On stuff outside of lemmygrad, we are receiving a lot of hate, especially by those who just moved from Reddit. Guess they lost their hidden privilege at Reddit as their rhetoric used to be almost universal over there, while genzedong and our other subs get censored and banned. And now, on lemmy, their stuff isn’t universal, as we are more prevalent here. Seems like they really want that hidden privilege back
The really good news is that all the communities on lemmy.ml have been created long before radlibs showed up, and are administered by sane people.
liberals flooding OUR website and then saying to kick us out is hilarious to me
dear comrades living and dead, please help give me the self control not to try arguing with all the “Lemmy is anti human rights” takes polluting the fediverse rn 🙏
I deeply care about human rights
Must be one of the most nebulous and abstract things you can stand for. What rights? The right to die on the street? The right to monopoly?
The right to be airstriked by NATO peacekeepers, duh
The right to be forced to work to earn back the right to exist
I wonder if it’s struck them yet that, as their neoliberal platform fails, other platforms built on fundamentally better ideas and infrastructure are rising up. I wonder if this challenges their preconceived notions at all? Nah, it’s just a bunch of tankies.
I saw someone comment, in an almost gleeful manner “I didn’t even know of the word Tankie until today!” like a kid who just learned about the word “Fuck”. 🙄
It is definitely inducing cognitive dissonance. The developers are simply are communists trying to collectivize social media, and that will live in their heads rent free as long as they stick around.
That post on !196@lemmy.blahaj.zone got me fked up because one of the comments there was like “authoritarian communism” is an oxymoron actually 🤓 and another was like “Marxism is not materialism” and it had double digit upvotes.
Like jesus WHAT THE FUXK are you on about. Read Marx and Engels. Read Lenin.
It’s like arguing with toddlers.
Read Marx and Engels. Read Lenin.
Marx is a tankie, Engels is a tankie, Lenin is a tankie.
You lost them at asking them to read. They do not read.
This is false. They can definitely read… Twitter and reddit and anything else pumped out by the feds that comes in short quips with no real background information or data backing it up.
Stalin dunks on these types in Anarchism or Socialism it’s funny af, some say Marxism bad bc it’s materialism, some say it’s bad because it’s not materialism, some say it’s bad because they don’t understand the what type of materialism it is, and don’t even get him started on what Nobati and Sh. G. thinks of Dialectics😪
Idk man, I got a temporary ban for saying that ACAB means all cops and some dipshit told me to read Lenin’s State and Revolution lmao. Seems to me like a lot of people on here are just having dick measuring contests about how far left they are.
Just you wait until US newscorps start advocating to ban the entirety of lemmy and its source code from the USA.
If Imperial America suffers a crisis even severer than the one in the summer of 2020, that would become a serious possibility.
obviously the Chinese are making us all think for ourselves and talk amongst ourselves… there could be no other answer
Lemmy.ml banned my account there lol. Why are they so concerned with a little bullying of liberals?
Lemmy is tone policed… apparently except when someone is calling us “red fash”, that’s not bannable.
You gotta get the normies on the network for the network effect to take off!
i hate to say it, but i don’t want the network effect taking off. in fact, that’s a sign it’s time to leave. is it possible to ever just have a smallish community where real discussion and ideas can flourish without the rest of the US dragging everything down to the lowest common denominator?
You can always just only stay here, the admins are great about banning the wandering reddit libs pretty quickly
Isn’t that what the entire federation point is? We can keep this community and keep it insular.
To expect that lemmy as a whole can remotely be the same as lemmygrad is delusional and indicative of being way too online. If anything having lemmy as a whole being more moderate and broader based is a propagandistic tool (not that it even matters that much, online is fake, join a party).
Gramscian hegemonic analysis with regards to the superstructural “war” is silly as fuck and a huge waste of time. We will never have hegemony offline or online under capitalism, the smart response is to adapt, propagate our ideas where it makes sense, and act strategically.
Honestly for me online is mostly a venting space, I see literally zero value over debating libs in that area. Pushing a counter narrative has some use yes, but even then that impact is minimal, and conclusive to at best the worst recruits you can possibly imagine.
edit: it’s also a dogshit habit when it comes to mass work where you have to interact with countless ideologically backwards elements in the organized working class. You will never find purity. Going full guns blazing on libs is a time and place and contextual situation and you need to learn how to not flip the fuck out over backwards and even reactionary ideas in those settings, because doing that will lead you to never be able to stamp them out amongst the masses.
I guess you have to ask yourself, are we spreading ideas and looking to chip away at the predominant hegemony, or do we want to self isolate?
One of the nice things about lemmy.ml is that it starts from a far left perspective and as a result of reddits own unmaking, places normies in a position of no longer being the predominant opinion in the room.
This has two outcomes from what I can guess:
- Normies show up in droves, and their perspectives shift as a result of having to defend their point of view for once.
- Normies show up, but leave because they can’t handle not being able to call forth the shibaliths they’re so accustom to, and having their points of view challenged on equal grounds.
Or normies show up and take over?
You think they’re going to take over lemmygrad, or hexbear? The thing about federation is that you can avoid the outcome you’re talking about by only federating with communities that share our values.
really makes you wonder about the proclivities of the devs tbh
Everyone click on the All button and start participating in federation.
Worst thing that can happen is the liberals complain.
But if you’re going to be participating on lemmy.ml please don’t make the admins’ job harder, respect the instance rules. They’re already working overtime to handle the influx of new users across the software.
If you’re going to throw around “liberals” as some sort of derogatory “us vs them” term then you should probably think twice before clicking all.
