I might not be understanding something about the fediverse, but isn’t this like if you couldn’t send or receive email from a friend because you use gmail Google decided to block @icloud domains?
Like, you’re not forced to follow or interact with it, and are free to block it if you can think of a reason to, I just don’t see why such an open platform used to limit users in this way
Fascist-adjacent.
Overwhelmingly large.
E-mail does not work the same way.
I went to fedi to avoid big corporations and what they’ve done with social media. Why would I want their platform having access to my posts? I don’t trust meta or any of the other big tech companies. In fact, the main mastodon instance I use blocks threads entirely and that’s one of the reasons I joined it.
The concept as I understand it is that Threads has the sheer volume of content to completely drown out the existing Fedi content if it fully opens the floodgates. If that occurs and say 90% of content becomes Threads and then they start making Threads only extensions to Activity Pub, servers will have to start patching those in and the Activity Pub project is defacto owned by Meta.
People also have issues with the Meta content moderation and the population on Threads, but as you noted that’s fixable on an individual and community level. The existential threat to the future of the Fediverse is why servers should defederate. Meta can’t and shouldn’t be trusted with any amount of power over this community project.
This is called “Embrace, Extend, Extinguish”. Microsoft coined the term internally for their responses to open standards in the 90’s and 00’s.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
Lemmy World is doing a pretty good job of that themselves. I don’t hate them, but I don’t understand why.
No, they aren’t. They aren’t by any means.
Maybe there are more posts from that instance, but there is no one trying to then extend the protocol with the objective of requesting special features and then killing off the protocol.
They haven’t gone that far yet, but they’re on their way. I didn’t think they were like that in the beginning either, but they certainly were advertising themselves to be the best place to go in the beginning for some unknown reason. They now try and take over every community and/or shut down smaller ones. An admin was curating things, which isn’t a great sign. Granted, it was just an admin, but I’m not welcome there anymore. They act like reddit, so I think of them like reddit. That’s just my take, you’re totally welcome to disagree, and you obviously do. I didn’t see the value in spreading out in the fediverse, now I do.
didn’t see the value in spreading out in the fediverse, now I do.
Welcome to the other instances!
Ty, I really like SJW, they’re pretty great here.
Some more discussion on this old post here, both for and against
Thank you for the link
There’s a lot of reactionary anti-corpo types here. There’s really no good reason for users to want to defederate from a Facebook owned instance. It’s also a pointless stance, as threads is a Twitter/mastodon style site and not really compatible with reddit/lemmy style sites.
There are some technical reasons to avoid federating for those hosting instances. The software forces local copies of everything users subscribe to which is a massive space concern. There’s also a problem with performance of syncing that data for large instances that’s already a problem with .world size instances, where it can take a day+ to process new comments.
There’s really no good reason for users to want to defederate from a Facebook owned instance.
Yeah why would anyone object to a company that manipulated people for the fascist who tried to overthrow the US government, and recently hired a co-author of Project 2025? ‘You just don’t like it!’
That’s a reson to not subscribe or participate, not defederate.
Fascism being something individuals politely turn down. Right? No consequences what-so-ever from letting that shit spread by default.
I can see why people here don’t want 175 millions Threads monthly active users to upvote and downvote content in Lemmy communities
All the arguments were had here: https://sh.itjust.works/post/11011288
edit: and the subsequent vote where we decided to defederate: https://sh.itjust.works/post/11308397
I simply don’t trust Meta. That’s all.
I think the argument is that Meta would hoover up and profit from posts from people who don’t consent to use it. AFAIK, you can’t block an instance from seeing your posts and comments, so the only real option is defederation.
You can’t block anything from seeing your posts and comments though. That is point of a free and public space. Defederation isn’t doing what you think it is
this is exactly it. these people are posting public information, and are then getting butt-hurt when its used a public resource.
im running an mbin instance (shoutout https://moist.catsweat.com !), which does connect to threads. I purposefully avoided using lemmy as its not capable of doing that. I wanted to give people stuck in the FB walled garden a path out where they could still communicate with their friends and family on threads.
my only concern with threads is one of resource management/volume. I cant have their stream physically take down my server, so that would be the only reason for me to block them.
a rather large lemmy contingent are vehemently, emotionally anti-meta. see also the ‘fedipact’
a rather large lemmy contingent are vehemently, emotionally anti-meta.
Meta’s history doesn’t really speak in its favor
Hey! This looks neat. What is Mbin exactly?
Alternative to Lemmy, compatible with it: https://joinmbin.org/
its a lemmy-compatible reddit clone + it has the whole ‘microblog’ section (ie, mastodon/tweets), so users from mbin can subscribe to and be subscribed from the rest of the 'verse
Sure, websites could scrape and whatnot, but having actual API integration is a very different thing.
only until llm scrapers hit the market. they will make the api requirement negligible. like reddit is finding out now… you can block your api all you want but people are just going to scrape your public site.
Sure, but that’s not the issue at all. The issue is that they’d be linking lemmy content from within Threads, as in using Lemmy content to drive engagement for Threads. Whether it’s used in an LLM is another matter entirely. Without direct API integration, Lemmy posts and comments won’t show up in Threads. That’s my take on why people want to defederate.
so youre saying meta may use the information youre publicly posting as if it was public information?
e. solution seems simple. require login to view content… or dont
I’m saying it’s a completely separate concern. Whether Meta scrapes lemmy has nothing to do with whether Meta is federated with lemmy.
Because I remember this https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html
And it feels like deja vu.
You understand perfectly well.
This is not genuine discource. You post in bad faith with a tactic as old as Reddit. Piss off slag.
What? Let me guess, you’re a flat earther too?
These are seasoned ex-redditors here, do you think trying to antagonize them is going to work? Move along.
Well, this was extremely disappointing. Only one person had a helpful reply, pointing to this link explaining the basics, a couple others vaguely gestured about their distaste of Meta, and everyone else demonstrated an even lesser understanding of the fediverse than I had started with. One particular flat-earther just called me a slag and posted a screenshot of themselves downvoting all my comments.
This discussion has happened several times over the last few months, people are probably over it.
The thread that was linked has 119 comments if you want more opinions on the topic.
If you want other threads
- https://lemmy.world/post/1110170 - 1 year ago - 525 comments
- https://lemm.ee/post/851217 - 1 year ago - 404 comments
“Everyone disagrees with me, that is insane because I am clearly smarter than them all. Why won’t all you idiot people agree with me?!”
All of your comments in one reductive nutshell.
You seem to have low self-awareness. Do you happen to be autistic?
When did anyone disagree with me? Using “autistic” as a pejorative is more revealing oof your character than mine. Good luck!
Believe it or not I didn’t mean it as a pejorative and I was literally asking. I continue to perceive the comment-in-question as having low self-awareness but tbh, who cares. But if I’m honest with myself I did intend to be rude when I wrote my comment and I don’t believe anyone benefits when I write in that state of mind. So I apologize for that.
I find nothing wrong with being autistic besides that it entails additional challenges that folks face when dealing with allistic people and vice versa. But we understand it a bit more each day.
Or people checked your comment history and saw that your first ever comment was to vote against defederation, and you haven’t done anything besides drop pseud-posts whenever people expressed their desire not to federate with Threads. That does not look like good faith engagement to me.
Facebook bad.
Yes that’s my whole take.
This is all you need.
For me it’s just “fuck Meta.” Fuck that company for coming here.
I don’t want to interact with anything related to that company. There’s a reason I don’t have accounts on any of their platforms. I don’t like them.
They don’t like meta. Everything else is just justifying that.
