The 1% how much taxes they pay
You’re too generous for not making it a yes/no question
You can tell the poster is American because they blame the government involved for all of these except the US, where they blamed the CIA.
You’re right, as an American I knew the specific government agency that overthrew foreign governments. But I don’t mean to imply that the U.S. government is blameless.
I mean the CIA is the us government
No you see it was just a few bad apples.
The CIA is part of the US government.
Don’t ask OP about the use of prepositions
Numerous military buses, trucks, armored vehicles, and tanks being burned by the “peaceful” protesters. Sometimes the soldiers were allowed to escape, and sometimes they were brutally killed by the protesters. Numerous protesters were armed with Molotov cocktails and even guns.
The official report of the Chinese government from 1989 (translated here) shows that more than 1000 military and police vehicles were burned by rioters. And 200+ soldiers and policemen were murdered. Just imagine how much restraint the military and the police had shown.
Wait, how could the protesters kill so many soldiers? Because, until the very end, Chinese soldiers were unarmed. Most of the times, they didn’t even have helmets or batons.
What exactly happened in Beijing in 1989 that lead to this bloody affair?
The answer lies with two key figures: General Secretary Hu Yaobang, and Ambassador James Lilley.
Hu Yaobang was a member of the communist party of China and was one of the three major rightist-reformers that set China on the path its on today, the other two being Zhao Ziyang, and Deng Xiaoping respectively. Hu Yaobang as a reformer was also a spokesman for the intelligentsia and by the end of his life was well-beloved by the youth of China (we’re talking below 30 here, folks) therefore when he passed away the youth of China organized public grieving events with the largest occurring in Beijing. This is to say if Hu didn’t die from old age that year, none of this would’ve happened that year. This is to also say this event had nothing to do with “freedom” or “democracy” or whatever pigshit your favorite rush limburger propagandist spoon feeds you, it was a funeral service that was hijacked to unseat the Chinese government - which so coincidentally is a speciality of the agency the second person we’re talking about.
Ambassador James Lilley, the son of an american expat oil executive for Standard Oil, was a CIA agent operating in east Asia from 1951 to 1981 with little officially known about him (I know for a fact he’s fucked around Korea and Laos, so it’s not a stretch to say he’s likely been involved with every conflict that occured during his official career). In his “post” CIA career he’s acted as a diplomatic liason to the provice of Taiwan, a teacher to future state department ghouls, and “helped” South Korea end its military dicatorship by helping the military win the election “democratically”, and abruptly five days after the death of General Secretary Hu Yaobang James Lilley was appointed as the US Ambassador to China by also former CIA ghoul and president of the United States George H. W. Bush. What an astounding coincidence.
And just a reminder. In communist China, you can be a pain in the ass by obstructing tanks trying to exist a parade, argue with the commander, then get rushed away by other normal people going “dude what the Hell’s your problem”
Lmao was just about to say, one of these is not like the other.
Did you even read your own articles or did you just cherry-pick quotes? For instance the conclusion of the BBC article:
There was no Tiananmen Square massacre, but there was a Beijing massacre.
The shorthand we often use of the “Tiananmen Square protests” of 1989 gives the impression that this was just a Beijing issue. It was not.
Protests occurred in almost every city in China (even in a town on the edge of the Gobi desert).
What happened in 1989 was by far the most widespread pro-democracy upheaval in communist China’s history. It was also by far the bloodiest suppression of peaceful dissent.
You useful idiots are going to be among the first against the wall to find out about China’s mercy I imagine. You’ll demand to fellate the firing squad beforehand.
idgi what are you trying to say here?
China hunts down useful idiots? All their firing squad members have penises? The Great Wall is used for executions?
When the People’s Liberation Army makes landfall on the western shores of North America, I will be here to greet them as heroes
Useful idiots believing CBS, NY Times, Reuters and BBC?
Thank you, very frustrated that I had to scroll so far down to find this with regard to the so-called Tiananmen Square “massacre”
I do appreciate skepticism wherever applicable, but China keeps getting handed from one Dictatorship to another so it’s hard to see them as victims unless they make some effort to change in more ways than just economically. It also sounds like complete bullshit that the “armed and dangerous protestors” died in equal number to “unarmed and unhelmeted military personnel.” Like, for real? Those tanks in a line were made of cardboard?
Why not educate yourself instead of just regurgitating nonsense
ha, “rumble”. is it ever going to dawn on you that all your grayzone, jimmy dore, glenn greenwald, caitlin johnstone, et cetera bullshit that claims to be leftist is funded by right-wing billionaire peter thiel, and run out the same offices as trump’s “truth social”?
useful idiots indeed.