There are two sides to any coin. Check yourself before you shit on other people, to make sure you’re not just proving yourself to be at least as bad as them.
liberals is a derogatory term lol
You have the same pfp as @ParentiBot@lemmygrad.ml
The quote
In the United States, for over a hundred years, the ruling interests tirelessly propagated anticommunism among the populace, until it became more like a religious orthodoxy than a political analysis. During the Cold War, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime’s atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn’t go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them. If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum.
– Michael Parenti, Blackshirts And Reds
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Yes, thank you, I’ve been posting on lemmy.ml for 4 years now.
I don’t think I’m a liberal. If you have any kind of empathy at all for a fellow human and look outside (in the US, at least), I really don’t see how you can come to a conclusion that isn’t “Holy shit capitalism causes so much harm and suffering we need to find to do something else.”.
I don’t know what flavor of leftist I am. I looked at anarchism for a bit and I ultimately found it really idealistic. No one seems to agree on what a “just hierarchy” is, and anarchists as a whole seems to argue for the complete annihilation of any hierarchy. I really wonder how they’re going to run a hospital in an anarchist fashion.
But at the same time, I don’t want to create something worse. I don’t want to help build an authoritarian regime that paves over people’s individuality and rights. I’ve seen the outcomes of that and I just can’t agree with that.
I probably look dumb saying this but my preferred ideal society is pretty much Star Trek.
Hey, just want to say that I think you’re on the right track! A lot of us felt this way before (at least I know I did for the most part), I would highly reccomend reading marxist theory, imo it really does answer a lot of these misgivings. If you don’t want to read, there are a lot of audiobooks out there, or even just starting with beginner socialist videos is ok
I’ve read the communist manifesto in high school. Since those years, I’ve struggled with reading any kind of long-form text. It’s something I’m trying to work on as it causes a lot of strife in day-to-day life.
I will gladly take audiobook recommendations.
I didnt get a notification for this for some reason, damn lemmy bugs… anyways I’m not super into audio books, but I like socialism for all’s voice, here’s a playlist starting with “On Authority” by Engels and going through a lot of other ones on socialism vs anarchism.
If you want something more modern, there’s also this audiobook of Black Shirts and Reds by Michael Parenti, which is less theory and more a history book in a way. I would probably recommend at least listening to On Authority first, it’s only 9 minutes compared to like 6 hours for Black Shirts and Reds
If you like his voice, there’s a ton of playlists labeled by author or topic on his channel
Dessalines also has a lot, like non-degetic said
I don’t know much about audiobooks, but I recommend reading/listening to Principles of Commumism. It’s, in my opinion, a better introductory text than the manifesto and also quite short. It’s essentially a communism FAQ written by Engels.
Unfortunately the more invested and “hardcore” Redditors still tend to be libertarians, although a lot of run-of-the-mill liberals are now included in that group.
So what happens when you get tons of them leaving a platform en masse? They’ll bring their reactionary toxicity with them, claiming “no hatred” or “bigotry-free”, while enabling pro-rulling class rhetoric and blanket-banning/defederating with communists. At least this split on Mastodon isn’t as heavy as it was already filled with a lot of “leftists”, and as there aren’t really any explicitly ML instances available, a lot of communists are intermingled in left-leaning spaces.
Here though? They can push all their ire onto lemmygrad.ml, alienating a pretty big chunk users if they defederate, even worse if they eventually do so with lemmy.ml given the admin crossover.
they eventually do so with lemmy.ml given the admin crossover.
There’s an admin crossover?
Yes, both are run by the devs who are of course communists. These were the two original lemmy instances: lemmy.ml was the “standard” flagship to show what lemmy was capable of, while lemmygrad was the communist space
Which of our admins are on the dev team?
Man… I haven’t been on reddit in quite a while but I don’t remember it being such a shitlibfest. It’s really bad and it pretty well overran lemmy.ml immediately.
It puts me in an odd spot because I care amd believe in Lemmy as a project and I want it to grow, but on the other hand it was kinda nice to not be called a fascist… because im a communist… because that somehow makes me the antithesis of communism
I think there will be an adjustment period, where the Reddit habits will continue to be exhibited. Most redditors have been heavily propagandized for years. Those that stick around and don’t end up in defederated instances will eventually grow more and more deprogrammed.
There’s currently a big push on reddit to keep the protesting communities away from a lemmy migration (downvotes, censored comments, highly upvtoed suggestions towards irrelevant alternatives that are owned by corporations and not part of the Fediverse). I suspect that the massive Western psyops mechanism is afraid to lose one of their most effective echo-chambers.
The only concern I have is that lemmy.ml is already leaning towards tone policing, which makes it somewhat susceptible to be taken over by the shitlibs and fascists.
How are they leaning towards tone policing?
I think we need to some easier ground for people to land and figure out an alternative to propaganda exists. That’s the role of main lemmy.ml, in my opinion, being a landing pad. I think it would be sensible to remind people that the place for talk between tankies is here, not there. And arguably, some general communities here should be more accessible to the “general” public than others.
People that give themselves the work to come check us out need to be happy to see sensible people, and sensible discussions, even though we know and are angry at seeing the same pattern and problem everywhere. There’s a path, a funnel to understanding that. And everyone is in their own personal journey. Our role is to feed them and give them directions.
We didn’t get here because someone though us. We got here because someone fed our curiosity. And there’s different food for different stages of curiosity.
Lemmy.ml mods/admins tend to remove heated discussions. That by itself is not necessarily bad, but it has been taken advantage of by various alt-right characters who were seeking to troll or propagandize under the guise of “asking questions in a civil manner”, then reported anyone who responded to them in an even slightly offensive manner. That will certainly be happening again with the massive migration from reddit.
As for the rest of it. I completely agree, and that was my original point: Be patient and engage the new arrivals. At the very least, it’ll help them grow out of the behaviours reddit has taught them.
Reddit tends to ban commies. It’s like a mini red scare: with the left removed, the right thrives.
