Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has canceled an Israeli delegation’s trip to Washington after the U.S. refused to veto a U.N. Security Council reso...
The US has been pressuring Israel to spare civilians since before they went into Gaza. That’s just reality. They haven’t followed the disastrous strategies that critics have demanded for exactly the reasons I explained.
Netanyaho is a far right maniac who’s popularity was based entirely on national security and who was facing multiple criminal allegations. There was no way that he wasn’t going to go hard into Gaza. The US could have pulled all aid and weapons deals on day one, and it wouldn’t have changed a damn thing - except that Israel would now be a Russian satellite state.
Ramping pressure over time is/was the best available strategy. That doesn’t mean I think the US did everything right. That doesn’t mean that Biden’s personal positions on Israel aren’t deeply troubling.
I’ll say it again. You got exactly the resolution you were demanding, and exactly the result that people like me said you would get from it. Take the L and learn something.
Please show me where anyone has “demanded” a resolution that will in no way be enforced, as the totality of action needed to stop Israel?
Netanyahu is thumbing his nose at everyone because he knows no one is going to actually do anything about his genocide. Stopping weapons isn’t about stopping the genocide, it’s about not actively contributing to it.
Actively stopping it would probably require a hell of a lot more than cutting off our weapon shipments, and no one but Netanyahu (yourself included) can quantify what that actual line would be. Maybe it would require international sanctions. Maybe it would require military intervention. Neither of those is actually on the table though, realistically, so not being active contributors is probably the best we can do right now.
We’re I at my PC I might dump a boatload of links to lemmy comments but, since I’m not, I’ll just tell you to do your own search. It’s incredibly prevalent in the more “tankie” subs, but they show up pretty much everywhere the subject is discussed.
The frustrating thing is that there are two groups doing it. There are right wing trolls pretending they care but actually just taking advantage to damage Democrats, but there are also good people arguing for the best of causes, but not understanding the dynamics at play.
When someone says that an abstention from a vote is “kissing Netanyaho’s ass”, it seems pretty apparent that the consider a lack of a yes vote as a moral failing.
How did you get from a vote on a particular wording of a particular resolution to “not supporting Israel”? Where did I say that anyone said the revolution would “fix everything”?
Are you arguing that the US is protecting Palestinians?
The US has been pressuring Israel to spare civilians since before they went into Gaza. That’s just reality. They haven’t followed the disastrous strategies that critics have demanded for exactly the reasons I explained.
Netanyaho is a far right maniac who’s popularity was based entirely on national security and who was facing multiple criminal allegations. There was no way that he wasn’t going to go hard into Gaza. The US could have pulled all aid and weapons deals on day one, and it wouldn’t have changed a damn thing - except that Israel would now be a Russian satellite state.
Ramping pressure over time is/was the best available strategy. That doesn’t mean I think the US did everything right. That doesn’t mean that Biden’s personal positions on Israel aren’t deeply troubling.
I’ll say it again. You got exactly the resolution you were demanding, and exactly the result that people like me said you would get from it. Take the L and learn something.
Please show me where anyone has “demanded” a resolution that will in no way be enforced, as the totality of action needed to stop Israel?
Netanyahu is thumbing his nose at everyone because he knows no one is going to actually do anything about his genocide. Stopping weapons isn’t about stopping the genocide, it’s about not actively contributing to it.
Actively stopping it would probably require a hell of a lot more than cutting off our weapon shipments, and no one but Netanyahu (yourself included) can quantify what that actual line would be. Maybe it would require international sanctions. Maybe it would require military intervention. Neither of those is actually on the table though, realistically, so not being active contributors is probably the best we can do right now.
We’re I at my PC I might dump a boatload of links to lemmy comments but, since I’m not, I’ll just tell you to do your own search. It’s incredibly prevalent in the more “tankie” subs, but they show up pretty much everywhere the subject is discussed.
The frustrating thing is that there are two groups doing it. There are right wing trolls pretending they care but actually just taking advantage to damage Democrats, but there are also good people arguing for the best of causes, but not understanding the dynamics at play.
But so, not actually the person you were responding to when you said “You got [what] you were demanding”?
When someone says that an abstention from a vote is “kissing Netanyaho’s ass”, it seems pretty apparent that the consider a lack of a yes vote as a moral failing.
Yes, but how did you get from “not opposing Israel is a moral failing” to “if we oppose Israel in a UN resolution, that will fix everything”?
How did you get from a vote on a particular wording of a particular resolution to “not supporting Israel”? Where did I say that anyone said the revolution would “fix everything”?
So, you are arguing that the US has been protecting Palestinians throughout.
Words fail me.
I don’t doubt it.
I don’t see it working. Pressure only matters when there’s real leverage at play, otherwise you get the current mess.