PHOENIX (AP) – The 2024 presidential election is drawing an unusually robust field of independent, third party and long shot candidates hoping to capitalize on Americans’ ambivalence and frustration over a likely rematch between Democrat Joe Biden and Republican Donald Trump.

    • stopthatgirl7@kbin.socialOP
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      1 year ago

      I think a lot of people thinking about voting third party are going to need reasons TO vote for someone, not reasons to not vote for the other guy. Telling them “it’s just voting for Trump” isn’t going to convince them.

      And no, I’m not planning on voting third party. But finger-wagging won’t convince anyone already looking elsewhere.

      • Blackbeard@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        If a Trump presidency doesn’t scare the shit out of them at this point, then they were already looking for excuses to support him, and “I want someone to vote FOR” is just a stupid excuse.

        Like, I want a gazillion dollars and a private island, but I also don’t smear shit on the walls of the public library when I wake up and don’t get those things. Anyone who does, just wanted to smear shit on the walls.

        • NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
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          1 year ago

          Yup. It is basically the same as how Romney and Cheney are “good republicans” because they want all the same shit trump does but want to pretend they are classier than that

        • APassenger@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I haven’t seen Dark Brandon in a while. Like, months.

          I vote FOR Dark Brandon. I’ll give Biden my vote over Trump. Those are different things, even if the objective measure looks the same.

          I’d like to vote for DB and get him.

          • Blackbeard@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Hey man, the dude has enough sense to understand that between the situations in Ukraine and Israel, the world is in a fucked up place at the moment. He’s a lifelong statesman, and he’s probably telling his more aggressive political advisors to back the hell off so we can figure out what the hell is going on and maybe get our hostages to safety. I respect him for that, and I’m not entirely convinced that being combative or bellicose would be even remotely helpful right now, despite the fact that it would make you feel better in the here and now.

            So you don’t get Dark Brandon exactly when you want him? And you have to wait…checks notes…a few months? Tough shit. If you have to wait months for him to come out, imagine how many decades you’re going to wait for the institutions of this country to recover from this. If “I had to wait months for Dark Brandon” is enough for you to waffle on the gravity of your decision in 2024, then you were already lost before this conversation started.

            • HarkMahlberg@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              To be fair to OP, I’ve seen “Dark Brandon” more as a meme to vex conservatives, used when Biden accomplishes a one of his policies, and particularly when fighting to get student loans forgiven.

              • APassenger@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                This.

                Dark Brandon gets policy wins, judges in seats, he moves things. He gets funding for Ukraine.

                I haven’t seen as much of that.

                Israel isn’t something I agree as much with him on, but that’s not what I was talking about.

            • APassenger@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              It’s been a few days so this thread should largely be inert.

              I’m not sure who you were replying to because it wasn’t me.

              I said nothing about Israel. I said I’d give him my vote. Your tone was dismissive to someone who wrote what you wanted to read, but I did not say or imply.

              Not interested in a flame war, only discussion. If you respond with hostility or more bad faith, you’ll get the last word - I’ll not reply.

              • Blackbeard@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Joe Biden and Dark Brandon are the same person. You’re splitting rhetorical hairs for the sake of argumentation, based largely on a meme, and there’s no need for me to substantially respond to what is largely a meaningless assertion. You just refuse to give Biden credit for Dark Brandon’s accomplishments, which is insane.

                • APassenger@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  I used a rhetorical device to easily distinguish what excites me about him being president versus what’s meh. It worked and works.

                  Most people know they aren’t going to see a DB meme for the Israel topic *that you introduced from… Somewhere? *

                  He’s chalked up wins and I know he’ll end up with L’s. But I prefer seeing him using his political capital on the economy, green energy, trust busting, courts… The virtuous things Roosevelts did.

                  You keep implying I said something I didn’t and your post history is argumentative. Smart, but too many elbows. This will be my last reply.

                  • Blackbeard@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    You made an assertion that amounts to little more than “I like him when he does some things, but not when he does others.”

                    No shit, sherlock. That’s how all of this works. You want a cookie?

        • Neato@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          Anyone not terrified of a Republican and/or Trump presidency has a shitton of privilege and needs to fucking check it. Cishet, white and men are prominent demographics for “he won’t hurt me too badly” and by the time the redcaps come for those not in lockstep it’ll be far, far too late.

      • Potatofish@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Nah, the number one reason to vote lately is to prevent Trump from pissing all over democracy. Even Republicans are joining in.

          • BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            1 year ago

            We’re not a democracy, we’re a republic.

            Not that that’s any better, but there is a difference between the two

            • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              We’re not a democracy, we’re a republic.

              Things Republicans say when defending voter suppression.

              • BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                1 year ago

                If me stating a simple fact upsets you, that’s your own problem.

                I am far from a republicunt, buddy. Even a 2-second look through my profile should show you that.

