like either a dumbass posting stupid shit, unfair bans, idiotic arguments, etc etc. i feel so incredibly stupid letting it affect me at all, but then also there’s real feelings mixed in there because it’s a real argument i give a shit about to some degree. so it’s this odd double crossing where i know it’s stupid but i process it as being real.
bonus points for not answering ‘go outside drink water read a book’ etc etc
I’ve learned to walk away. I used to bite, hard. But now I might give them the accurate answer then leave their tirade and maybe even block them. I have this lovely wife. Great kids. I’d rather put down phone and see what they’re up to than engage with some guy online who probably doesn’t even whipe their own arse.
Great mindset
Something that really helped me on this front (that’s carried over to the way Lemmy is built, too) is that nested comments get less and less visible. At some point, it really is just you and the other person arguing and no one else is even watching. When I ask myself the question “is this really someone I want a one-on-one conversation with?” the answer is almost always no.
It’s really limited my back-and-forth to one, maybe two responses from me per exchange (bad or good). It clearly defines an endpoint to the conversation, and if there’s something I really feel like I have to say, it’s gotta be in that first or second reply. That habit has helped me so much.
I’ll have you know I do wipe my own arse
An interesting thing about Lemmy is that if you delete your comment, it also nukes every comment underneath it. So if you say something, and then people are giving you a hard time about it, and then you go out for a walk and are still annoyed about it, you can self-destruct and take them with you (this isn’t based on a true story of course, but if it was, I’d say it’s terrible in that it discourages engagement and deletes someone else’s actually-correct info, but it’s a good way to get over it all)
except you can reply to the so called nuked comment and it re appears
Sorry for the Reddit link but lemmy.world’s not letting upload images and I’m on mobile so don’t want to transcribe this, but just imagine the person you’re arguing with is like this:
Transcription of the image in @BitSound’s comment:
A Reddit comment by user “YARGLE_IS_MY_DAD”:
"I remember I got into an argument on reddit awhile ago with a person over Italian food. It got to the point they were following me into other subs to harass me.
I clicked on their profile to block them and their most recent post was them drinking their own piss on r/piss. At that moment I realized I had spent so much pointless time arguing about the taste of food with someone who drinks their own piss as a hobby. This site is a shit hole."
Thank you 🙇
This is actually also prevalent here on lemmy, gosh, the gate keepers here are insane, it borders mental illness.
Sometimes I just block without engaging.
I got old
Nowadays I leave. I’ll argue a little but there’s a point where you know neither of you are going to change your mind and you’re both just angry.
Taking a walk doesn’t help as I just stew, so I need to actually go do something to distract myself.
I don’t really engage with anything I don’t see as a thoughtful reply made in good faith. Sometimes. But I try not to.
Similarly, have they offered something worthy of my time and consideration?
Yes, consider engaging.
No? Next.
I like to lead such people on in bad faith. watching them go from thinking they are the ones in control of the conversation to realising they are being played is actually quite fun. Bonus points for the rabid PMs they might start sending towards the end. Just knowing you can rile someone up so much when they expected to control the narrative is great
By not getting upset about something online. Here’s a person, you have not seen, behind a computer screen, most likely on another continent which you have no idea where. Who gives a fuck what they think or say, let them go.
I think that, in the moment, online arguments can feel extremely real and heated. But, then you go out and do other things, and it becomes less and less important over time.
Of course, then you come back and find a notification from one of those morons you’ve been arguing with, and then you’re right back in it. So I guess just practice? Like, just keep reminding yourself that it doesn’t actually matter, even if it feels like it does.
Also, shrooms help. I remember I got into a heated snit with some idiot online an hour or so before eating a bunch of caps. Then, when I was trying to explain what the argument was about to one of my friends, I couldn’t finish because hearing myself explain it became apparent just how ridiculous the entire thing was. I think psychedelics just give you perspective that you’re lacking in your normal day-to-day life.
Write a reply, and then, after about 5 sentences I hit cancel.
"bonus points for not answering ‘go outside drink water read a book’ etc etc’
Erm, well, the very first thing I suggest is going outside for a bit. A walk can do wonders.
But this is one part of a general strategy, really - when you are upset by something online, make a little space between yourself and the conversation, reflect on why it upsets you, and decide if it’s worth continuing to engage.
If it is, try to be as even-handed in your responses as possible. I find deliberately trying to tone down my own rhetoric makes me feel better - if I’m using super emotional language, all I’m doing is ratcheting up my own pissed-off-o-meter. I have a better experience trying to discuss something in good faith with a fellow human, even if they’re wrong or just being an asshole for the sake of it. Try to make a space for the other human to have a real discussion. Either it will become a good conversation, and might expose you or the other person to viewpoints you haven’t considered, or it will become clear that it’s not worth your time to continue.
If it’s not worth your time (either upon initial reflection or upon fresh evidence), just stop. Nothing good will come of continuing to go at it. Look at or do stuff that carries value for yourself instead.