What does the site the content is hosted on have to do with the actual content which you obviously did not watch. Utter brain rot on display here. It’s an interview with the US puppet who started the protest and what she herself is saying about it. The fact that you didn’t address that and went off on an idiotic rant about rumble really says all we need to know about your intellectual capacity.
Great job comrade, president XiJing Ping will personally give you an offer to be an officer in Uigyur internment camps.
WuMao.
The Australian’s about their treatment of
aboriginesfirst nation AustraliansThe Irish about mother and baby homes.
China about Uyghurs
Didn’t a bunch of Muslim countries actually ask China about Uyghurs (and even visit Xinjiang) and they left unanimously content with the response?
Yes. The only country worried about it is the same one that’s actually killed millions of Muslims over the last 20 years
Israel or America?
Yes
They only did it to bring them democracy!
Well yeah, of course I’d trust the experts in genocide over countries that have no experience.
should be easy enough for you to provide a legitimate source to this claim.
please note the word “legitimate”
"The five-day visit took place last week and included envoys from countries including Algeria, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Yemen and Pakistan. The >delegation visited the provincial capital Urumqi in addition to Kashgar and Aksu prefectures. They were met by Ma Xingrui, secretary of the >Party Committee of Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region.
A spokesperson for theFforeign Ministry, Hua Chunying said the diplomats visited mosques, Islamic schools, museums, old city renovation, >grassroots communities, technology enterprises, green development and rural revitalisation projects.
“Members of the delegation expressed that the Chinese government adheres to the people-centred approach and has made great >achievements in promoting the governance and development of Xinjiang,” she said." Algeria’s Ambassador to China, Hassane Rabehi, was quoted by local media as saying, “The fruit here is so sweet, just like the life of the >people here”, adding that he got to know the “real situation” of Xinjiang, where the rights of people of all ethnic groups are well protected, >said reports.
Following the event, a press release by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs stated that envoys expressed that “freedom of religious belief and >various rights of Muslims are duly guaranteed.” And that what the delegation saw and heard along the way “is completely different from what >some Western media reported.”
Per https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/middle-east-monitor/
“MEMO generally supports Islamist positions” “the Middle East Monitor promotes a strongly pro-Muslim Brotherhood and pro-Hamas viewpoint” " We could not find any instances of the Middle East Monitor failing fact checks"
The source in this article is a direct quote from government officials both China and from the countries that sent the delegates. If in fact there was a “genocide” I would expect a “pro-Muslim” news outlet to agree with what western media is spouting.
Does this pass your legitimacy test? If not, why?
The other reply to this post provides a pretty legitimate source.
But, well, it’s not exactly hard to Google.
I bet they did according to Xi and the CCP, but not in reality.
Even if they did, they’re probably faking it because trade with China is more important to them than human rights, just like the US and Saudi Arabia or the other Western countries and the US…
“aborigines” is not a great word to use these days. It’s generally seen as pretty offensive to Indigenous Australians as it’s a bit dehumanising and comes from colinisers who treated people like animals.
Better to go with “First Nations people”, “Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people” or “Indigenous Australians.”
But yes, they’ve been treated (and in many cases continue to be treated) pretty horribly.
Thanks. I kinda knew it wasn’t great, but didn’t know the correct term.
Yeah that used to be used as a racist way to refer to them
Russians about Crimea and Donbass
The one that confuses me, is the statement about the Irish.
I guess you could say ask the Catholic church about Irish mother and baby homes. But the meme was doing nations.
Blaming the Catholic Church is a good way to start but the argument that Irish people were led astray by the Church is pretty much the same argument as those who seek to divorce the Wehrmacht from complicity in SS atrocities. In both cases the answer is that they shared vital infrastructure with each other and ranking officials could have stopped the excesses, which they had full knowledge of, if they’d have disagreed with it.
Ask them about their tax avoidance schemes for big tech
australia has much more shit going… like storing asylumseekers in some far away islands
The US about indigenous Americans.
Oh wait, they made hundreds of movies about killing them.
That really is one of the most absurd things about the American Empire. They’ll come and destroy your people, taint and corrupt your land with bones and blood, bomb you back into the stone age, and then make a trillion dollar budget film about how it made them feel sad. The othering is so powerful that emotions only exist within the walls of capital
But I wouldn’t blame this. The people making the movies hasn’t been in common with the crime.
Never ask a Lemmy user where they’ve hidden the good posts.
“Was there a massacre in Tiananmen Square?”
—“No.”
“Were people killed elsewhere in Beijing?”
—“…Ermh…”
“Ahem. I am asking you if people were killed in the area immediately surrounding Tiananmen Square, even if nobody was killed in the square itself.”
