Why are knife control laws so strong in the United States as opposed to gun control?
I was realizing it would be nice to have a knife with auto opening for boxes, etc., basically a switch blade or similar, and I found out that they are super illegal in my state (and/or there are length restrictions, or both sides of the blade can’t be sharp, etc), but I can go into a sporting goods store and buy a pistol and ammo in under 30min.
Shooting open an Amazon box seems inefficient. What is up with restrictive knife-control laws??
You don’t need a switchblade to open boxes. A box cutter (hence the name) works just fine.
If you think box cutters are too blue-collar, get a multitool with a knife on it (a “pocketknife” with other gizmos).
A steak knife works fine too. So would the end of an axe, or the tip of a freshly cut key. That isn’t the point. But surely you know that…?
If your goal was to open boxes, then it was the point. If you’re saying my comment was not to the point, then your question about opening boxes was disingenuous. But surely you know that…?
You don’t need a blade specifically designed for stabbing to open boxes.
If you’re not being purposefully obtuse, then let me clarify: I said boxes “etc,” but the question is clearly about laws and regulation around knives vs. Guns, as indicated by the title, not about how to open boxes.
The idea that an easy-to-open knife is designed specifically for “stabbing” is idiotic, but I guess you unintentionally addressed the question about why these absurd knife laws are in place.
Also, for future reference, you can usually spot the questions by the sentences that are followed by a question mark.
Just line up the gun parallel to the tape so that the bullet rips it open
I feel you, I needed a bread knife to slice a loaf and there is a 4 day waiting period before I can go down to my FKL and pickup my turbo-bread-saw 9000.
Because knives are the weapon of choice of poor people and abuse victims that are lashing out while guns are favored by the white dudes
The weapon of choice of poor people? 12x more violent crime is committed using firearms than knives in the United States. You may be under the impression that all guns are expensive, but that’s not the case.
Also, your post implicitly categorizes people of color as poor, abused, knife-wielding criminals. That seems like a long, convoluted way to be racist, but you do you.
You were trying so hard to make this a race/class issue that you accidentally did a racism. 🤣
Pointing out that white men are a privileged class the law and especially law enforcement caters to is not in fact a racism.
That’s true. But implying non-white people are poor, abused, and knife-wielding criminals is. You just structured your comment in a clumsy matter, it’s fine. The conversation went somewhere more interesting and involved without you.
No actually, he’s right. Many knife laws were created specifically to target minorities.
For instance, the gravity knife ban that’s in place in many states exists because the state of New York realized that poor people who wanted to carry a safe, concealed knife on them were using gravity knives due to their low price making them more accessible than other folding and automatic knives at the time. New York saw a bunch of minorities carrying gravity knives, figured that they must be a “gang weapon” and banned them, and about half the other states followed suit immediately after. Some states have since reversed course on this obviously racist law, but many are still holding out. The ban has nothing to do with the safety of the knife, it’s only because lawmakers were afraid of armed minorities.
Yes, like gun control laws and the Black Panthers. My point was that guns are the overwhelming choice of violent offenders over and above knives, regardless of race. And it’s a general truism that more violent “street crime” is perpetrated by and against those of lower socioeconomic status in the US.
I use “street crime” here because that’s how it’s labeled in federal statistics AND because if we counted violent crime done through economic imperialism and corporate thuggery, it would dramatically alter that picture.
Nevertheless, saying that poor and abused people use knives and not-poor white men (implicitly, by way of being contra to the former) use guns is a sub-optimal and vaguely racist way to structure that sentiment.
That weapons restrictions are heavily rooted in a history of racism and moral panic in the United States isn’t lost on me. Even more complex when you add in the shifting terrain and definition of “whiteness” during the 20th century, e.g. Irish-, Italian-, Jewish-Americans et al., especially in the context of early and mid-20th century weapon regulations.
