I don’t care if anyone has a Xiaomi, Oneplus, Samsung, etc. Each brand is using a modified version of Android, and they chose to be compatible with each other. But for example the “blue vs green bubble” drama is a thing specifically because of Apple locking their unsuspecting users into a closed ecosystem. And it sure isn’t Android’s fault for not being compatible with it.
The more power a company like this gains, the worse will it be for the whole industry.
Your phone privacy is owned by your isp and the OS maker. You arent doing the world any better being on android. Google is fucking awful too. Both are awful and should be broken up. They are way too large and powerful and only having 2 phone OSes in the world everyone runs made by 2 greeeeedy ass corporations is the problem neither of you can solve gloating about which evil corp you give money to to interact with modern society.
This was exactly my point, I’m not lining up for an iPhone or an android. The lack of choice is what drives me to buy apple because when the time comes for a new phone it’s one or the other and I prefer the experience on iPhone. Really I would rather not give my money to either but there are no viable alternatives. I would not criticize anyone for buying android or apple, it’s a matter of what kind of shit sandwich do you want to eat, and it’s terrible.
Install GrapheneOS , it is degoogled, and security focused. if you want play store it runs inside a sandbox so Google isn’t in all your biz. Also has Mic and Camera shutoff options for the paranoid types.
I do miss Symbian smartphones. Nokia was the shit back then
I have one of each. I guess I’m Chaotic Evil.
So i support Google by using an open source OS? Just because your phone uses Android dosent mean it has any Google services included. Since Android itself is open source, there are many Android OSs that dont include any Google Software.
Network effect. Same reason why you should use firefox (or alts) as much as possible over chromium (or alts).
Technically, you support google when you buy a phone that ships with licensed android including all Google’s shitware preinstalled
Yeah, but unfortunately it is impossible to buy a phone without that
Thats my point.
Or tell them “Apple shouldn’t restrict users like this” and suddenly “It’s their platform!”
Nah dude. It’s your phone. That’s what the money was for.
I have used a number of android phones and iPhones, and I can say that the experience on an iPhone is vastly superior to anything android has to offer. Until that changes, this problem is going to continue.
Companies can keep pumping out dogshit all they want and slapping a different coat of paint on it, at the end of the day it’s still dogshit.
Someone needs to build an OS superior to apple’s that is designed exclusively and optimized for the hardware of the phone, and it seems unlikely that will ever happen. Also that fact in and of itself is the reason iPhones are and will always have a superior user experience than anything android has to offer.
I would love to see something similar that is more secure, more privacy focused, and still has as good of a user experience as an iPhone, but this is an accessibility vs security problem.
Apple has leveraged what they once touted as a safer option because they would look after the security part on behalf of the user and twisted it into a more sinister business model (or perhaps that was always the M.O.)
You are describing GrapheneOS. Privacy and Security focused and built to run on Pixel phone hardware only.
If what I read is true that does sound promising, but still leaves consumers with a number of issues.
You still need to support google to get this phone, (if part of the goal is to not support companies with questionable business practices) and while GrapheneOS does look promising I still have my doubts on the user experience.
From what I have read I believe you would need to install this OS yourself on the device. That to me is more of a workaround than a solution.
The typical user isn’t going to want to install a custom OS. This isn’t a product that is readily available to consumers to purchase through conventional means as far as I can tell. (I may be wrong on that, but it doesn’t appear that I could walk into a carrier store and purchase one ready to go).
Yes, the Pixel has specific hardware and security which makes it ideal for a private/secure phone. So it is unfortunate that a purchase supports Google, however the pixels are cheap so I assume Google is taking a profit loss to gain market (and data).
Graphene does have a web installer, so rather than the old days of connecting to a command shell and typing cryptic commands( for the average user) you connect your phone and click the web install buttons in order till you reach bottom of webpage. it gives you an instruction how to boot the phone into certain modes with volume and power buttons. While my mom isn’t going to work with this a 9-10 year old could do it.
/e/ OS was selling preinstalled phones, I haven’t seen the same from GrapheneOS yet…but I have not checked in depth to see if somebody is offering this.
Preinstalled is where it needs to get to though.
Someone needs to build an OS superior to Apple?
IOS is a very bad OS. I really took android for granted until I had to manage iPads for work. Short list: You can’t have a management app auto start. So if someone locks themselves out of their device without manually opening the management app, they’re screwed and need factory reset.
Apps aren’t built to auto scale to device? I literally couldn’t believe my eyes the first time I tried to run an iPhone app on an iPad and it showed as phone sized screen in the middle of this iPad pro. Android is so well made that you can resize windows on the fly and most apps react just fine.
