They’re like both not wrong
Sure, science is great and has lead to several great advancements. Science is done people.
People will lie, cheat, and steal.
Big little lies: a compendium and simulation of p-hacking strategies
In an academic system that promotes a ‘publish or perish’ culture, researchers are incentivized to exploit degrees of freedom in their design, analysis and reporting practices to obtain publishable outcomes [1]. In many empirical research fields, the widespread use of such questionable research practices has damaged the credibility of research results [2–5].
A recent Retraction Watch investigation allegedly identified more than 30 such editors, and kickbacks of as much as US$20,000. Academic publisher Elsevier has confirmed its editors are offered cash to accept manuscripts every single week. The British regulator said in January that one unnamed publisher “had to sack 300 editors for manipulative behaviour”.
AI Chatbots Have Thoroughly Infiltrated Scientific Publishing
At least 60,000 papers—slightly more than 1 percent of all scientific articles published globally last year—may have used an LLM, according to Gray’s analysis, which was released on the preprint server arXiv.org and has yet to be peer-reviewed
It’s important not deify science instead realize that it has issues. We should address those issues to help science become the ideals that we want believe science to have.
Also: https://xkcd.com/882/
It doesn’t have to be corruption.
This might be heresy, but I feel like saying that “science isn’t truth, it’s the search for truth”, and “if you disagree it’s not a disagreement, you’re just wrong” is internally inconsistent.
No, that’s the point. Disagreeing is already part of the scientific method. To disagree with science as a whole is to argue with the method, not the findings.
Imagine two explorers searching for a lost ancient ruins. They come to a path running north/south. One says to go north and the other says south. That’s a disagreement. They are both still explorers seeking discovery.
A third observer sees them arguing and says “Ah, you don’t know the way. We should not be seeking ruins because I already know what is there. I was told in a dream that the ruins were made by Bigfoot, and he made them invisible and impossible to see. Searching is futile, but I can draw you a map from what I already know is there.”
That’s not a third opinion of equal validity. It’s not even a disagreement. It’s just being wrong.
While I do agree with what you’re saying, and it’s a way of reading it I hadn’t considered, I don’t think the distinction is clear from the meme. Then again, it’s just a meme, so my expectations can probably stand to be lowered a bit.
I feel it should say something like “science isn’t ‘unchanging truth’, written in stone, but rather the unending search for truth”.
It needs to be “if you disagree without evidence.”
They can leave that whole “if you’re not a scientist” bit in the rubbish bin.
I believe they ment “If you disagree in spite of evidence.”
I disagree lol.
This is conflating science and expertise, but it’s probably still closer to valid than only “disagree without evidence”. A person with no background on the area of interest (or science in general) is likely not to even understand what constitutes evidence of a claim. The set of non scientist people who can produce a reliable body of evidence disproving a theory that has not been found by experts in the same field is likely so small as to be negligible compared to the set of non scientist people with “evidence” from Facebook/other who are in fact just wrong.
If you disagree without evidence, you’re not wrong. You can propose an alternative theory that is consistent with existing evidence and it’s just as valid as anybody else’s. The mission is then to find evidence which disproves one theory or the other.
Conjecture is fundamental.
Without new evidence, disagreeing with established science is being wrong. Young earth creationists are wrong because they have no new evidence to contradict established science. Even thoigh the age of the earth was scientifically calculated multiple times and could be revised again with new evidence, flat earthers are wrong because conjecture about existing knowlege without evidence is just being wrong.
A young earth creationist’s hypothesis does not agree with existing evidence and so your example does not refute my argument.
If you disagree without evidence you may, even by pure chance be correct, however without evidence and methodology to discuss it, you may as well be wrong.
The “you” here is misleading. Consider any scientific field, then now consider all the people you know. How many people do you know, if any, who can propose a theory that is equally valid compared to scientific consensus on some topic in that field? It’s unlikely most people are friends with Aristotle or the like or are themselves in that boat.