Nevertheless, saying that poor and abused people use knives and not-poor white men (implicitly, by way of being contra to the former) use guns is a sub-optimal and vaguely racist way to structure that sentiment.
I don’t disagree, but I think maybe we interpreted his comment differently, as the way I read it was the other person making exactly this point. I took his comment to be explaining from the perspective of one imposing such a law, as opposed to a belief they’re presenting as their own.
Even more complex when you add in the shifting terrain and definition of “whiteness” during the 20th century, e.g. Irish-, Italian-, Jewish-Americans et al., especially in the context of early and mid-20th century weapon regulations.
Yup! A couple other examples I can think of are stilettos and switchblades being banned shortly after Italian knife makers picked up on the trend, under the guise of being “mafia” weapons. One excuse they often go for is that the blade can be deployed too quickly, which is BS; you can give a 10-year old kid any old folding knife with thumbstuds, and with 5 minutes of practice they can deploy it just as quickly as any spring-loaded knife.
It’s a tale as old as time. Any time the feds see a group of people arming themselves, and they’re not white (or not white enough), they’ll bend over backwards coming up with any justification to strip them of their defenses.
My understanding is that the “mafia” thing is also why short-barreled rifles, silencers, and machine guns are heavily regulated. I’m pretty thankful for the latter, but the first two seem kind of silly to me at this point in time.
And then the poverty issue returns when we consider that the regulations require the purchase of a $200 tax stamp for the above. A chunk of change to be sure, but the price has never changed since its inception of these regulations in 1934.
An adjusted tax stamp for one of those ATF items in today’s dollars would make it about $5,000 for each stamp. You can see how, in 1934, that effectively kept certain types of weapons and accessories out it the hands of the poor.
Just get one anyway. It won’t do you any favors if a cop finds it but knife control isn’t a big priority for most law enforcement
EDIT: I am not a lawyer
Because knife control doesn’t have an entry on the constitution.
Are knives not arms?
Right, wouldn’t a hand grenade or a suicide vest count as arms? But I get shit for exercising my 2nd. SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!!
Similarly to religion and the bible, words mean whatever people want them to mean.
Because there is no National Knife Association to lobby for knife rights.
You definitely need to start shooting open your Amazon boxes
Not when he/she is buying dynamite though.
Do it. For legal change.
Heck, do it for science.
The US has strong knife laws? I carry a knife almost everyday and this is the first I’m hearing of this. The only time I can’t take my knife somewhere is if no weapons at all are allowed there, like government buildings.
I’m my state there are restrictions, but they are pretty much accessory charges that you won’t get unless you are a dipshit. You do have to have a firearms permit to carry an automatic knife though, I am not aware of anybody getting charged with that and that alone.
What is funny is you can have a ka-bar on your belt not concealed and be fine, but you aren’t suppose to carry a pocketknife with a blade over 3.5". Also if the fixed blade knife is sharpened on both sides of the blade, that is a no-no, but if it folds it is fine. I think they just removed the ban on butterfly knifes or it has the firearms permit exemption now, but I would have to check to confirm.
As you can imagine, the gun laws make about as much sense and don’t do much to help the problem of violence.
What state do you live in?
I went looking at every state I’ve lived in and the one with the most restrictions was Texas, obviously states like New York or California will be more restrictive, but the only real restrictions that I found outside of new england / California, were switchblades or “automatic opening knives”, and carrying in locations like schools and government buildings, which I expected. I used to carry a 8” hunting knife (13” overall) when I did a bunch of outdoor work, now I carry a smaller 3” folding pocketknife (6” overall).
It depends on the state, my state has almost no knife laws, but in New York (for example) nearly all folding knives are technically considered illegal gravity knives. Basically if you open a knife 99% of the way, and are able to flick it the remaining 1% open it’s considered an illegal gravity knife.
It’s pretty dumb.
Not anymore in NY, but yeah.
