I agree with your goal and the spirit of what you’re saying completely, but we’re kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place right now. Unless something completely unexpected like multiple age related deaths or a violent revolt happens there are only two candidates with any chance of attaining the office. Which means we have to make a choice. A choice I hate making but I want to continue to make choices in the future so it’s one I have to make.
I do understand that take and desire for harm reduction. I am a trans person and my and my friend’s rights are constantly politicized by both parties. But even under Biden, trans people are actively being targeted in certain states, and under Trump, trans rights were strengthened in other states. The president can only (or chooses to only) do so much. But things the president can change include foreign policy, military actions… so I think refusing to vote for Biden over the issues he has the most direct power over is absolutely appropriate.
I believe that voting third party could enable long term change, and that voting for Biden is perpetuating the system that is already causing so much harm.
Ok so, Trump and the GOP are marching head first into genocidal fascism and you’re naive to think you’ll ever get to vote again if he’s elected. The president only has so much power because it’s checked, that won’t happen this time as the courts are stacked to allow christofascim and both houses of Congress are hamstrung with infighting. Some state govs will resist and I applaud that but it leads us into constitutional crises and in my mind civil war. As a trans person I think you should understand the threat to your very life if Trump regains power in this current political world we exist in. Biden fucking sucks all around but we buy more time with him, which is a shitty comprise, but Trump term two, signals the end of the United States and puts the final nail in the coffin of doing anything to mitigate climate change. Not to mention the dissolution of nato which he’s verbal said he’s inclined to induce, which means the end of Ukraine as a nation and likely a Chinese takeover of Taiwan, is also suspect a rollback in workers rights and more tax cuts for the rich.
A third party vote only matters when the message sent matters to the recipients. The only way it MIGHT is if Biden wins and democracy continues. Because Trump won’t give a good goddamn.
We don’t have the luxury of that right now and I hate it too, but it’s the lot we’ve all fucking drawn.
I think you’re thinking fatalistically when we have the capacity to try to change things.
a civil war sounds overall good? realistically, I don’t think there will be a peaceful dissolution to the United States (has this ever historically happened?), and if some states could escape and self-govern, the people in those states might be better off. a constitutional crisis is long overdue. also justifying a vote for the candidate who is funding genocide by saying you want to avoid civil war is kinda hypocritical right? war for thee but not for me?
SOME people are buying time under Biden, other people in many states are not doing well at all!
the most he can do is defund the military, which would weaken the United States ability to enact NATO obligations. And defunding the military seems good?? If he wants to do that for that weird roundabout reason.
also, the United States is only one of many countries in NATO. the states of Taiwan and Ukraine wouldn’t instantly crumble. and you’re so concerned about the right to statehood, but you’re willing to throw Palestinians under the bus?
the idea of the third party vote isn’t that Trump would care, it’s that Democrats would run more leftist candidates in the future and start trying to appease leftists instead of moving more and more to the right.
a second American civil war would be the most horrific, violent, and bloody war in all of human history and the species let along civilization would have very little chance at surviving again. Secondly if you think trump will stop Israel from genociding I have a bridge in Arizona. Biden hasn’t been funding Israel for 70 years we the American people have. Trump funded Israel when he was president. Yeah we’ll all be better off when there are insane Christian warlords sacrificing people to the Lord in Tennessee. Totally makes it seem like you have a foot in the reality of what a war within the US would look like
so are those people that aren’t going to be saved by Trump? Things will get better if you spite vote?
all Trump has to do is order the US military out, the rest of nato won’t do shit to enforce that because the US has the largest military and without it nato is horribly undermanned and would collapse in a domino fashion. You’re fooling yourself here. These are all things written on paper, fascists don’t give a fuck about shit like that
What the fuck does that matter if Dems never gain power again, which Trump will ensure doesn’t happen, as he’s pledged to go after his enemies
I’m done here and you’re blocked. I don’t have anymore energy to spend on someone so hopelessly deluded about the gravity of our current situation. I honestly hope you’re just a bad faith actor. Go to hell, I love you
oh I started to write a thoughtful answer then saw you blocked me.
You are the one who is hopelessly deluded about the gravity of our situation. Under Biden, we are already living under a totalitarian, racist, transphobic government. A civil war is a hypothetical, the genocide is actually actively happening right now with funding that Biden approved. Many Democrats have expressed enthusiastic support for Israel’s violence.