Is it theoretically possible? Sure. Is it more likely that you or I or the stranger who fills this theoretical situation is actually an over confident moron? Overwhelmingly yes lol.
This thinking just leads to science being turned into a religion. Knowledge being passed down from blessed people who perform obscure practises, and the masses being expected to accept it without question. Science should be open and understood by all. Then it has the weight it deserves and then you can have proper public discourse about issues.
In no way does this make science religion. What it means is all opinions aren’t created equal and if you want to have a valid opinion you have to do work. If you dont want to do work that’s fine, but 998 times out of 1000 your “contribution” is you looking like a dipshit.
If you want to learn it learn it. If you want to participate, learn it. Science isn’t just discussion between friends.
Edit: To be exceptionally clear, scientific discussion is NOT open to everyone all the time, and you have no inherent right to participate without preparation and investment.
Big Gravity clearly paying folks to say stuff falls down so they can sell more floors.
I once had a colleague who was raised to live by the bible, never questioning it. He was also a massive shitposter. No matter what dumb shit he said, he’d always say that it was just a joke.
Well, one of the few times when I genuinely caught him off guard, was when I explained that science did not actually claim to know the one and only truth. That it wanted to be proven wrong.
I think, that idea itself conflicted with his whole world view. Like, I imagine, his parents also raised him to never question their authority.
Which is why my father will die alone and without love. You do not demand authority, you earn it, and you better recognize when you’re being an asshole to your adult children. Also, don’t molest my niece and lie to the cops.
We all die alone. Get over it.
Wtf?
Nobody is going with you. Whenever it’s your turn, it’s only you. Sorry for it.
But there’s a difference between “dying and going somewhere with others” and dying surrounded by loved ones.
Yeah. I guess. Seems like it ends the same. Also, watch out for busses I guess?
Well yeah sure but if I have the choice I know which I’d go for! I don’t know what you mean though, what bu
Also, don’t molest my niece and lie to the cops.
WHAT. I’m so sorry…
We believe her and he’s a piece of shit. Don’t be sorry for me and she’s doing great! She’s got a lot of supportive and loving uncles. It’s crazy how fucking common the crime is and how a grown man can just… Tell the cops, it didn’t happen. Case closed.
She’s got a lot of supportive and loving uncles.
Lucky girl.
It’s crazy how fucking common the crime is
EXCUSE ME WHAT
And how a grown man can just… Tell the cops, it didn’t happen. Case closed.
Wait, so nothing happened? The cops left him?
Other than losing his family, no. Nothing happened. The cops thought my sister was lying or there wasn’t enough evidence.
That’s an unfortunately common occurrence when the police are brought in for crimes like this. Most sexual abuse is perpetrated by people who have a relationship with the victim, usually family. 1 in 5 women have been raped, a third of those women were raped between the ages of 11 and 17. 81% of women will experience some form of sexual harassment or assault in their lifetimes. Only 20-40% of rapes are reported to the police. Only about half of those result in arrest. 80% of the arrests are prosecuted. 58% of the prosecutions result in conviction. And 69% of the convicted offenders will serve time in jail/prison. So for every 100 rapists, about 3 of them will go to prison.
Uk those times where u see something that changes ur worldview quite a lot? Yea, I think this is it. Didn’t know the world was SO fucked up.
I feel that, sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I won’t take the opportunity to shill any specific outlook or worldview. Just know that there are people out there who have made it their life’s mission to fix societal ills like these. While it may be tempting to condemn the entire human race, it’s not particularly productive in the long term. The things you’re thinking and feeling now can be turned into action down the road once you’ve had time to process them and deconstruct.
What happend?
I know why people are voting you down, but it’s generally considered bad taste to ask details about sexual abuse. Giving details actually acts as a way for other pedophiles to get off.
I’ll leave it vague but factual. He was babysitting her when she was young and he molested her. She told my sister about it and she called the cops. The police believed my father and made it a “he said she said” situation between my sister and father.