—“The protesters in Tiananmen Square left after negotiations with the PLA. There was no bloodshed in Tiananmen Square.”
“I understand that, but were people killed elsewhere in Beijing?”
—“Nowhere in Beijing were student protestors specifically targeted.”
“Well, were non-students targeted, and were any students injured or killed without being targeted?”
—“Hey did you know that the Three Gorges Dam is the world’s largest—”
“Gongchandang, my friend, I am begging you.”
—“…Force may have been used when provoked by attacks.”
“May force have also been used unprovoked? Could it have been that the protesters felt like they were provoked first, because you were sending tanks past the barricades that they’d put up?”
—“I mean… you know… uhh…”
“Gongchandang. Were you scared that the occupation of Beijing and the potential of a workers’ revolt would threaten the survival of socialism in China, by presenting a still-socialist alternative to your rule, because societal division particularly among the less politically literate could be (and was) exploited by outside forces?”
—“OUR YOUTH ARE VULNERABLE TO IMPERIALIST PROPAGANDA, OK‽ ALSO, TANK MAN DIDN’T GET RUN OVER. SEE. HE WAS PULLED AWAY BY A PASSERBY. NOT RUN OVER.”
I don’t know if I would have user Tiananmen Square.
The Uighur re-education cities seems far more fitting.
Or the invasion of Vietnam… Or the annexation of Tibet… Or the bullying of Southeast Asian countries… Or the great leap forward… Or the communist land reforms… Or the anti counterrevolutionary campaigns
The CCP leaves you no end of really good options to pick here.
If these “cities” exist which are claimed to have imprisoned millions of people where are the photos?
Do you realize how much physical space that many people takes up in addition to supplying them?
Yeah tiananmen is such a meme at this point. You can tell when people base their entire politics on memes and don’t bother reading and searching on their own. Tiananmen is an issue they won’t step mentioning.
You don’t criticize China for Tiananmen Square? HUH?
I think the other comment on this thread addressed it pretty well: https://hexbear.net/comment/4003110
I’m pretty skeptical about taking political positions from memes, and when I’ve done my own research on this, I failed to find valid reasons that this issue should get the attention that the Internet gives it. There are many other issues that are worth my attention. This one isn’t.
deleted by creator
Plenty of sources provided in there (ny times, reuters, etc), but if you were the kind to examine evidence, you wouldn’t be here anyways.
deleted by creator
I love how you ignored everything in the article except what could possibly agree with your viewpoint. On your first quote, the link they cite does not exist anymore. In the video you linked, I hear gunshots but don’t see people running away from them. As someone from a country that saw unrest and shooting at protests, I can tell you that people immediately start running when they’re shot at, emptying the area. Not continue to March nonchalantly.
In the end, I want to conclude with saying that I didn’t deny that anyone died (although the comment I linked does seem to imply that. My apologies for not clarifying, as I was only using them to back up my opinion). What I said in the original comment is that it is not an issue worth my attention. I’ve seen and read about so many government rerpression, and this is far from being in the top 10. It’s an unnecessarily magnified issue.
Numerous military buses, trucks, armored vehicles, and tanks being burned by the “peaceful” protesters. Sometimes the soldiers were allowed to escape, and sometimes they were brutally killed by the protesters. Numerous protesters were armed with Molotov cocktails and even guns.
Sounds like a full blown insurrection.
Not even going to click on that, the domain tells me everything I need to know considering the topic we talk about!
I mean, it’s a variety of sourced quotes from respected journalists who were there. You probably should read them all, if only so you can point out to the Hexbears where they mention all the people who died in the area around the Square. The sources mostly say “no one got gunned down literally in the Square.”
In any case, it’s fucking weird to obsess over it. It’s like trying to give Biden crap about the Kent State Massacre while he’s rounding up all the Mormons.
Plenty of evidence cited there from multiple sources. You don’t have to open it, I understand some of you prefer meme politics over informed opinions
Abother user made a very good comment about this under my post, might be worth checking out!
I agree with that commenter. I do not claim that “nothing happened”. I said this in my earlier comments, that I just don’t think it’s a problem worth my attention.
I knew this was going to be the only one people tried to deny in this thread, but I didn’t figure it would be OP
What do you mean don’t ask the UK about African interment camps?
Our lovely Tory government spent most of last year proud of trying to deport asylum seekers to fucking Rwanda. Like it was some sort of vote winner.
I think it’s unfair to suggest that the UK Government doesn’t like you asking about African internment camps.
They also don’t like you asking about:
- the conditions under which refugees are currently housed, give you a clue it kind of rhymes historically with internment camps
- Various Indian famines that were caused or exacerbated by colonial rule
- role in slave trade. Yes they ended the slave trade… by compensating slave owners. Also started the fucking thing.
