NormalC

It is not “intended” to be an OS if you use GNU Hurd. That is literally the name of the operating system that launched the entire libre software movement. You don’t engage with it that way because linux comms don’t bother to educate their users at all.

Rms was right, “linux” users don’t care about history and “linux” communties stopped giving a shit.

First of all, this copypasta has never been said by anyone at the FSF or from the GNU project. People falsly attribute it to rms even though he has already made his thoughts clear on the matter. It’s just misinformation and a bastardized take on the naming discussion.

I mean most Linux systems with a few exceptions (looking at you Alpine) use gnu software in them

It’s not “GNU software in a linux system”, again, GNU is the name of the operating system. GNU packages were developed for that operating system. Alpine is not GNU, it is a NonGNU/Busybox + Linux operating system mainly targeted for embedded devices. Linux is not a GNU package, but was liberated by Torvalds to be included in the GNU operating system which we now refer to completely as GNU/Linux.

and it is a somewhat fair argument to say that a kernel isn’t an entire operating system and other factors should be considered

Such as the freedom of software writers and computer users. Calling the operating system “Linux” is taking away (even if not by intent) the very principle of freedom of the GNU operating system. It isn’t “somewhat fair”, far too many people who use Free software do not understand it entirely and thus are vulnerable to closing their hands from further liberation.

Also why the quotation marks? It is a Linux joke, and if you don’t like our humor than you can just kinda… Ignore it?

If “Linux humor” is repeating the same 5 or so jokes and endless banter about the same topics then it isn’t productive. Especially if that humor is just spreading misinformation in service of a cheap gag made by others. I’m just calling it out when I see it because I’m done giving a lot of yall the benefit of the doubt anymore.

Yeah these would be called NonGNU/Linux or Busybox/Linux.

Literally please stop posting this copypasta. I know you “linux” users only have like 4 jokes but this is just outdated and also false.

Because what you mentioned is ahistorical and based off reactionary history by bad actors.

Rms draws the line a GNU because GNU stands for a free operating system, which is what the GNU project is aiming towards. If this were purely a discussion about technicality, then we would be wise to let the matter drop, but that’s not whats at stake here.

shouldn’t I call my system Plasma/KWin/pacman/systemd/GNU/Linux?

You can, you literally can and it would be better that way to accurately describe what operating system you’re running. The shortest possible name is GNU, but that would be unfair to the contribution made by the linux foundation and the fact that multiple kernel projects do exist: so the name is GNU/Linux.

His essays on the topic which are publicaly accessible from the GNU website do discuss this.

other than to stroke his own ego

Rest assured that rms does not doing this out of ego tripping. Maybe you should tease Linus Torvalds for calling his kernel linux and the ENTIRE operating system linux. Torvalds is a multimillionaire who has used an apple M1 laptop. Stallman has never budged on libre software and directs his own life by his own stated principles. Call Rms stubborn, but never call him egotistical.

None of this is directed at you btw, it’s just something that always springs to mind for me whenever this topic comes up.

Please read Free Software, Free Society by Richard M Stallman so that this doesn’t have to keep springing up anymore. There are very few “linux” comm members who have read the foundational literature in full so I hope you do take my advice.

GNU is the name of the operating system. GNU packages like glibc and gcc can be used for an operating system. Gzip is a GNU package.

GNU is not a set of programs or libraries, it’s an operating system.

GNU packages is what you are referring to. But GNU itself is the name of the OS.

Oh no not your precious “linux” community. I’m so sorry for your loss.

Someone’s mad lol.

Im sorry you’re insecure. I scream GNU because I’m not embarassed about having an opinion.

My “cause” doesn’t include kissing your ass when you feel uncomfortable.

No one is here to coddle your feelings. Enjoy being a loser bootlicker, you never cared in the first place and want to project that onto others.

I mean the GPL allowed linux to become a commercial entity. And the whole “professional” outlook is because theres a ton of companies who contribute either funds or development to the project.

