To clarify, I don’t believe in the surface level propaganda thrown in China’s way about “1984 dystopian society,” “Mao killed 60 million people,” “Xinjiang concentration camps” or things like that.

I’m curious about a few negative factors of China that have become widespread knowledge over the past decade or so by even the politically literate audience, and I want to learn how accurate these things are, how prevalent they are in today’s society in China, and how much it would impact the day to day life of someone living in China.

  1. Quality control, I have read stories about Chinese factories producing guns, steel, industrial goods, consumer goods, food products, far below acceptable or safe standards, leading to construction/infrastructure failure and severe health complications. There are also claims that smaller restaurants in China today still sometimes use very low quality ingredients that can result in serious health issues. How much of an issue is this?

  2. Population issue. The Chinese population trend is going in a unfavorable direction right now, and there are reports of young people not wanting to have children because of cultural and cost reasons. How much of an issue is this, and will China end up like Korea and Japan in another decade or two?

  3. Unemployment, it is a fact right now that Chinese people have a 20% unemployment issue due to an abundance of university graduates without sufficient jobs to match this supply. And this has caused internal competition to swell to unreasonable standards leading some people to straight up give up on their careers and become full time neets. Are there any positive trends or actions to resolve this issue?

  4. Education. The education system sounds terrifying in China right now, children as young as elementary schoolers having to sleep only 6 hours a night to finish their homework from school and tutoring services. I have also read that after the government banned tutoring of core classroom subjects, illegal tutoring services have become a thing. I would laugh at how this would be the most asian issue ever if I wasn’t so horrified by the situation. Is there any government effort to resolve this right now?

  5. Nepotism. From what I have heard and read, using connections to obtain positions and resources in China is still very common. How bad is this, and are there any reforms or policies tackling it?

  6. Mannerisms and emotional intelligence of the average person. There are frequent complaints about Chinese people being horrible tourists, being extremely rude, having the emotional maturity of a donut until at least the age of 30, and also taking advantage of anything free to disgusting levels (I have personally seen old Chinese ladies take out a container and fill it with ketchup from a restaurant where the condiments are self served). I understand the reasoning behind this, China in it’s current iteration is a relatively new country, and the education received by different generations varies massively in quality, with only really Gen Z on average obtaining a level of education that is on par with western populations. I just want to ask how bad this is in day to day life, and if it is tolerable.

Thanks for reading my somewhat long post, I’d appreciate any response, you don’t have to respond to all of my points, any point would be fine. I want to have a positive impression of China but these points are really bugging me right now.

  • urshanabi [he/they]@lemmygrad.ml
    1·
    1 year ago

    I have friends who say this about their parents (they are international students or have settled down in a different country after obtaining citizenship).

    What would you respond to that? I would think about disqualifying the ‘Chinese culture’ part of it as it can be a bit universal, but I wouldn’t want to invalidate their experience. So I’m a bit lost on how to interpret and inverse and it.

    • redtea@lemmygrad.ml
      3·
      1 year ago

      I’d perhaps say that just because someone is Chinese doesn’t necessarily mean that what they say about China or anything else is correct by virtue of ethnicity/nationality/citizenship. Someone from China is obviously going to know a lot more about China than the average westerner (standpoint epistemology – knowledge gained from experience).

      That doesn’t mean a westerner can’t know something about China that someone from China knows or doesn’t know. Even if they avoid book worship, some investigation can be textual, for example. In the same way, a Canadian from BC won’t know things about Newfoundland but a Chinese researcher might.

      Additionally, a generalisation is still a generalisation. I don’t know the exact demographics, but is it possible to make a generalisation that is even broadly true about, say, 700 million people (everyone in China above a certain age)? In a place where – like most other places but likely unique in ways due to its development – there are such differences between urban and rural populations and along borders bordering rather different places?

      This generalisation in particular seems problematic because it seems to rely in a strange way on the notion of ‘human nature’. Albeit a human nature that is only shared among a narrow group (which, again, isn’t that narrow as it must number hundreds of millions).

      It’s the ‘inherent’ part that troubles me most. It suggests (a) that every person in China of a certain age will be competitive and (b) this trait is by virtue of their ethnicity/nationality/‘culture’. I just can’t see it. Plus the latter is racist/orientalist. The OP’s qualification, which I thought was okay, was that it’s generational. I’d argue that generational generalisations (that’s a mouthful, sorry) are flawed, too, but they’re not necessarily racist/orientalist.

      If Chinese people say the elder generation is culturally different to the younger… well, my response would depend on the context. It doesn’t seem to be an outrageous claim. But if a westerner repeats that Chinese people (of a particular generation? I’m unsure about that part) are inherently anything due to their culture… it would raise red flags. And not the good type. Again, I think the OP suitably qualified what they were saying.

      If I were speaking with someone from China and they said that, I’d be more curious than anything else, I think. I’d want to ask about the generational changes and their causes. I’d want to ask whether the party neglected the elder generation(s) and why. Again, it would depend on the context. If they were a liberal making liberal claims, I’d challenge their liberalism. Otherwise, I’d probably ask the same questions that I’d ask of anyone making claims about inherent features, culture, etc, knowing that someone from China will likely be able to tell me more than a westerner on this topic.

      For a generalisation of my own, I’d assume that some (many? most? a few? I don’t know the stats) of Chinese foreign students in the west are children of ‘middle-class’ families whose parents could afford to pay for private tuition, etc. If this is who you’re talking to, their views will reflect their class position. I can’t see the same kind of competitiveness and approach among those families who have only recently been lifted out of poverty (which is roughly half the population – not the same half from above).

      The children at a private school in the west might also think that ‘every’ parent is hyper-competitive about their children with extra tuition and classes, etc. If they grew up and went to another country, how accurate of a picture could they paint for their hosts? If they’re the son of a wealthy Australian wine maker, how much of the culture/attitude could they realistically tell of the life of indigenous people or of poor white settlors?

      They won’t have direct experience of all Australian life. But redtea, you reject standpoint epistemology! Indeed, the Australian wine-heir could get knowledge about other aspects of Australian life from other sources, but how likely is that of, say, a 20-year old undergraduate who hasn’t yet learned, say, sociology because they went to study that in Massachusetts?

      Now if made the example a bit more specific and were talking about the culture among a certain sub-set of parents of a certain income with certain jobs (or not-jobs), etc, much of my critique might not apply. Because that would use ‘culture’ in a different way to how I interpreted it here initially.

      EDIT: Sorry, I do go off on one sometimes!