- That time we basically stole an entire island from its people to put an airbase there.
- linked to the internment camps, pretty much anything Churchill did prior to the Second World War and after it also.
- the undercover activities of the police investigating environmental groups e.g. having children by the people they were surveilling.
There’s probably several pages of this but I’ve only just woken up.
The British Empire once covered over a quarter of the Earth’s land area. Even the Mongols never managed that.
And by “once”, it’s not ancient history. It was 1920.
It’s horrifying, and we’re almost certainly responsible for more suffering than any other country on Earth, but also kind of impressive. There are just 22 countries we never invaded.
We could also blame UK for the existence of USA
Don’t look at us, it was the Spanish that found it.
Well, after all those people that were already on it, obviously. But they hardly count. They weren’t white. But according to Americans, neither are the Spanish, so…
What about the boers?
And the Kenyans. The English developed concentration camps in South African and used them in Kenya during the Mau Mau rebellion.
I mean they were great as footballers but honestly both don’t cut it as managers
imagine believing tiananmen square is in any way comparable to the rest of this list. OP showing their whole ass
Death to America
what do you mean 300 deaths isn’t in any way comparable to thousands/millions of deaths during the Holocaust, Aremnian genocide, Bengal famine, Operation Condor or Japanese occupation?
Smooth-brained western Chinese apologists is not what I was expecting from the future of the internet even 5 years ago. Our atrocities are totally cool, eh? Nice.
yeah, next the internet will be defending Iraqi incubator babies or Saddam’s people-shredder.
also, very rude of you to assume im a mayo western cracker.
Atrocity propaganda is a real phenomenon used by westerners to inflate problems of non-western societies and deflate the genocides done by the west. You’ve fallen for it
No, it is true. US tried to stir up some trouble and it didn’t work. That is import to remember the people that dies because of US greed
What is a western China? There’s only one China.
If you try act like a redditor and go “its what i call taiwan” then you’re literally bumbling around like a drunken dipshit who insists calling the United States “Northern Florida”. Although if we’re to make more accurate historical inference, it would be apt to say you’re the equivalent of those “The South Shall Rise Again” cross-burning confederate dipshits that never shut up about the massive L you took
They mean Chinese apologists from the west.
I for one am not apologizing for much of anything really. Mistakes have been made but the party has grown from that and critiques those. None of these are what these anti-chinese people are saying though
Hundreds, thousands, millions. It’s all the same because people died and the people that died weren’t white.
mao could give a kid cancer and youd spin it somehow, deluded
Found the Tankie
Found the Dronie
Nope, believe it or not, its possible to believe that killing civilians is wrong, regardless of who does it.
Consider the hypothetical, Texas has decided to secede and has had a majority of the population vote on a referendum to do so. Rather than becoming independent they wish to join Mexico, Mexico agrees as there is a large portion of Texas that speaks Spanish and there is a historical precedent of Mexico owning that territory.
The rest of the United States doesn’t want this and considers this illegal, a nationalist division of the U.S military decides to engage in sustained artillery bombardment of the cities: Dallas, Austin, and Houston.
Mexico seeing the devastation of people now considered Mexican organizes two separate talks to try and work out some sort of cease fire and pathway forward that respects the will of the people. The nationalist division pays no mind to any sort of agreement and continues the bombardment, Mexico decides that enough is enough and sends its military in to secure Texas as well as destroy the nationalist division.
In this analogy, the United States is Ukraine, Texas is the Donbass, and Mexico is Russia.
Sadly war is hell, if only the peace talks weren’t sabotaged by Boris Johnson otherwise the Russia-Ukraine war would be over.
WuMao
But you are currently admitting it happened, right?
yeah buddy, ya got me. the cia’s attempt to overthrow the communist party of China failed, but succeeded in getting a few hundred people killed. not exactly the Holocaust libs love to claim it was
Death to America
Hand check
How a person reacts to being asked about the version of these things most close to them is telling. If they get defensive and deny the event happened, I would hesitate to trust their opinion on other things. Clearly that person bases their opinions on what they want to be true rather than reality. That’s the kind of person whose ideology would likely lead to another event to be ashamed of. If, on the other hand, they admit it was a horrible thing and agree that people should be educated on it and that steps should be taken to prevent it from ever happening again, then I’m more likely to take their opinion seriously and believe that they can be part of the conversations we need to happen to create a better world.
Don’t ask the French (Police) what happened in 17 October 1961
TIL !
The Ukrainian Government, OUN.
Don’t ask the UK anything about their troubling history with black people or slavery unless it’s to mention that they were one of the first countries to stop making black people property. They get really mad if you mention anything but that.
Do we fuck, knobhead.