Hurd is not a monolithic kernel, so it’s an interesting technical endeavor. It’s also a GNU package which means it’s guaranteed to stay libre.

Hurd is also a smaller project relative to linux without the many eyes of the Linux board members.

It is a “zealot” opinion because I don’t topple over at the slightest breeze.

Both Linux and Hurd are libre software. However, the freedom of linux is compromised as torvalds set the standard for how OEMs can circumvent the GPLv2.

“viable competitor” is not the correct term to use. It miscontrues decades of history and circumstance.

Hurd is far better than Linux in terms of ensuring your freedom. But linux is better for getting more folks onto the freedom ladder. Linux however, isn’t the end goal: GNU is. If you don’t know what that means, congrats, you’re part of the problem.

GNU has their own kernel, called linux-libre, which follows the same set of principles as Hurd. It won’t function 100% on modern OEM hardware but its important as message towards freedom.

I use a blobbed kernel one if my machines, but I also have a librebooted debian thinkpad. I am intensely interested in a fully free OS, this is why i seem stubborn to those who don’t even keep what Im saying in mind.

• https://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/members

Top members are all companies that have made bank abusing their users to no end. Linus Torvalds refuses to upgrade to GPLv3 because he doesn’t see the value for enforced freedom restrictions. He is a “freedom for me, but not for thee” type of person. Hurd on the other hand will never suffer this issue because of it being a GNU package.

The kernel is filled to the brim with nonfree firmware blobs. These blobs can be updated/modified by the vendor but not by the user, by that definition, they are nonfree. You could say that Linus Torvalds chose the “pragmatic” option. You wouldn’t be wrong to deduce that none of the companies on that board member list would EVER contribute to the kernel if they had to also respect the user’s freedom.

But that’s the thing, Torvalds still sold out. Scandals like the proprietary Nvidia driver (which will now get its home in nonfree firmware) gets to happen (and will continue to happen) because the precedent was set. Torvalds historically didn’t even want to liberate his kernel until he was convinced by the work of the GNU project to do so.

Torvalds is the poster boy because he does not threaten any sort of status quo. No one is immune to propaganda, and the Torvalds “Open Source” media narrative is still the dominant one. The GNU/Linux vs. Linux controversy is propelled by this Faustian pact.

Using Microsoft Windows or any of its derivatives is endorsement of that software. Every user of Windows is a sucker. OP’s post is not the end nor the start.

Get real, the audience of Windows is an audience of self-enabling victims.

“But I have to use it for work!!! I have to make money!”

You are still a sucker and perpetuating this broken system. If that makes you angry, it should, the artifice of respectable neo-liberal society was stripped from you.

No , you just gave up. Stop lying to yourself. You hide behind muh affordability because that’s the convenient excuse to use to not think about this.

The status quo will benefit you for giving up entirely and disparaging those who advocate for freedom.

“Teenage me” sounds like a mask off moment for you being a bitter out of touch person. You endorse the status quo and hide it under emotional rants of being more mature than the rest of us.

“Nothing is pure… Rant about corpo crap”

I’m only commenting to this because I don’t want younger folks or to be caught up in your self hate spiral.

Its GNU/Linux because clowns like you exist and won’t shut up. People deserve better, they don’t deserve someone like you frothing at the mouth at the fact that you don’t believe a better world is possible.

You’re incredibly lucky that a majority of “Linux”/tech communities tolerate you.

But you enable MS’s bad behavior. They know you all have no backbone.

There’s no strawmanning, just the consequences of endorsing abusive behavior done by parasites.

Have fun with your digital Stockholm syndrome and corpo mindshare.

Man, people like you are why we have to call it GNU/Linux. You have no core principles.

I hate this language, its so fucking dehumanizing. “Viable competitor” is such bullshit. Torvalds gave away his commitment to freedom with binary blobs. That’s his decision to do. But to label Hurd on that same level is the biggest disservice to history you could ever do.

Hurd will never be the “viable competitor” because you hold selfish attitudes about how makes software valuable or not.

Torvalds sold out. Hurd didn’t.