Thank goodness we paid for an extremely expensive MDM solution, because there’s no way to install apps without making every single user make an Apple account.
I’m not saying it’s perfect, but the typical user experience is vastly superior to anything android has to offer. I’m also specifically referring to phone os. Not tablets. I really don’t like apple as a company, but user experience on apple vs android phones are like night and day.
I work in IT for a school board and yeah, the support of iPads is straight shit, so I feel your pain.
It’s really not.
Even just how Apple handles apps. If I asked you which company would present their apps in a neat organized alphabetized list that you can quickly scroll or search through, and which company would just dump them all in a mass of garbage on your homescreen and make you search for them, you’d assume it would be Google that forces you to search, but nope, that’s Apple’s terrible UX for managing the most basic aspect of a smartphone.
Literally just scroll all the way to the right on the home screen, there’s your category/alphabetical app list.
A feature added late to iOS, and one they have hidden behind the pile of homescreens you have since every app you install is just dumped on them. On Android you swipe up from anywhere on the homescreen and you immediately search or browse.
Fanboy wars are exhausting, stupid, and unproductive.
You will be a happier person when you stop giving a shit about what phone or operating system someone else uses.
OPs point is also that they’re exhausting. If you try and make a legitimate criticism of Apple’s monopolistic behaviour as a trillion dollar corporation, then you just get flamed by Apple fanboys.
Idk where they got a fanboy war when people here are like “fuck google” and “fuck Apple” if anything it’s anti-fanboying
Depends why you made that criticism. I hate Apple as much as the next guy but the post makes it seem like the creator is the one who typically initiates a targeted and unwarranted attack at the user specifically (“…accuse him of supporting an evil…”) as soon as they see an iPhone in their hand and then gets mad when they retaliate
Exactly. As an iphone user (and linux sysadmin, compartmentalization is not that hard), i agree with your criticisms of apple most of the time. They just make the better phone IMHO, and I say that as a nexus 4, nexus 6p, pixel XL, oneplus 7 pro, and oneplus 9 pro user. Yes i used custom roms, no I do not have the patience to treat my phone as a linux project anymore.
I regularly have android users go out of their way to try and fight me over this, and they always claim I must not have used android. It’s annoying to field over and over.
Guess I’m no longer an Apple fan. Huh. I’m just locked in at this point. Switching would just spread my data around more and I’m already committed to not upgrading for a few years.
On Android you can make a hell of a lot more choices on where your data goes. The vast majority lives on my nas… and i can call back to it any time i want. Personal cloud of sorts.
Constantly amused at how hard android users defend their choice and act like it’s iPhone users doing the same.
Always reminds me of the way right wing / Trump supporters behave. They are obsessed with liberals and the Democratic Party in then same way android users are obsessed iPhone users and Apple.
As an iPhone user, I spend no time thinking about android users and I certainly don’t post threads looking for others to validate my purchase.
I never think about iPhones until I’m forced to enroll one into my MDM and Apple makes me use their terrible Apple Configurator 2 or some iPhone user lightheartedly mentions my green bubbles. As always the squeeky wheels are gettin’ greased.
As an Android user, I’ll offer my side to this:
If I had a dollar for every time a friend or family member asked, “Why don’t you just get an iPhone?” I could probably buy the newest iPhone. Added pain that I’m Gen Z in the US where something like 80-90% of people my age use an iPhone.
I swear most of the time people treat having an Android phone as something that needs some sort of defense because they think there’s no reason anyone would possibly consider buying anything other than an iPhone.
And why do they make those offers? Perhaps because you’re complaining about your device and the problems are things that Apple users never encounter?
And that doesn’t explain why android users complain in pseudo-anonymous forums about Apple users. Apple users aren’t making memes about how android users are foolish.
If it’s because real life friends and family suggest they get an iPhone, that’s incredibly passive aggressive.
To your first point, it isn’t really an “offer.” I don’t think I’ve ever complained about having an Android phone, because I’ve genuinely liked my Android phones way more than my old iPhone. It pretty commonly comes up whenever communication is involved though because I end up being blamed for not having FaceTime, iMessage, etc. even though most of those problems come from Apple only supporting a messaging standard from the early 90s with Android phones.
To your second point, there are memes though. They’re probably not as common on here because the demographic that uses lemmy (or even Reddit to some degree) is more likely to have an Android phone for various reasons. Look up “android camera meme” if you want a clear example of something that usually isn’t even true.