I moved to Japan where knives are also heavily restricted. If you live in Japan, you need a permit to purchase anything with a fixed blade over 15cm and it must be kept in the home. You can’t legally carry a pocket knife with a blade longer than 6cm (I think 8cm if it’s a folding but not fixed blade) and even then, if stopped, you need to have a specific reason for carrying it around.
It was really weird to me, as someone who carried a pocket knife basically everywhere. I did learn, though, that “in case I need to open boxes” is a case that has come up like twice in 10 years.
As for guns here, handguns are not allowed at all. There are licenses for airguns (pellet guns), rifles, and shotguns. Separately, there are licenses for trapping and hunting that do grant some permissions outside of what I wrote above (hunting/trapping license but no gun license means you’re going to be killing your catch with knife, spear, strangulation, drowning, or electrocution).
Interesting. I will say, I use my pocket knife usually at least once a day for one thing or another. They’re surprisingly useful for all sorts of tasks.
The permit requirement does not apply to kitchen knives, does it? Been some time, but I travelled to Tokio quite frequently for work, and always made it a point to go to kappabashi and get a nice cooking knife, some of the longer than 20 cm.
When a moral panic happens, a lot of things get blown out of proportion. A good example was the panic relating to D&D and satanism. There was a huge panic sometime in the 50s or 60s about the police dealing with young thugs with concealed switch blades, which could be hidden, and then deployed one handed so fast a cop couldn’t draw his weapon fast enough. So this panic got a lot of laws drawn up to ban any switch blade.
Since then, the there are knives that skirt the law by not having a spring which force the blade open, instead a tension bar. There are still types are illegal to carry if a Cop would find out you have it, like “Out the front” switch knives.
The stupid part is, there are plenty of “one hand deployable” knives on the market that are 100% legal. But the laws never get revisited. In my state it’s illegal to have a out the front switch blade, yet a bunch of high end OTF knives are for sale at a sporting store. They just post a sign that says “Know your local laws”, which some how makes it okay to sell.
If anyone has more to add, or corrects, let me know.
It also goes to show how laws made during the moral panic don’t go away even decades after that panic fades.
This is often in mind when responsible gun owners are critical of more gun laws. The govt won’t go “that was silly of us here’s your bit of freedom back” even if a law objectively had zero positive effect
For example, short barrelled rifles are still heavily regulated. Pistols aren’t nearly as regulated.
Yes for those that don’t know in the US any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches needs to have a buch of extra paperwork and a tax stamp to the govt to register it as a “short barreled rifle” or it is a weapons related felony. The government was afraid of gangs using easily concealed weapons.
The most basic standard rifle of the US military, the M4, used a 14.5 inch barrel. Even if everything else was legal for the average citizen to own by making it semi auto only, that barrel makes it a short barreled rifle by law. But add an extra 1.5 inches and it’s perfectly fine in the eyes of the law.
The way to avoid the pain of excessive paperwork and tax stamp is to replace the stock with a “pistol brace” and make it a “pistol”. You know, the category of gun used most by criminals because it’s easy to conceal.
Seems correct to me. Thanks for the thoughtful response.
The arbitrarity of some states’ knife laws is also a problem. I don’t remember which state (OK pre ~2015 law updates perhaps?), but I read about one that had few carry restrictions below a certain blade size (somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 inches, IIRC), and if you’re caught carrying one over the limit, you basically have to give a specific purpose for having it. Assuming your case goes to trial, this means it’s more or less up to the judge to determine if your use was valid, which is juuuuuuuussst flexible enough to persecute the “right” people. (assuming I’m remembering correctly that this was in Oklahoma, that would be Native Americans)
Switching gears; Some More News had a pretty comprehensive video about moral panics, which also includes some history on switchblades in particular, for those interested.
I think it’s 1.5 inches in Connecticut. Lol
The corrolary is that there’s essentially no knife control in Canada. There’s no length limit or anything. The law just states that you can’t carry a weapon. But if you have a reasonable reason to be carrying a machete (like going bushwacking) you’re good.
