Well, we have targeted a few industries, particularly clean energy, electric vehicles, batteries, renewables, where we’re not trying to dominate the globe and be the only country in the world that supplies these goods.
Janet Yellen
I’m determined to ensure that america leads the world in them
Joe Biden
make up your mind ghouls
This is basically a self imposed embargo that will ensure that we are outside observers to a world that is rapidly transitioning to renewable energy.
It will also be part of financial handouts to underperforming US tech companies
A tariff on imported goods to USA doesn’t affect global market of other countries importing Chinese goods you fucking genius.
It reduces competition for Chinese goods, making them cheaper and more accessible to less rich countries.
All those cars and solar panels that Chinese companies counted on selling in the US must go somewhere. Every other country in the world (excluding the EU, although to a lesser extent than the US) isn’t hell-bent on sanctioning China, their production will be just redirected elsewhere.
And since the US, biggest net importer in the world, just stopped… importing, there will be more goods sought after by less money, AKA more supply (old supply + goods that can’t profitably be sold in the US anymore) but less demand (since the US just passed these new tariffs) and as you know, this is gonna make prices fall, maybe not a drastic fall but still.
F. I’m trying to buy solar panels right now and China has some good ones.
That’s not how you ensure America leads the world in them. That’s how you ensure corps feel safe not doing shit to innovate anymore. This is just another form of a bailout.
Didn’t they do the same for Japanese goods back in the day? Not sure it helped the American automotive industry.
Doesn’t China subsidize what they export on top of having cheap labor? In that case a free market argument cannot really be made. The innovation in the US or elsewhere would have to be extreme shifts to compete.
Idea of free market is that it’s better than a manage market. If there’s room for innovation, the free market will find it. Central planning leads to being risk adverse and exploiting inefficiencies to soak up government money. So if free market is your religion, you shouldn’t be bothered that China tries to plan their production instead. Cheap labour also doesn’t hold since the USA has historically been happy to have their companies contract labour from cheaper countries. So if you’re losing due to Chinese salaries, just hire Chinese people.
Also, China doesn’t subsidise any of these exports. Then they’d lose money, and they’re exporting to earn money. They subsidise R&D and domestic sales of things that’ll make domestic companies more productive and competitive.
deleted by creator
Yes- it’s the United States
Steel I get. That’s an environmental issue since US creation is way more carbon friendly. However the rest makes no sense without an announcement in domestic investment that is pulled from currently used non-environmental budgets.
And did that money go directly into production?
Or did it pad some folks pockets?
Here’s some highlights from the sources I put in the original comment since you can’t be asked to open them…
Clay, New York: Funding will support the construction of the first two fabs of a planned four fab “megafab” focused on leading-edge DRAM chip production. Each fab will have 600,000 square feet of cleanrooms, totaling 2.4 million square feet of cleanroom space across the four facilities—the largest amount of cleanroom space ever announced in the United States and the size of nearly 40 football fields.
Boise, Idaho: Funding will support the development of a high-volume manufacturing (HVM) fab, with approximately 600,000 square feet of cleanroom space focused on the production of leading-edge DRAM chips. The fab would be co-located with the company’s existing, leading-edge R&D facility to improve efficiency across its R&D and manufacturing operations, reducing lags in technology transfer and cutting time-to-market for leading-edge memory products.
at least $40 million in dedicated CHIPS funding for training and workforce development to ensure local communities have access to the jobs of the future.
the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) through its Loan Programs Office (LPO) today announced the closing of a $362 million loan to CelLink Corporation (CelLink) to help finance the construction of a domestic manufacturing facility that will produce components essential to electric vehicle (EV) assembly. Located in Georgetown, Texas, the facility will develop lighter and more efficient flexible circuit wiring harnesses—sets of wires and related equipment that relay information and carry electricity throughout vehicles. Once fully operational, the facility is expected to produce enough wiring harnesses to support the manufacture of approximately 2.7 million EVs per year and create 165 construction jobs and more than 1,200 permanent jobs.
