having a moment here in gnome
to everyone pointing out that this is for touchpads;
a: it’s awful on that too
b: note the mouse in the example given
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This is an affront to nature
Looking at you Apple who has this option on by default.
This is actually pretty nice for touchpad. It’s atrocious for scrollwheel though.
And the magic mouse famously doesn’t have a scroll wheel.
I use unnatural for both. It feels like inverted mode for FPS for me. I blame GoldenEye
It’s so frustrating on iPadOS because there’s one setting that controls touchscreen scrolling and mouse wheel scrolling. So I have to decide if I want my fingers to feel dumb or the mouse or occasionally use to feel dumb. iPadOS is so fucking bad and left to languish.
I don’t use i-Infrastructure, but apparently there’s an app for that. BetterTouchTool separates the two functions.
That’s the first thing I fix when I set up a new Mac. Second thing is install BetterTouchTool. It lets you separate mouse and trackpad options, so the scroll wheel can be right and the trackpad backwards.
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Every few months I find a new BTT option to use on all my machines. Glad I purchased a lifetime license.
Then again maybe I should have bought a subscription to keep him incentivized…
Nice me too. BTT and unclutter are my 2 critical Mac apps.
I hate how Apple unifies the mouse scroll and trackpad scroll interpretation, so I really love this project: https://github.com/ther0n/UnnaturalScrollWheels
IIRC it’s default in Windows and GNOME now too. It’s a very strange default.
Ok that’s even worse. I get that its to make it the same as when you push the screen up on your phone blah blah blah
But they can all die and burn in hell
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I mean, I have no problem with anyone using it the way they prefer but I also hate it and it makes me irrationally angry for no reason.
it actually wasn’t in this gnome install from last night, i just happened to run across the setting while looking for something else and made the meme. but i do seem to recall having to fix this before in years past.
It’s the default for trackpads, which makes sense IMO
iirc windows uses classic direction and doesn’t have an option to change it to “natural”, meaning if you happened to get used to “natural” you have to do some janky registry thing to flip it
nope
We use Apple Computers at work and when I go to someone’s computer and realize that “natural scrolling” is on I can’t help but judge them internally. Monsters.
It took me awhile to figure that out.
I’d rather have an app with unnecessary options that nobody will ever use than one where some UX expert somewhere has decided the exact way I have to interact with the program.
You have been blacklisted from Apple’s job board.
It is not about the wording, rather the having the option? No one would call that direction natural.
Actually “natural” gets a pass from me. It doesn’t feel right just because we got used to the opposite.
Imagine a paper scroll on rolls. If you slide the top of the roll upwards - the paper goes up, and you can see more bottom content. The exact opposite happens when you scroll the mouse wheel with default config.
I’ll preface this by agreeing that it’s just a matter of preference but, to me, natural scrolling on trackpads makes sense because the the trackpad “feels” like the virtual piece of paper you’re moving around. However, the scroll wheel “feels” like some sort of roller separating my finger from the page, kind of like the ones printers use to feed paper. In that case, traditional scrolling is closer to the real-life behavior.
I agree with this here. Like the wheel moves the sheet.
this is why apple mouses got rid of mouse wheels. now you move the sheet directly and it makes sense again
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cries of apple fanbois on the distance
You will snooze for 9 minutes and you will like it.
There was a point in time where first person video games couldn’t make their minds up and so games came with the option to have the y-axis inverted. Moving the mouse up would make the PC look down and vice versa.
It’s because of joysticks and typical flight controls. Pushing forward goes down and pulling backwards is “pulling up”.
Joysticks rules for a long time before the mouse came out. Home computers came standard with joystick ports.
Keyboard controls followed this convention and when mouse controls came into FPS games this was the first instinct… Moving the mouse “forward” looks down.
Still a setting in any game worth caring about. I still prefer inverted in some cases.
Something like a mounted turret makes more sense inverted if you think of the mouse as an analog of your hand. Moving the handles down would move the tip of the barrel up. This analogy could easily extend to a two handed rifle or even a hand gun if your mental reference is the back of the gun, the handle
i used that for flight control, but war thunder’s mouse aim spoiled me.
I have to switch the y axis in every 3rd person game now because of super Mario sunshine.
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So therefore you invert the x axis for the same reasons too, right?
It’s the same with left versus right, which nobody has yet talked about. It you angled my head right, my vision would be turning towards the left. Both of these need to be inverted.
The way my brain rationalizes it (inverted y, normal x) is that the closest analog to my hand on a mouse is my hand on top of my character’s head.
To make that head look up I pull my hand back, which is the same exact motion as pulling the mouse back. So it feels natural.