I feel like this is a very “shoplifting, public intoxication, nuclear warfare, and jaywalking” way to present things.
This didn’t come out until later, because my sister and niece didn’t want to “destroy the family.” Once my niece was old enough she told us on her own and I guess that’s why I presented in that order. But yes, I agree.
That’s not even fully accurate because the scientists are doing the studies and achieving results that the companies don’t like, so the companies bury it.
The comment has some merit, some. Look at low fat foods and sugar for instance.
But I’ll be honest, there’s no “big science” I went to grad school for physics, taught physics, fuck publish or perish.
I now make a fuckton of money writing code and designing algorithms. Haven’t published in over a decade.
No one’s a winner in this exchange.
The replier doesn’t even know the plural for “company”
Why are we elevating this anti-intellectual drivel?
It’s not entirely wrong. There is absolutely a bias in what gets studied simply because it requires money to be given to study most things. For example, it’s why some more natural remedies like taking fish oil to help lower cholesterol took so long to have actual scientific backing; there’s no money in widely available remedies so finding funding to do the study was difficult.
You can see this really clearly if you look at more politicized areas, like economics. And for what it’s worth, it doesn’t mean that the evidence that’s generated is bad (although the conclusions drawn from it may be), but that it results in a lack of evidence for opposing viewpoints.
There absolutely is more money to be made in natural remedies, these days. People are selling chakra activating light emitting bracelets online citing studies that find no physical evidence of chakras. We live in a mad world.
All those studies being funded by mars to make chocolate seem healthy. it was on last week tonight
Wine producers were behind wine being “healthy in moderation” roo.
Which I find to be such an excellent example. Since red wine has prolonged contact with grape skins, letting it keep a lot of the flavonoids. It’s not incorrect exactly, but you’d still be better off eating grapes or drinking grape juice.
It’s all wrong.
Read Socialism: Utopian and Scientific by Friedrich Engels
Every other textbook I had started with an intro of ‘there’s no royal road to science’. Diamat is a handy heuristic. So difficult irl dealing with people who see human institutions, understanding, and even the universe itself as 100pct set and static, if it isn’t easy then it isn’t real.
Dialectics is an incredible way to derive all kinds of Interesting insights and truths, and materialism, like not even bourgeois science is materialism, its positivism. The combination should absolutely be taught to everyone, every worker, there is no better way to learn to “think for yourself”. But of course it is so totally alien that it is kind of hard to learn, especially when there isn’t much good info for learning dialectics, let alone diamat; especially in the west. That’s what makes Socialism: U&S such an amazing and impactful work
Unfortunate in the west they tend to teach dialectics (if at all) in general as a trichotomy rather than what it is.
Miss my homies over at hexbear
Oh man I can’t wait for the new patch on gravity
I’m sick of gravity always keeping me down
The kernel of truth here is that the disclosure of funding sources is an important factor when weighing scientific evidence.
That’s literally the opposite of what “theory” means in a scientific context. You know nothing of science and your opinion is wrong.
In my ethics course during the phd program, I was told this was actually a good thing. Their example was pharma companies know how to use their drugs better so they get better results, more true results. If that was true, it’s unfortunate it’s not the pharma company that also handles treatments then. That course also said that software patents does not exist as a concept.
Yeah, if I test my software all is good as well. As soon as the customer does something, he finds bugs, because I didn’t thought about that situation.
As the drug user in the end isn’t qualified enough, they should exactly test like that and not just what they think is right
But maybe my analogy isn’t completely working in that case…
There are several problems here. One being you cannot train every nurse or everyone self-adminestering the medicin to be a professional in it. Which was the hidden assumption made in the course. So “test it exactly like that” does not really work.
I think, I worded it wrong
Testing exactly for the results you expect is a good start to verify functionality, but you also need tests, that can bring up whatever, so you get a better view of the risk profile
But I’m not a pharmacist, so I’m just taking out of my ass anyway