The official source for the solar for all does have a broken link which is supposed to direct you here where it explain each of the 60 grants that were issued.
To awnser your question, production.
It’s cool how you just take them at their word.
But my point is that none of this is being done efficiently. Instead, middlemen siphon money from the project to pad their pockets and stretch out the timelines for completion. I won’t be surprised if some of these projects go over budget, over time, or need additional funding.
Wake me up when these projects complete. Then we can look at how much they really cost and how long it really took and how much they really produce.
Love how you slide them goalposts around
The money does not go directly to production, that’s the goal post. It goes through a dozen people’s hands before the ground is ever broken on one of these projects, and every one of those hands takes their cut to pad their pockets. That was my point.
Located in texas isnt likely to sit well with baron von abbott and his henchmen
yes
This is helpful, thank you.
Wait we gave the Auto industry money for EVs and 50k SUVs were the result? Holy shit, that’s right up there with giving 4 billion to the telecoms for no actual network expansion.
Pretty sure the steel tariff is a bad thing too. There are certain grades of steel that just aren’t produced in the US. People threw a fit over it when trump did the same thing.
This dude really does not want to get reelected again. I hate that he’s the only choice. What a piece of shit.
“No” is always an option.
I’m not an accelerationist, so no, it’s not really an option. It’s cool that you feel like you have the ability to just say “no”, but I don’t. I have to live here, and if Trump gets elected then there is a very high chance I might find myself in a concentration camp before the end of his term, assuming he doesn’t find a way to abolish elections entirely.
So no, I don’t really have an option to just shove my thumb up my ass and refuse to vote.
There’s a very high chance I might find myself in a concentration camp before the end of Biden’s next term.
All that’s needed is for my red state to declare being trans to be a sex crime, the Supreme Court to decide 5-4 that it’s constitutional, and then I’m off to a farm. Biden and his supporters would do literally nothing and just use my internment in a camp as a fundraising pitch.
If you are arguing against voting, then I’d like to know: do you think your chances are better if Trump wins, if Biden wins, or do you believe they are indistinguishable? I’m having trouble understanding this.
I don’t think my chances are good under either President, but I also think Democrats are more likely to fight back if Trump wins. Trump saw the largest protest movement in American history. If the trans concentration camps happen under him then people will actually fight back. If they happen under Biden then people will just be told to vote harder next time so we can close the concentration camps! 🤮
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Always have to vote for the furthest left that has a chance to win and hope enough others follow suit. Our system sucks, but the biggest thing holding us back is how far right the country currently is. Even though depressing, your attitude is currently our best shot and I appreciate that you’re one of the seemingly few on this platform willing to voice it.
Man what a fucking idiot.
Trump can’t campaign so Biden’s doing his job for him.
Interesting word choice. China wants to “dominate”, the US wants to “lead”.
You can’t say the quiet part out loud.
I mean, of course there’s loaded language in all this. Are you also surprised at the language and rhetoric used by Chinese government and media sources when they talk about the US?
I don’t tend to see that stuff, but I wouldn’t be surprised.
hell yea FUCK the environment lmao
The real question is, what percentage of the product that they export is purchased by Americans? Because if that percentage is really low, it turns this into performance politics. Especially the one-upping of Trump’s economic war on China. The problem there of course being that it won’t make any difference; Biden’s never going to win over a Republican. What he needs to do is lean into the left harder so that he ensures a higher turnout. But he’s not going to, he’d rather stay his old-ass course, and risk plunging our country into a tyrannical totalitarian nightmare. I mean a worse one than it already is. You should be worried more about inflation, women’s rights, and not feeding weapons to Israel. But our country has an insane “Christian” hard-on for Israel so that’s not going to happen.
And by inflation I’m referring to everyday household products and food, not the stock market. People don’t care how good the stock market is doing when not only do they not have a direct stake in it, but even basics like food cost too goddamn much.
Repeatedly stomping on my collection of rakes to own the commies
these actions already admit defeat
Are iphones tariffed as well? It’s also from China
Technically. However, the end product is sold by a US company, so from the gov. POV it is fine.