I think switch blades are illegal in Canada too, but I could be wrong
Yeah you’re right, that is one limitation. The rational is that it has no purpose other than being a weapon.
I think the difference between “assisted open,” which is almost always legal, and “automatic open” (e.g., switch blades") is very minor. They are both just ways of freeing and locking the blade for use. I don’t think either of them implies they will be used as a weapon. I would guess the laws are just stupid and, as another user pointed out, related to a historical “moral panic.”
Damned greasers and their switchblades and leather jackets. When you’re a Jet, you’re a Jet all the way, from your first cigarette to your last dying day!
I mean, those are reasonably weapons, no?
There are also length laws and switch laws. I know, because I once had a hunting knife that was slightly over the length limit. The RCMP insisted I grind it down and submit it for inspection.
However, such restrictions are use-based; you can have a set of steak knives that are over the limit, because their intended use is obviously not against humans. But if someone pulls a steak knife on someone in public, they’ll run afoul of the knife laws.
I once sat on a jury for an attempted manslaughter knifing that took place in a kitchen with a steak knife, where both participants were drunk at the time; lots of interesting arguments were made by both sides.
Because knife doesn’t have NKA to lobby for it.
I wouldn’t mind if they did honestly
There is a “Knife Rights” organization that works to overturn these laws. From what I hear, they tend to be pretty successful, since there isn’t a ton of attention on the issue and there isn’t much in the way of entrenched opposition the way there is on the guns issue.
I suspect it is because knives are not included in the second amendment of the constitution. That is a pretty easy argument for people to use against gun regulation (whether or fair or not), but there is no such thing for knives.
Knives are included in “arms.” In 2008, the Supreme Court ruled in Heller that the term “arms” has the same meaning as it did in the 18th century and includes anything that can be used for defense, carried for offensive or defensive action, or used to strike another person.
Laws on the books generally don’t get overturned unless they are specifically mentioned in a court ruling, or there is some action by a legislative body. If you want to be able to buy/sell switchblades, you could challenge the law and see where it goes. But apparently nobody has bothered to take it to court.
Wow, thanks for sharing that! So much for my thought… It makes yours more poignant though. Perhaps it is just a matter of obsession? Are the folks who obsess over firearms different than the folks who obsess over knives?
I guess knives aren’t socially seen as defensive arms even if legally they are
Butterfly knives only became legal in NY and MA about 4 years ago. There’s virtually zero reason to ban them other than protecting stupid people from accidentally cutting themselves
(I’m one of those stupid people)
They were banned because racism. Not because of any particular danger to the user.
I had one of those in high school and took it with me to a school trip in my back pack. We were at camp (think log houses) for three nights and I started spinning the blade daily. Lots of cuts (mostly on my hands) later I’ve learned to flip it like a pro. I can still do it to this day if someone hands me one. It’s like biking or swimming. Once you learn it, you don’t forget.
The teacher that was with us never said anything besides watching my progress. He was the coolest dude ever. I miss you, Mr Jones.
I got one of those things at a state fair when I was a little kid and set about immediately cutting myself trying to flip it open and look cool. My mom took it from me shortly thereafter. That ended the short saga of WoahWoah and the butterfly knife.
At this point, I can’t think of any reason I would want one. People that can use them well look pretty cool, but as a purposeful knife, they seem pointlessly complicated and prone to user error.
I use one as my daily! I practice with it a lot and have a trainer to practice. Funny enough, I actually just modeled mine today in a photoshoot (am a circus performer)
As a daily they function as any other knife. If you’re experienced with them, you don’t even think about open or closing. There’s a tiny bit of security in knowing that most people are too afraid to hold one. I do also like that they absolutely can’t close on you while holding it.
I have cut myself though. The worst was when I did a toss that landed tip-down on my palm. But small harm doesn’t bother me.
Same reason they banned pinball in Chicago and NY. To distract the people away from what names politicians money.
