CHaNGE my miNd

  • Aa!@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    44
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    I agree that Crowder shouldn’t be a meme.

    I also think that his meme “Change my mind” shouldn’t live on through Calvin. We can get the point across without keeping any of the Crowder-created bits.

  • Lvxferre@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    30
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    1 year ago

    “Steven Crowder Does Not Deserve a Meme Format” deserves a meme format!

  • Grumpy@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    29
    arrow-down
    21
    ·
    1 year ago

    Sure, I’ll play this game.

    The premise of the convincing is loaded. No one deserves shit. Steven Crowder made the format famous and therefore he is attributed to it.

    Whether or not the person is a piece of shit is irrelevant and ad hominem. If Hitler said 1 + 1 = 2, Hitler is right. You don’t get to deny that just because you hate the person. Shitty people can make correct statements and they can achieve things. Doesn’t matter which name we apply to it. We must be able to argue on the merits of the statement or format without sorting to personal feelings on the person, lest you become the one who is intolerant.

    • SnowdenHeroOfOurTime@unilem.org
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      18
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Not sure what any of this has to do with the fact that some people would prefer not to see this shithead’s face. He’s probably wrong about most things but that’s not really what this meme is about. This meme is about whether we want to see his face constantly or not. Many would prefer not to see it.

      What this meme is not about? Saying Hitler is wrong because he’s Hitler…

      • Grumpy@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        1 year ago

        This meme is about whether we want to see his face constantly or not. Many would prefer not to see it.

        That’s not the premise I drew from what this post is about. It’s not a question of what we prefer to see. It’s a question of if he deserves the meme format. But I guess we can simply disagree on that point.

        Even if it’s a question of preference, I would still argue the same. We can’t just live our lives purely through our preferences. We have to face reality of how things are. And Crowder is the face of the meme, whether we like it or not. He is the one attributed to this meme, and will continue to be regardless of preference.

    • slice1@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      Main problem is: Steven Crowder did not make the meme. People made a meme out of him. There was no “format” - he wanted to be edgy and debate. Then, he became a meme. Nothing to take from, nor attribute to him.

      However, I much prefer Calvin and never want to see anything related to Steven Crowder. And what was that about Hitler? …that…just…wow …

    • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      1 year ago

      We must be able to argue on the merits of the statement or format without sorting to personal feelings on the person, lest you become the one who is intolerant.

      Why not have personal feelings about someone that sucks? We’re not in a court of law deciding on whether someone should go to prison FFS. We’re on a silly website deciding whether a dumb meme is entertaining or not. If a meme is associated with a shit person which results in bad feelings, those feelings negatively impact the entertainment value of the meme.

      Hitler made paintings. Not wanting to hang a painting made by Hitler it your house doesn’t mean someone thinks all paintings suck. It just means they think Hitler sucks and would prefer not to be reminded of the shit Hitler did every time they walk into the living room. You’re saying that people should somehow forget that Hitler made those paintings and enjoy them for the paintings themselves and forget about the person that made them. But that’s just not how brains work, dude. People do think of the person who made the art when forming opinions about something that’s so very subjective.

    • AaronMaria@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      What correct statement are you even talking about how is that hypothetical relevant at all? Is a format a fact now?

      • Grumpy@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        1 year ago

        The correct statement is that he popularized this format of “change my mind.” Therefore, the attribution goes to him.

    • R0cket_M00se@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      7
      ·
      1 year ago

      Thank fuck there’s someone on this website that still has brains.

      The way most people around here operate Good = smart and bad = dumb.

      • slice1@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        The difference is Satan is god and I am Satan. You can also be Satan it is not a parody… or it can be if you want it to be. 666

  • Obinice@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    Does it help that I don’t know who Steve Crowder is? I suspect he’s done something bad if people don’t like him, but seeing as I don’t even know the guy, he can’t be that globally famous. So…I couldn’t care less about the guy 🤷‍♀️

  • peanutdust@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    7
    arrow-down
    12
    ·
    1 year ago

    Oh is that his name, steven crowder, are we trying to cancel steven crowder? whats did steven crowder do? steven crowder?