To make the head look left, I would rotate my hand counterclockwise. Rotating a mouse doesn’t do anything, so I have to translate that to lateral motion, and left to look left feels more natural.
Of course the real explanation is that the first mouselook games I played defaulted to inverted y and normal x, so that’s what I got used to. And even before mouselook became a thing, I was playing flight sims, which default to inverted y. Still, it’s fun to try to rationalize something that ultimately boils down muscle memory.
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If I have a camera on a tripod and I angle down…the view goes up. If I angle up, the view goes down.
I much prefer a simpler analogy: If I look up, I look up. If I look down, I look down.
It’s not any simpler, you’re just changing the frame of reference relative to the fulcrum point. His example is just as valid. If you’re controlling from behind the fulcrum inverted is perfectly intuitive.
If you imagine the mouse strapped to the back of your head, then moving it up would tilt your head down, but it would also tilt you head left when you moved it right. So if you want to use realism (in this mouse behind the head scenario) as an argument for inversion then you would need left and right inverted too.
However, if you strap the mouse to your face, now if you move the mouse up, your head tilts up aswell. If you move it right, you look right. And given in 1st person games the camera is at the front of the head, this is why non-inverted is preferred.
The only argument for either is personal preference and more people prefer the latter, non-inverted, which is why it is not the default.
I like to imagine that if there was a small 2D picture somewhere inside the 3D game, I could use the crosshair as a mouse cursor on that picture.
just imagine them pulling your hair from the front then
If they grab the back of your head, sure, but if they grabbed your nose and angled it up your vision would go up. The question, then, is where is your perception of the mouse
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Spoken like a gentleman who drinks his orange juice warm while eating his daily tune of toothpaste.
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Exactly my point
they are GASLIGHTING us into thinking reverse way is NORMAL!
I blame macs for this. The mouse should move the viewport, not the content, and touchpads/touchscreens are not mice. Having mice default to moving the viewport and touchscreens/-pads default to moving the content is perfectly natural.
Gotta be honest as the resident Mac fanboy, it blew my mind that they don’t separate this. Natural scroll on trackpads makes sense. Traditional scrolling on mice makes sense. Apparently, if you use a combo mouse/trackpad (like in my case, a laptop with a mouse on the side to prevent RSI) you can only pick one or the other without a third party app.
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i only use that for touchpad
Yes, that would make sense, but why does the UI show a mouse with a scroll wheel then.
I love the natural direction for my track pad and phone, but I’ll die before I use it on my mouse. I have to use a 3rd party app to make my mouse behave the way I want and still use a track pad
The default behavior of mouse wheel (what shown in OP graphics) is the same as on the phone. What are you talking about?
It’s not. When you move wheel up, content moves up. When you move finger up, content moves down.
On your phone when you move finger up, the content moves down???
When you slide your finger up your screen, the content scrolls down. That’s why you swipe up when you browse Lemmy or Reddit or whatever. Whereas on a computer, sliding the mouse wheel up causes the page to scroll up.
I was so confused until I read this, because I was like “but… The scroll wheel is normally used to scroll the page.” I didn’t realize this made it backwards tho. Ew.
Stop trying to make all PCs phones, its not going to happen. STOP.
My phone is a PC…
But is your PC a phone?
It’s supposed to mimic how you scroll on your phone. Fine for TouchPads (depending on when you learned to use it(i.e., if you learned to use a touch pad after learning to use a smart phone then it would make, slightly, more sense)), abhorrent for mice.
if you look at the image it clearly shows a mouse moving content.
You only use that on a touchpad
I preferred the term “Australian scrolling”
Fuck off, mate
(just joking :))
Ah yeah nah no wukkas, yussa good cunt :)
Most of the times, the linux memes community sparks better debates and discussion than the linux one, where everything is circlejerk and “windows bad”
the linuxgaming communities are also generally p decent
I have natural scrolling on for both mouse and touchpad, I like it much better. It’s a pain in Windows though, have to edit register to change wheel direction.
I still haven’t figured out how to enable it on Samsung Dex 🙄
What am I missing? What else would the mouse wheel do?
“Scrolling moves the content” means the content moves opposite of the direction you scroll a la smartphones and tablets, i.e. scrolling up will make content move down.
Thank you, I was so confused. Now when I look at it, I get it. I was like, but both arrows are pointing up, when I scroll forward with the wheel, the viewport also scrolls up.
it’s mostly for touchpads, I find it better as it mimics the behaviour on phones touchscreen but sometimes I disable it
I hope nobody uses it on a mouse
Apple enters the chat