I’m not going to go after anyone for using an Apple product, because I can see why someone would use one over Android. But Apple tends to attract people that will blindly defend their bad decisions (no headphones jack, no charger, slow refresh-rate screens on everything but the $1000 model, etc.).
This isn’t to say there aren’t similar people defending companies like Samsung, Google, etc. Apple just attracts these people at a whole different level. This meme is obviously hyperbole but to be fair you could make this meme about any obnoxious fan group and it would be just as true.
Edit: fixed a grammar mistake, clarified a sentence with italics
I always see android users bitching about non android phones. On the other hand, I NEVER see iPhone users who give a shit about android or complain about them. Interesting….
For me, an Android for personal, iPhone for work.
One of them is a phone that mostly works the way I want it to; the other is a phone that…mostly works the way I want it to.
“My personality is based on the fact that I have an iPhone.”
Its looking more like y’all’s personality is based on the fact other people have iPhones.
Back on reddit, there was a subreddit called non-golfers. It was created to poke fun at atheists, being a metaphor for a community around something they don’t like. It grew, with newcomers not understanding the joke and taking it seriously and unironically being a community about hating golf. (I was one of those people, I’m self aware now). It kinda strikes me as human nature, tribalism, rearing its ugly head once again. I’ll leave you with this relevant video, highly worth the watch.
It’s amazing how many subreddits fell victim to the satire to unironic hate club lifecycle. And that video was great. Especially the part at the end about how groups make their own totem/straw men to keep the anger up.
Yeah. For the most part those communities seemed to have not jumped to lemmy which I’m grateful for. I think hate is like the fast food of emotions, it’s addictive and we love it but it’s bad for you and eating nothing but that will fuck you up. That video really fundamentally changed how I view things on the internet and if there’s one thing I really wish I could expose more people to, that’s it.
iphønes users live in Plato’s cave
I use my iOS devices for convenient basic computing / communication. I use my actual computer for actual computing. I live in a multiverse thank you very much.
Well, Samsung’s are a bit more modified.
“blue vs green bubble” drama
is not real… it’s some bullshit marketing thing… nobody cares what kind of phone you have
It absolutely is real.
Source: my own experience for the last four years
Then you are hanging around with highschool kids that care what shoes you wear. I guaranty nobody working and living a proper life gives a shit on text bubble colours
Those colors represent the type of message sent: encrypted or not encrypted. From a privacy point of view it’s important.
If you wamted privacy you would not be using the OS delivered messaging app that IOS can read anyway to flag CASM. And the group can screenshot and share. if you actually wanted privacy you would be using a tool like Session.
They’re kids and plus most of it is subconscious. None of them are mean or anything about it. I can assure if I was to ask them, they’d all say it’s totally fine and they don’t mind at all and they understand, but still they end up sending one less text because they have negative feelings associated with it and thus their brain brings it up a little less.
Maybe nobody working gives a shit right now, but if this is how the kids are growing up, it’s gonna keep becoming a bigger problem
Then that is an education issue. Part of our curriculum was decoding advertising and marketing used to manipulate consumers. it seems this has to be readded at schools.
Does the year you were born start with “20”?
what have you experienced?
peers being frustrated because I have an android… being left out of group chats because people don’t wanna break their existing imessage groups… having to constantly bother people about not sending videos/images over text because they become a blurry mess… frequently apologizing just for having an android…
And also a general awareness I’ve developed that I have been left out of things… harder to know because, well, I was left out.
Mind you I am probably in the single worst location for this in terms of mindshare. By my unscientific observation, ~0.5% of students had an android at my school.
yeah, i was a poor kid in a rich school…
i really don’t think it’s the phone…if it was 1860, you’d be excluded for have a subpar quill and ink…
Yeah, defnitely not a thing in Brazil. We get rich idiots bragging about their iPhones, sure, but the text bubble thing never came over.
… Broadly because we don’t. Text in Brazil. We use WhatsApp or Telegram.
SMS/MMS was never really a thing here.
tell that the social cliques in high school. its marketing and its real.
source: kids.