Banning chinese manufactured products would mean banning a huge portion of the domestic market.
So US companies will buy things those from China, slap a logo on it and sell American Made goods at a h huge markup
Technically yes. However, most of the time, they just outsource manufacturing. Research and developement is still usually done in house. Apple for example, wrote the software and designed the hardware for the iPhone but assembles it in China because of cost.
Swiggity swooty the oil lobby is coming for your booty
Funds raised will be used to offset further increases in subsidies to the domestic oil industry
In all honesty they could use this tax and an extra oil tax to subsidise the shit out of solar and EVs
Yeah, except everyone has had it beaten into them - nobody fucks with gas prices.
Every news outlet in the country runs the same news segment practically daily - “Let’s complain about gas prices”. We’ve somehow made it the subject of basically nonstop discussion.
Every time someone brings up gas prices I’mma just be like: “you know where the cheapest gas prices are? Electricity.”
If people can afford to commute to office jobs in 5,000lb trucks the gas prices aren’t high enough.
I mean, there is a case for discussing gas prices since it’s the price of mobile energy for everything from tractors to trucking to electricity. The gas price, specifically crude oil price, used to be synonymous with energy prices so any increase in oil price would mean a major hit to cost-of-living increases.
It’s outdated as hell.
Heezul Schneezul, the future is diesel.
Disease-al
also Biden 🤡
Trump tariffs were too small.
That’s right, Joe knows how to protect the interests of American oligarchs much better than that charlatan.
I assumed this one was satire, is that a real tweet?
This is the top response on Twitter now.
I’m surprised they haven’t deleted it, but I guess that would be even more embarrassing since it’s already archived.
These go right against our goals to increase use of solar and EVs. ☹️
Really important for world emissions for the US specifically to transition to EVs too, considering it has the highest per capita road emissions in the world.
There is zero chance China is that far down.
Cope lol
EVs are expected to reach 45% marketshare in 2024 in CN. Also I guess you haven’t seen their high speed rail network expand over the last decade (pressuring their car market in general). Then you have a lot of capita. So yes the numbers make sense.
China has a lot of capita. Most of them dont have cars.
Most east Asian countries are fairly low down on the list. They have excellent public transport, the world’s best high-speed rail networks, and a significant number of road vehicles are already electric.
China is mostly building rail to solve its transportation issues, so this is completely unsurprising.
Interestingly, China and India, who were told are massive polluters, aren’t even on that list.
That graphic is limited to a comparison of emissions from use of roads only.
Of course, not roads only, the USA is still terrible and China and India are still not on the list.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/270508/co2-emissions-per-capita-by-country/
Most of that is because we truck everything and trains only get used for extreme bulk like coal
Don’t forget overloading them with hazardous materials, only to eventually inevitably crash and cause another social, economic, and climate disaster!
The big pickup trucks and large SUVs dont help either.
We can thank the US oil and auto industries (the same ones dictating these green energy tariffs to their political puppets), for that too.
I’d rather we ensure higher standards of safety and quality for our vehicles, which are already terrifying death machines, but the hit to solar is a real step backwards.
That’s a cop out. Cars aren’t getting registered without meeting safety requirements.
It does sadly. On the flip side, China seems to be trying to capture car manufacturing markets by subsidizing their producers. This would probably be a bad thing in the future if allowed. Hopefully the US government does more work on making it easier to purchase electric cars in the US(specifically the price) while also reducing the need for driving.
While true, the cost differentials go much deeper, and they affect all products & services.
Michael Hudson: America’s Neoliberal Financialization Policy vs. China’s Industrial Socialism
What exactly is wrong with a country subsidizing green energy products? Not only that, but making them available cheaply to other countries?
The US Government doesn’t want US automakers to lose market share so that they have plenty of manufacturing capacity that could be retooled to make weapons in case of war.
When a trillion dollars a year doesn’t commit enough warcrimes :(
Makes sense. Also petro-profits.
it undermines any less subsidized green energy industry which can lead to monopolies in the long run.