    • nora@slrpnk.net
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      He’s a far right bigoted POS, just watch one of his videos to see what I mean. You don’t even need to look hard to find one.

    • naught@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      28
      arrow-down
      8
      ·
      1 year ago

      Why is it always a strawman with you people. Crowder is on video verbally abusing and degrading his wife, among the constant garbage hate, propaganda and misinformation he spews. He is a piece of shit and I could do without seeing his face. Even if you agree with his politics, he’s a sniveling smug asshole and has been a provocateur for years. I’ll take calvin any day

      • BeefDaddySupreme@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        12
        arrow-down
        23
        ·
        1 year ago

        Do you not know what strawman means? There’s plenty of people in memes I don’t like, e.g. Zuckerberg, Alex Jones, etc. But I don’t demand they no longer be a meme because I don’t agree with them. Your life must be so taxing if you care so much about a silly meme format.

        • naught@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          9
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          It is a strawman because you are clearly underselling the problem with Crowder and misrepresenting the point. It’s not just “I don’t like him”. It seems you care a lot more about this meme format than you let on.

          • Grumpy@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            1 year ago

            That’s not a strawman. He’s on topic.

            Underselling is not an attribute of strawman. And I’m not sure what he misrepresented.

            If anything, your argument is an ad hominem. Why is verbally abusing and degrading his wife, an insult towards his character, relevant to what he said? He is a piece of shit. So? If you’re saying we should use Calvin because Crowder is piece of shit, you’re just proving @BeefDaddySupreme@lemmy.world 's point.

            P.S. I’m sure I’m gonna get mega downvoted. Arguing with logic is apparently not a thing on the internet.

            • naught@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              He is purposefully misrepresenting the argument being made and dismissing it. He is trivializing the actual point which is that Crowder is problematic beyond “I don’t like him”. He is dismissing a facile version of the actual problem, which is indeed a strawman. The subject is Crowder’s bad behavior (to put it mildly), which is manifested in his actions toward others as well as his other unsavory views.

              “Piece of shit” is surely ad hominem – if I was addressing Crowder’s arguments and responding to him. But I am not. So, no, in this context, it is really not ad hominem.

              My one and only point is that Crowder is a PoS (or shall we say “problematic” if that is more your speed) for many reasons, and I like the Calvin version better.

              • Grumpy@sh.itjust.works
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                4
                ·
                1 year ago

                Dismissing claims based on a counter logic is how a proper arguments are formed. Once again, that is not a strawman. Strawman is a fallacy where they attack a different claim. He is not attacking a different claim in any way. Underselling and dismissing is not a strawman.

                Misrepresenting it is, but if anything, you keep proving him right. You’re putting your feelings of Crowder, as a person, as the reasoning. In other words, someone you don’t like is a meme format. There is no misrepresentation here.

                My only point here is that you have your fallacies wrong.

                • naught@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  I appreciate the pedantry on this. Where is the logic? I’ll grant the meme didn’t make a specific claim, but I definitely did. If my claim is that Crowder has serious ethical violations and another dismisses my argument saying “You just don’t like him,” have they addressed my point? IMO they have taken an easier path by conflating my “feelings” with the more serious, actual point.

                  Take the example from Wiki:

                  Alice: Taking a shower is beneficial.
                  Bob: But hot water may damage your skin.
                  Bob attacked a non-existing argument: “Taking a hot shower is beneficial.”

                  Note that the claim addressed is indeed related but is nonetheless a strawman.

                  While it is true I don’t personally like Crowder, that is not my point. I am saying that Crowder has said and done things that broach beyond a simple distaste. Perhaps that is debatable or one can disagree, but that isn’t what the other commenter is doing. They have painted my argument as purely emotional and trivial while not addressing the actual point.

                  Anyway, if that doesn’t convince you then I don’t think we’ll agree on this, which is fair enough.

                  Cheers

          • papalonian@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            Have you ever searched for days, weeks even for hyper-niche content, only to find the only available torrent has 3 seeders and 17 leechers? No level of violence could reach extremism.

          • Caketaco@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            Yeah I wouldn’t mind beheading a congressperson that passes networking laws which hinder piracy

            I mean, I would do the same in regards to a lot of laws. We really gotta pull a France, people.