I agree with your goal and the spirit of what you’re saying completely, but we’re kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place right now. Unless something completely unexpected like multiple age related deaths or a violent revolt happens there are only two candidates with any chance of attaining the office. Which means we have to make a choice. A choice I hate making but I want to continue to make choices in the future so it’s one I have to make.
I do understand that take and desire for harm reduction. I am a trans person and my and my friend’s rights are constantly politicized by both parties. But even under Biden, trans people are actively being targeted in certain states, and under Trump, trans rights were strengthened in other states. The president can only (or chooses to only) do so much. But things the president can change include foreign policy, military actions… so I think refusing to vote for Biden over the issues he has the most direct power over is absolutely appropriate.
I believe that voting third party could enable long term change, and that voting for Biden is perpetuating the system that is already causing so much harm.
Ok so, Trump and the GOP are marching head first into genocidal fascism and you’re naive to think you’ll ever get to vote again if he’s elected. The president only has so much power because it’s checked, that won’t happen this time as the courts are stacked to allow christofascim and both houses of Congress are hamstrung with infighting. Some state govs will resist and I applaud that but it leads us into constitutional crises and in my mind civil war. As a trans person I think you should understand the threat to your very life if Trump regains power in this current political world we exist in. Biden fucking sucks all around but we buy more time with him, which is a shitty comprise, but Trump term two, signals the end of the United States and puts the final nail in the coffin of doing anything to mitigate climate change. Not to mention the dissolution of nato which he’s verbal said he’s inclined to induce, which means the end of Ukraine as a nation and likely a Chinese takeover of Taiwan, is also suspect a rollback in workers rights and more tax cuts for the rich.
A third party vote only matters when the message sent matters to the recipients. The only way it MIGHT is if Biden wins and democracy continues. Because Trump won’t give a good goddamn.
We don’t have the luxury of that right now and I hate it too, but it’s the lot we’ve all fucking drawn.
I think you’re thinking fatalistically when we have the capacity to try to change things.
a civil war sounds overall good? realistically, I don’t think there will be a peaceful dissolution to the United States (has this ever historically happened?), and if some states could escape and self-govern, the people in those states might be better off. a constitutional crisis is long overdue. also justifying a vote for the candidate who is funding genocide by saying you want to avoid civil war is kinda hypocritical right? war for thee but not for me?
SOME people are buying time under Biden, other people in many states are not doing well at all!
Trump can’t dissolve NATO by himself https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/13/politics/congress-trump-nato-what-matters/index.html
the most he can do is defund the military, which would weaken the United States ability to enact NATO obligations. And defunding the military seems good?? If he wants to do that for that weird roundabout reason.
also, the United States is only one of many countries in NATO. the states of Taiwan and Ukraine wouldn’t instantly crumble. and you’re so concerned about the right to statehood, but you’re willing to throw Palestinians under the bus?
Ok wow you’re delusional and unrealistic
a second American civil war would be the most horrific, violent, and bloody war in all of human history and the species let along civilization would have very little chance at surviving again. Secondly if you think trump will stop Israel from genociding I have a bridge in Arizona. Biden hasn’t been funding Israel for 70 years we the American people have. Trump funded Israel when he was president. Yeah we’ll all be better off when there are insane Christian warlords sacrificing people to the Lord in Tennessee. Totally makes it seem like you have a foot in the reality of what a war within the US would look like
so are those people that aren’t going to be saved by Trump? Things will get better if you spite vote?
all Trump has to do is order the US military out, the rest of nato won’t do shit to enforce that because the US has the largest military and without it nato is horribly undermanned and would collapse in a domino fashion. You’re fooling yourself here. These are all things written on paper, fascists don’t give a fuck about shit like that
I’m done here and you’re blocked. I don’t have anymore energy to spend on someone so hopelessly deluded about the gravity of our current situation. I honestly hope you’re just a bad faith actor. Go to hell, I love you
oh I started to write a thoughtful answer then saw you blocked me.
You are the one who is hopelessly deluded about the gravity of our situation. Under Biden, we are already living under a totalitarian, racist, transphobic government. A civil war is a hypothetical, the genocide is actually actively happening right now with funding that Biden approved. Many Democrats have expressed enthusiastic support for Israel’s violence.