Step away from it and avoid engaging. Let it fade into memory. Distract yourself with something you enjoy or find fun/entertaining. Don’t give them your attention or energy, and don’t go looking for more stuff that will make you mad. It’s hard but it does work if you stick with it and don’t let yourself get stuck thinking about it over and over. If absolutely necessary, vent about it to a friend, get the salt out of your system without inviting it into your life directly. Only engage with something that you think deserves your time and energy. Just because it’s a topic you give a shit about, that doesn’t mean that someone being a dickhead on the internet deserves any emotional investment or emotional labour from you. Not letting yourself engage with something that upsets you can feel frustrating at first, but after a while it will begin to feel very freeing. You will start to feel less obligated to devote too much mental real-estate to things that upset you and shitty people who don’t deserve the time of day from you. You will then feel less of that immediate urge to dive in and get involved in an argument, which will likely only upset you. Instead it gets easier to move on and let it fade to white noise in the backdrop of your thoughts, until it’s gone completely.
That was my experience at least when I started having this issue and decided to just stop getting into it with stupid online strangers.
I don’t think it’s stupid to have a reaction to stuff that happens online, but the trick is to not get baited into investing even more into whatever it is if there is no likely resolution. It’s kind of vibes based, but sometimes you get someone who you can just tell is a bit unhinged and will never stop posting at you no matter how much they are embarrassing themselves. So I distance myself from whatever it is. Maybe just turn of notifications, other times I need to unbookmark the site to stay away or sometimes I just delete my account and move on entirely.
I’ll also often preemptively disable notifications if I think a take is going to attract weirdos.
bonus points for not answering ‘go outside drink water read a book’ etc etc
I mean I hate to say it but these are still honest, good answers even if you’ve heard them before. Sometimes you just have to touch some grass.
How do I handle it? Poorly.
How should I handle it? Well, a few things:
If I haven’t engaged yet, I should try to keep in mind whether it’s worth my time to engage, whether I’m really qualified to represent the opposing viewpoint, etc. Often, I’m just not the right person or it’s not the right time.
If I feel like I need to change this person’s opinion in order to be okay, it’s less about them and more about me. I probably feel like there’s some part of my humanity that isn’t being recognized here. The thing is: Responding to them by being hostile to their perspective is gonna make them feel exactly the same way, and neither of us are gonna get what we want.
It’s much better to ask: “I’m curious why you see it that way. I see it differently, and here’s why” focusing way more on what I’m subjectively bringing to table rather than what makes it an objectively better argument. Curiosity also invites them into a collaborative exercise instead of a zero-sum duel. It’s crazy that we view online debates as like… if I learned something in the process, I’m the loser! What a weird way to look at it! If I phrase it in a way where we can both feel good about changing our minds just a little bit, we’ll both feel way better.
It’s also helpful to recognize the difference between positions and interests/motivations. Two people might both want an orange, but there’s only one orange. Alice’s position is “I want that orange”. But their interest might be that they want to make orange juice with it. And Bob’s interest might be that he wants to zest the peel to make an orange cake. They could easily both be happy here, but not realize it because they’re stuck fighting on what to do instead of why they want to do that. Even if I don’t get the discussion to that point, it can be helpful to assume that the other party has reasons for their position that are different from the reasons for mine, and they might both be valid.
And along those lines… just because I’m right doesn’t mean the other person is wrong. Sometimes more than one thing can be true. The world is messy, the truth resists simplicity, and plenty of things – and people – are contradictory while still being valuable.
Finally: I should try to recognize when someone is simply acting in bad faith and cut my losses way before getting emotionally invested. Sometimes online content is literally a trap, and I don’t have to keep walking towards it after already realizing it’s a trap just because I’m curious what kind of trap it is. Innuendo Studios’ series on “The Alt-Right Playbook” is a great guide to recognizing this behavior: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJA_jUddXvY7v0VkYRbANnTnzkA_HMFtQ
Don’t feed the trolls.
I struggle with this too sometimes, from a couple angles. Primarily, I’m worried about how people perceive me. I’ve been practicing not giving a shit what other people think of me for about a decade now, and I’m pretty good, but it doesn’t always work. I have to remind myself that it just doesn’t matter if a stranger disagrees with me, or thinks I’m a fuckwad/idiot/etc, just like my opinion of them doesn’t change their life. We don’t know each other. Their negative opinion of me has no real impact on my life, and holding onto that helps me move past caring about their opinion.
Secondarily, I stress about misinformation/toxic ideas being spread. I pipe up in a lot of discussions about feminism and the patriarchy because I want to clarify misconceptions that a lot of people hold about these issues. But, as far as I know, I’ve never changed someone’s mind, and the effort just brings me down. I have to remind myself it’s not my responsibility to teach someone why they might be wrong. The odds that I would actually succeed are very low, unless the person is genuine and asking questions in good faith.