                Maybe stop drawing absurd conclusions

                • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  If you don’t want me pointing out that you’re using the same argument here that Republicans use when they’re defending voter suppression, select a different argument than the one Republicans use when they’re defending voter suppression.

                  • BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                    1 year ago

                    It’s not an argument, it’s a factual statement. There is no debate here. I stated the fact that we are a republic, not a democracy. Am I happy with it? No. So I support it? No.

                    It’s not an argument. It’s not a debate. It’s not a defense. It’s just a fact.

                    You interpreting this as anything else is entirely your fault.

      • lolcatnip@reddthat.com
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        1 year ago

        In other words lots of people have an incredibly childish attitude about voting and are completely prepared to throw a little tantrum in the voting booth even if it means fascists get to take over the whole federal government. I’m becoming pretty convinced that people like that are just incapable of rational decision making.

        • CoggyMcFee@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          It’s crazy how people view voting. In life we have so many situations where we look at realistic options and choose the best thing, or even the least bad thing, from those options.

          But then with voting people feel like making their vote should be like wishing on a birthday cake. It’s totally irrational, as you say.

          • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            If we don’t accept that irrational people exist and do what we can to get their votes, we risk the return of Trump.

            But it’s way more fun to shout at them.

            • Eldritch@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              One can’t cater to or court the irrational. We can however stop humoring them and giving them undeserved respect. That might lead more rational people to mistakenly consider them.

              • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                One can’t cater to or court the irrational.

                Republicans keep doing it. They beat Clinton in 2016 by doing it.

                Centrist Democrats would rather lose than debase themselves by moving one Planck length to the left.

                • Eldritch@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  And it’s coming back to bite them in the ass. Further, condoning and catering to those views only speeds up the rotting brain mush that is the current American political psyche. Making it easier for fascist strong men to take over. On undeliverable promises of candy mountains and soda pop swimming pools. As a socialist largely opposed to Democrats neoliberal economic plans. I can still support them, as our best current possible option. But they absolutely do need to promote themselves better.

                  But Republicans have cornered the market on those who enjoy being lied to at infinitem. And it is simply not a viable tactic for democrats to even try to steal that group from them.

                  • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    And it’s coming back to bite them in the ass.

                    So first it’ll never work, and now it works but it’s biting Republicans in the ass by… giving them control of the House and the Supreme Court. When you’re finally done moving goalposts, please return them.

                    As a socialist largely opposed to Democrats neoliberal economic plans. I can still support them, as our best current possible option.

                    Yeah, I can support them too. That doesn’t mean I need to shut up when I think they’re making stupid mistakes, particularly since they’re gonna blame me for the results regardless of who I vote for.

          • Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            If you’re at a restaurant and they don’t have anything you want, you can go to a different restaurant.

            In this case I’m tied to a chair and forced to pick a douche or a shit sandwich while people tell me I’m a bad person for not wanting either.

            • CoggyMcFee@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              An apt analogy would be: you are diagnosed with cancer, and you can choose to (a) go through treatment and have a high chance of survival, or (b) let the cancer run its course and die.

              Voting third party in this country is equivalent to saying “I’m going to go to a faith healer instead”. You think you’re choosing a more appealing option but you’re actually just choosing option b.

            • Blackbeard@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Nah, fuck that. A restaurant doesn’t serve cocaine-laced cupcakes that give you an orgasm, yet you still down the bacon cheeseburger because the latter tastes good and the former simply isn’t an option. Anyone who walks in and refuses to order from the menu because they can’t get a blowjob and a back massage with it, is a fucking moron.

              • Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                You don’t walk in an order from the menu. You’re born in the restaurant, tied to a chair, told it’s the greatest restaurant ever created, and given two horrible choices.

                And then people like you yell at me for pointing this out.

        • Sybil@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          lots of people have an incredibly childish attitude about voting and are completely prepared to throw a little tantrum in the voting booth even if it means fascists get to take over the whole federal government. I’m becoming pretty convinced that people like that are just incapable of rational decision making.

          i would believe you were talking about people voting for republicans or people voting for democrats. everyone else is trying to avoid a further slide into fascism.

        • YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Trump might be the biggest reason to vote against him, but Republicans have played all their cards and threatened the American people’s rights. Even if he is locked up, Biden would still win.

      • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        And no, I’m not planning on voting third party. But finger-wagging won’t convince anyone already looking elsewhere.

        [finger-wagging intensifies]

      • spider@lemmy.nz
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        1 year ago

        Telling them “it’s just voting for Trump” isn’t going to convince them.

        They also use that argument against people who don’t show up to vote – the very same people who might show up for a candidate they want to vote for.

        In other words, despite conventional wisdom to the contrary, they might not vote for a two-party candidate anyway.

        • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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          There are people who, despite the entirety of human history, fail to take into account that people aren’t always rational. In fact, they’re deeply offended by the suggestion and become hostile towards anyone who suggests that they should take this into account, even in situations in which the consequences for failing to do so are dire.