If it isn’t the phone, it is shoes, or other stupid shit. people grow up and the realize that none of that stupid shit matters
it’s marketing thus seems more real than it is.
there will always be kids who treat poor kids bad for not having the cool new expensive stuff…
but that’s a classist problem, not limited to phones.
see also: jeans, shoes, makeup, e-bikes, pokemon, everything else
also, all the really cool kids use signal messenger and don’t use stock text messaging apps…
oh, understood. just saying that the marketing of social shame has been strategically exended into the colour of your text bubble pixels… from the “think different” company.
signal gets installed on every phone in my house, but the kids are drawn to where the other kids are and Apple snobbery is rife in the area I am in.
well your kids are really cool…
i wonder how much is actually apple, and how much is standard classist kid stuff…
there was a recent hydroflask craze with the kids around here… with kids chanting “sks” (sound at the end of hydroflasks)
but, i think that’s just because they’re nicer quality and expensive…when i was a kid there was a big deal made about jean brands in my school…
I would say the majority of it is just the usual human monkey brained reactionary garbage that our species has always dealt with. the concerning bit is how our own brains have been weaponized against us with untold amounts of money and time expended in learning how to manipulate enough of us to extract and realocate “value” from the many to the few.
I think we are collectively building a benificial immune reaction to this invasion of our selves, but the attack is so pervasive and so persistent that it is, quite literally, mentally and physically debilitating - certainly by design. will we just exhaust ourselves into submission or change paths and try something that does not culminate in a species ending orgy of consumption and conflict? I have no idea, but very few of our possible futures look particularly hopeful to me at the moment.
I do, however, try to hold on to some thread of optimisim - I need a reason to get up in the morning.
I appreciate the dialogue, fellow internet denizen :-)
Who fucking cares what high schoolers think?
its their lived experience and they are the future adults of our world.
if the insane amount of micro-targeted manipulation and pressure these kids face on a daily basis does not concern you, then your lack of empathy is self evident and there is nothing else to be said to you.
Yeah, because we never experienced that as kids ourselves
No, you didn’t, or at least not at this level.
Sure, TV ads and even some old games had ads which were targeted to specific demographics (their audience), but modern digital ads are targeted to vulnerabilities of specific individuals (using location, search, purchase history, etc.). They’re also shown much more often and baked into products which are specifically designed to target your subconscious psychology (using nudging, gamification, etc.) so you use them more.
The kind of data required for the level of ad targeting done now did not exist more than maybe 15-20 years ago.
You’re completely glossing over the fact that there was a whole different set of problems my generation had to deal with in the 90s. But sure, only modern kids ever struggled. We’ll go with that.
Obviously every generation has its struggles, but I was never disagreeing with that. If you treat this as “just another generational problem,” you are fundamentally missing the point. It’s as you say, a whole different set of problems.
Micro targeted ads are hard to ignore because most of the time they’re influencing our subconscious state. This isn’t just another generational issue we’re facing, it’s fundamentally shaping the way people look at the world without them even being aware of it. It’s not limited to just the current generation, because everyone interacts with technology. However, targeting inner psychology will obviously impact people with less developed brains more than it will impact adults, and we’re beginning to see the effects of that already with Gen Z.
Google is no better.
At least there’s choice with Android. I’d much rather it was possible for FOSS phones to actually exist but in the meantime the lock-in with Apple is an absolute non-starter, as is basically everything about their UX philosophy.
If Apple let my install alternate OS. I might consider the hardware.
It really just depends on if you prefer customization or reliability.
For example, I’m an apple boi because I like that every app in the store is made specifically for an iPhone (which is easy for devs to do since there’s little variation). It leads to better maintained and performing apps because devs can optimize for the device it’s running on.
On android, you have way more choices, which some people prefer. But for myself, I get really annoyed when I launch an app and it fills 95% of my screen, but not all of it, because my phone is slightly taller then the 2000 other variations out there. It’s much harder for a dev to optimize their app when there are so many variables to account for on android.
Neither phone (or company for that fact) is better. They serve different demographics of users is all.
Have you used android in the last 10 years? Im not the kind of guy who install 100 apps per day but i did not encounter this issue for a VERY long time.
I haven’t had one myself for a while, really anymore I just see it when watching vids on the flip phones or tablets it seems.
But android gave me the reason to switch (the messy apps) years ago, and apple hasn’t given me a reason to switch back yet.
It very well might be fine now, but until apple does something similar enough to push me to switch again, I won’t know haha.
Im running an android phone from 2016 with android 13 and last week security patches. Smooth as silk, no google, no ads, battery lasts 10h SOT. That’s the reason why ill never switch to Apple as daily driver (I have 1 provided by my company)
@AnagrammadiCodeina @BReel which phone?
Objectively speaking, Apple is a less evil company than Google.
I don’t think that’s a thing that can be said objectively. How evil a company is is entirely subjective.
Google is a bit better, Google allows you to both side load and unlock the bootloader. On those 2 things alone gives them at least a couple notches above Apple. Not to mention Android is designed around allowing you to customize things.
