastly, let me add that I think it might even have more to do with losing control of your creation. Sure, Sulu started as the character played by Sulu but he developed further. It’s like trying to force the genie back into the bottle. Sulu isn’t Takei and Takei isn’t entitled to control Sulu.
I can see how he’d be upset by it, and I don’t think it’s about lack of control. It’s like the people writing the character said Takei is just SO damn gay that they have to make everything he’s ever touched gay. Like the gay’s contagious. He’s contaminating characters with his gayness. Some people actually think that’s the way it works. Given his age i’m sure he’s seen enough of that to be upset by the implication. He’s an individual who’s lived a long and interesting life, not just some big gay caricature. Though he’s definitely that too.
George takei aside, i’m all for making more characters gay. Dial it all the way up. Sure worked for the she ra reboot.
Oh, I assumed he was talking about something written for him recently. Sulu showed up in Lower Decks not too long ago, and I know the franchise in general has a penchant for nostalgia at the moment. He certainly seemed to have a little more of a Takei tone in his LD appearance, but that may also just be him having grown more into himself over the years.
But yeah, if it’s someone else playing it and it doesn’t inform an established performance, then whatever.
Depends on the character, but usually the first one has the strongest effects, yes. It’s not out of the question for later actors to do the same thing, but very often in recastings like Sulu, the latter actor will emulate the former — to a degree at least.
Why wouldn’t the original actor be the authority on the subject? If they immersed themselves in the material and have a good memory, wouldn’t that be “the truth”?
Fun fact: George Takei himself complained that Sulu is portrait gay in the new movies. He said that even tho he himself is gay, he always played Sulu as a straight guy. But why would the headcanon of an actor be more important than any other
To be fair, John Cho played Sulu straight until it was revealed that he was gay. And even then, there wasn’t much gayness to his acting. Unless you count bringing a sword to a skydiving phaser fight, but I’d consider that more bad ass than gay.
Care to elaborate?
He wasn’t a Hollywood camp gay stereotype character.
Why would anyone think he would be?
Because usually when Hollywood includes a gay character they’re doing it to villainize them, make fun of them, or show them off to cynically virtue-signal diversity. Having a character that’s just a normal character who happens to be gay, without making a big deal about it or using it as a plot point, is rare.
I don’t know if that’s as true even in 2016 when the movie came out, as it once was.
Someone didn’t read the Hays Code or anything. He didn’t die (kill your gays trope), he’s not portrayed as a “for ever” bachelor (but has a same sex partner, very ungay). Only thing is crossdressing. He wears the same standard uniform that women do in Starfleet.
What is there to elaborate? Other than a brief embrace shown on screen, he didn’t appear to play the role in any stereotypical gay manner. That’s all…
Why would the character be a stereotype?
I didn’t say he was. That’s the entire point. They briefly showed some gay characteristics on screen, but otherwise he just played the character plainly.
Yeah, he played the character like a real person (who lives in space and brings a sword to a skydiving phaser fight) and not a caricature.
I’m assuming you don’t believe all gay men are stereotypes from 1980s comedies?
So, unless you were expecting there to be hardcore man on man penetrative sex on screen, what would “gayness” to John Cho’s acting mean?
I’m not playing this game. You’re obviously looking for a confrontation. You’ll have to find someone else to play with.
I’m not looking for a confrontation, I just want to know what “gayness in acting” means, and why it is apparently a problem.
Isn’t there a scene where he means his husband?
Sure but apparently there wasn’t much gayness to it
I assume you mean “meet his husband”, but yes. There is a scene Into Darkness with his husband and daughter. But other than that and maybe a few mentions that you’d miss if you weren’t paying attention, they didn’t really put the character’s gayness on display.
It’s not just how Takei played it, the first thing an inhibition-free Zulu does in The Naked Time is to go after Uhura - and Mirror Zulu obviously has the hots for her too.
Takei’s Sulu always gave me bisexual energy.
Source: my wishful thinking (aka my ass)
I mean, if it informs the performance meaningfully, it’s part of the end product. Doesn’t mean it’s necessarily canon or whatever, but it certainly has the potential to impact later performances if direction moves away from the actor’s previous internal preparation.
I could see it being off-putting to work under a director or with writing that bleeds your public personality into your role, especially if it’s one you’ve gotten to a certain place with.
Like even as a roleplayer, any character i might embody in the moment has a life of its own that’s distinct from mine, and would make decisions that I wouldn’t. If someone tried to push me into acting a way that’s more typical of myself out of character or that’s more in line with a different character I play, or if they reacted to the character based on that outside stuff, I’d certainly resist it.
True, I totally see your point. I think there are different ways to see this:
First, it’s someone else who played it so he wasn’t forced to do anything. It’s just a role he played and now someone else does with different interpretations. You wouldn’t blame a Hamlett actor for performing differently than their predecessor. Sure, it’s different since Sulu was brought into existence by Takei and didn’t really exist in a book or something but still a fictional character played by different people.
Since it’s just one little scene I didn’t even remember after the first time watching, it isn’t part of his story or character building or something. He is just greeted by his husband (or partner) and daughter. In my eyes more of a homage or easter egg to Takei than forcing his personality into the character.
Lastly, HolLyWood goNe w0ke aNywAyS. I don’t mean this negatively obviously. Media puts diversity into more and more places and it doesn’t even have to do with Takei himself.
Even tho I started the last paragraph with lastly, let me add that I think it might even have more to do with losing control of your creation. Sure, Sulu started as the character played by Sulu but he developed further. It’s like trying to force the genie back into the bottle. Sulu isn’t Takei and Takei isn’t entitled to control Sulu.
I can see how he’d be upset by it, and I don’t think it’s about lack of control. It’s like the people writing the character said Takei is just SO damn gay that they have to make everything he’s ever touched gay. Like the gay’s contagious. He’s contaminating characters with his gayness. Some people actually think that’s the way it works. Given his age i’m sure he’s seen enough of that to be upset by the implication. He’s an individual who’s lived a long and interesting life, not just some big gay caricature. Though he’s definitely that too.
George takei aside, i’m all for making more characters gay. Dial it all the way up. Sure worked for the she ra reboot.
Oh, I assumed he was talking about something written for him recently. Sulu showed up in Lower Decks not too long ago, and I know the franchise in general has a penchant for nostalgia at the moment. He certainly seemed to have a little more of a Takei tone in his LD appearance, but that may also just be him having grown more into himself over the years.
But yeah, if it’s someone else playing it and it doesn’t inform an established performance, then whatever.
I was referring to the 3 parter beginning 2009. Sorry if I didn’t make it explicit.
Idk perhaps because actors can imbue characters with unwritten properties through their portrayal?
But only the first actor?
Depends on the character, but usually the first one has the strongest effects, yes. It’s not out of the question for later actors to do the same thing, but very often in recastings like Sulu, the latter actor will emulate the former — to a degree at least.
George only came publicly out as gay in 2005…
Which is still before the 2009 movie …
Ah… I hadn’t noticed that this was only about the newer movies
Why wouldn’t the original actor be the authority on the subject? If they immersed themselves in the material and have a good memory, wouldn’t that be “the truth”?
Careful. Would you say the same thing about Jared Leto and his characters? Or <insert actor you hate> about <character they played>?