I’m not precisely sure where I stand on this, but I understand the primary policy arguments for this decision would be something like this:
The problem comes later, when a specific actor has an outsized market share and then exploits their trade advantage for other concessions.
It also prohibits domestic competition for those products, especially in countries with high standards of living and wages. This negates competition and innovation, since most corporations don’t have the ability to compete with an entity with the capacity to eat cost like the Chinese government.
The point of trade decisions, is to import products you don’t have enough domestic production to cover the demand for.
We know that the US auto and oil industries have no sincere desire to build EVs anyway (or any green industry whatsoever), because they did their best to kill their domestic production of EVs in the 90s, and there’s no US industry for solar panels.
This is all just part of the US’s trade war with China, that is prioritizing the profits of its auto and oil industries over the wellbeing of the environment, and the desires of its citizens for electric vehicles.
I can’t say I disagree with anything you’ve said. It really is silly, given the US auto manufacturer industry’s continuous fuck ups, and pulling out of EVs. But hopefully this makes risk taking more likely in other countries’ car industries to move into the US market. Tesla seemed close to really catching on, but then again EVs have always been seen as “elite” here.
But I suppose the question is whether there is that much demand for EVs? This could protect what demand there is, to at least make an even playing field for US or US ally made EVs.
Speaking to your first point: users of Lemmy aside, I don’t think there’s that much demand for pure electric vehicle yet across the US. We so routinely travel such long distances here, and charging infrastructure just isn’t quite there outside of urban corridors to facilitate the easy usage of fully electric vehicles.
So hopefully this can protect domestic or other countries’ industries until the idiots that comprise the US consumer market catch up to global realities.
But I suppose the question is whether there is that much demand for EVs?
Remove the tariffs / open up the market and you’ll find out. I suspect that there wouldn’t be a need for these tariffs if the demand wasn’t there.
They’re oversaturating the market with low-quality products. This can be a significant problem when there are safety implications.
Why can’t they just certify cars based on safety and ban unsafe ones instead of blanket ban the entire segment of them. It certainly helps the adoption of EV among masses.
This is what the NHTSA has done since its formation in 1970.
The Chinese cars are probably much safer on the road then the huge pedestrian killing machines built by US manufacturers.
Truck SUV moment:
It sounds you’re still stuck in the 1990s. Where do our iPhones and other smartphones and our laptops come from? Where do many of the parts in our cars come from? What country has more high speed rail than every other combined? What country has its own space station?
I’m sorry but this argument doesn’t make sense. Don’t you have safety rules in the US? If the Chinese cars aren’t safe to drive nobody should be authorized to drive them in the first place. If they are safe, no need for tariffs then.
This decision has absolutely nothing to do with alleged poor manufacturing quality. It’s protectionism, pure and simple.
Also there is no US auto-manufacturer is going all in on EVs, they’re all mostly building gas-guzzling oversized trucks and SUVs. US automakers intentionally killed EVs in the 90s, and hoped no other country would start building them.
Also no US auto-manufacturer is going all in on EVs
Tesla? Rivian? Lucid? Faraday? Fisker?
To be clear, yes, of course I understand that those are all luxury brands, but that doesn’t make your statement any less false.
No, the major auto manufacturers aren’t going all-in on EVs, but that are all getting deeper every year. There’s no reason to expect that progress to slow down, as they’re all quite entrenched in the technology at this point.
Average new car cost is $55,821, and average cost of ownership is $12,182.
The American manufacturers do not want lower prices. Dealerships don’t like electrics because there’s less maintenance.
Tesla? Rivian? Lucid? Faraday? Fisker?
To be clear, yes, of course I understand that those are all luxury brands, but that doesn’t make your statement any less false.
I mean, of course the explicitly EV-making startups are going to be all-in on EVs. The distinguishing feature that makes them not count compared to [established] US auto manufacturers isn’t that their stuff is luxury, it’s that they didn’t exist before and have no previous internal-combustion product line to pivot away from.
What companies have gone all in on EV making that isn’t a relatively new company/startup?
nice now the all the cartels will start wheeling and dealing cpus and evs woo woo…