That being said, Google isn’t some savior, they’re still a giant corporation doing giant corporation things
I didn’t mean Android is no better than iOS, I meant Google is no better than Apple.
iPhone vs Android has always been more about trendiness than practicality in the social groups I’ve been in. We’re all still Penny from Inspector Gadget walking around with most of the world’s knowledge within arm’s reach.
I don’t get buying flagship models of either type for $800+ then only using them for texting in the default messaging app, taking photos that are marginally better than the photos three models ago, and social media/spotify with earbuds. And then paying like $90/month for service. Even the “budget” iPhone SE is still over $400.
You can get essentially the same setup on a $150 Android with service for $20/month. If you are in the small group of people who actually want to do more things with a phone like use unofficial app repos or turn it into an actual server that self-hosts all kinds of shit (web server, media library, a couple offer one-off applications all backed up in a cloud service) you can then do that much more easily on an Android phone, and for much cheaper. In fact, I don’t know anyone who is doing any or that on an iPhone anymore.
And when they stop releasing updates for your model, you can still install custom firmware that stays up to date.
cops can’t crack my iphone, but they can pop most androids instantly…
end of discussion
They don’t need to. They have the keys.
NOW it’s the end of discussion.
Only if user isn’t using encryption ( which is standard these days ) or has developer mode usb debugging left open
sadly, this isn’t true:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CellebriteSo I see a company thay duplicates phones, with no source on cracking encryption, other than their own company got hacked. And if you have a GrapheneOS phone you can shut off external USB. like connecting a cord , headset to computer does nothing unless you can login to phone and turn the USB option on.
Much of your data can just be subpoenaed and then provided to law enforcement without physical access however. Apple complies 90% of the time.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/sep/23/apple-user-data-law-enforcement-falling-short
Also, there are ways that LE can bypass your iphone’s encryption. Just doesn’t work all the time.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/4ag5yj/unlock-apple-iphone-database-for-police
GrapheneOS, based on AOSP, is really the only truly private and secure option. Android offering interoperability is not a downside and Apple having a walled garden does not mean it provides increased security. Apple is decidedly not transparent and this is ultimately not a good thing.
You’re talking about data stored in the apple cloud (I think without the account recovery turned off, but I’m not 100% on that). The same is true of googles cloud services.
Agencies haven’t been focusing on getting the actual texts that say “here I go, doing something you don’t like!” For quite a while because of the amount of variability involved. What I hear spooks talking about is building enough pc for a rubber hose interrogation with unsecured parallel data streams like push notifications.
Shows cop a PinePhone with main partition encrypted with LUKS
I‘ve had both and I hate both for their own specific reasons. But you can‘t be living with a dumb flip phone these days.
Or… can you?
In 2020 I tried to buy a burner tracphone at a Walgreens, and the clerk was just shocked and incredulous that someone might really want to pay money for such a thing.
@mkwt @SternburgExport I got one for my son for emergencies, not like the old days though the minutes expire after 90 days
They are all kind of terrible right now, at least for me. I hate what the big companies are doing, and the smaller projects such as Fairphone simply aren’t good enough yet. Guess I’ll try to make my existing one last for as long as possible, though that was already the plan.
i feel you, the fairphone 4 works well enough for me though. a lot of software/hardware bugs are yet to be ironed out fully, but fairphones are steadily getting better.
although the 6th gen needs to improve a lot, the 5’s launch was disappointing to say the least.
I also have a Fairphone 4, but I have encountered no significant bugs I can remember.
Installed LineageOS on it though, with microG, instead of /e/.
Can you tell me what issues you had?
the smaller projects such as Fairphone simply aren’t good enough yet
What is not good enough with Fairphone ?
Their 7 (?) years of software support is kind of misleading to me because they stop getting chip-level security updates after something like 3-4 years due to the specific Qualcomm chip they use. Not to mention the chip is on the slower side of today’s phones, let alone phones 7 years from now.
I can see how others might be fine with that though, just my 2 cents.
Display, battery life, performance, supported bands, software reliability, camera quality, etc.
I know I am one of those weirdos that asks for a lot from a mobile device, but I want something that can act as a high speed hotspot for 5 devices and a desktop environment at the same time, while playing back high resolution media and charging fast. This kind of thing has always been possible with Samsung’s flagship, but now every generation it feels like yet more is removed compared to the older one. I’m still on the S21U and while I’m not very happy with it, I haven’t seen anything better, including the new Samsungs.
Maybe I should set my sights lower, but it just frustrates me because these are all things my S9+ could do in 2017.
Power users get screwed over now.
