- cross-posted to:
- linux_lugcast@lemux.minnix.dev
- cross-posted to:
- linux_lugcast@lemux.minnix.dev
Nobara OS, Arch Linux and Pop!_OS beat Windows 11 by a slim margin in fps (delta 8) in Windows native games - Cyberpunk 2077, Forspoken, Starfield and The Talos Principle II. Windows 11 wins in Rachet & Clank.
ComputerBase’s testing was done on an all-AMD test rig, featuring a Ryzen 7 5800X (non-3D) and a Radeon RX 6700 XT.
Update: Windows 11 wins in one game.
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Is arch really gaming focused though?
shrug, I’ve been using arch and Manjaro for years and gaming in them. They are what you make them, and AUR is massive and solves a lot of problems I have in other distros so that’s why I use it.
Arch is focused on however you put it together
Arch is focused like the same way a beach is a camera lens.
Exactly. The only thing Arch focuses on is not focusing on anything. They ship packages as vanilla as possible, have pretty much no default configuration, etc. In short, they try to make as few assumptions as possible.
It ends up being pretty good for gaming because Linux is pretty good for gaming. They’re explicitly not doing anything special here.
Arch is focused on being cutting-edge and lightweight which happens to be perfect for gaming performance in most cases but that’s all.
SteamOS is based on Arch, likely why they picked it.
That’s like saying PlayStation 5 and Switch are based on FreeBSD, so you should game on FreeBSD (well, not quite, but hopefully the point is clear). FreeBSD isn’t good for gaming, it’s just liberally licensed and easy to build on top of, hence why it’s used.
Valve has reasons to use an Arch base, and none of them have anything to do with any specific benefit regarding gaming. It’s easy to fork and maintain customized build files for since it makes so few assumptions (packages are as vanilla as possible in Arch, so it’s easier to maintain a patch set).
Valve likely has patches in SteamOS that haven’t made it to upstream Arch, and there’s likely a number of packages that are quite outdated vs upstream Arch, so installing upstream Arch will give you quite a different experience vs SteamOS.
Soooo when did Arch become a gaming focused OS?
Since Valve decided that.
I recently switched to ubuntu in a gaming laptop, right now I’ve been using it just for jellyfin and some other coding tasks, but it definitely runs smoother, more stable, quicker, and cooler than windows did for the same workload.
I was surprised at the difference of even just having the machine idle, on windows it was noticeable warm, now on ubuntu it’s almost as if it has been turned off.Honestly, at this point – If Valve made a more generalized Linux OS… or even at the very least started making honest proposals at unifying how the OS ran, so that their efforts in getting gaming to work on it could be more widely productive; we could see a radical shift in adoption.
Now now, I’m not saying YEAR OF LINUX ON THE DESKTOP!! - but Valve would be a great mother for fostering an ecosystem that would potentially make Microsoft compete by not making their OS shittier year-by-year.
If Valve made a Linux OS… or even at the very least started making honest proposals at unifying how the OS ran, so that their efforts in getting gaming to work on it could be more widely productive; we could see a radical shift in adoption.
Sorry, does SteamOS 3 not count? Is Valve’s massive investment in Mesa, Wine, Wayland (HDR, Gamescope, etc) not exactly what you’re talking about? I feel like we’re living in parallel dimensions or something lol
Yh it does count although it only supports a certain set of hardware. Not entirely sure if that’s true though.
Yes but the improvements and contributing Valve made to various packages in the Linux ecosystem and the kernel were all pushed upstream meaning any Linux distribution can benefit from them.
Aren’t all of these things basically out-of-band investments? They didn’t recontribute upstream to these projects from what I understand, but they made their own forks and developed on those - or those projects have scurried to backport the changes Valve has made, simply being lucky enough that the licenses required them to remain open so the changes could be pulled backwards into public projects.
SteamOS is not a General Purpose OS. It is a hardware-specific Linux fork of Arch. Not the same thing.
So while yes, Valve has used Linux quite gracefully for their ends; my point was that if they acted more as an orchestrator and guided the community in the general OS space, they would be good stewards for doing so.
Valve didn’t invest in Wine. They forked it, called it Proton, developed that, and Wine can only benefit if they scurry and ‘chase’ the changes in Proton. There’s nothing wrong with that - but it’s hardly conducive to improving existing projects.
Aren’t all of these things basically out-of-band investments? They didn’t recontribute upstream to these projects from what I understand
Maintaining a fork is not mutually exclusive with contributing changes upstream. Valve’s policy is to upstream everything.
So many errors in what you’ve said. Valve made Proton with the developers from CodeWeavers who make Wine, quite literally investing in the developers and development of Wine itself. And given Valve upstream everything, your comments about forking, back porting, etc are quite ill informed.
Steam deck was definitely a move in this direction. From what I hear people like it. If they like it, I see more traction to it as people understand that it’s not windows. Ya never know. 2035: year of the Linux desktop!
It’s the most incredible piece of hardware I bought since the switch OLED
But that’s not how Linux anarchy works. There’s no one to appeal to.
Computerbase is very solid and well known in Germany and have been covering Linux quite a bit for a while now.
Performance of course can fluctuate heavily between games but the amount of progress that Linux made over the past decade is nothing but astonishing.that’s kind of my take on it too. Linux has come so far from what it used to be like. it’s not quite ready to see mass-adoption, but it’s making some amazing strides. so many different parties have been contributing to a massive effort to iron out some of the issues with Linux. once performance improves significantly over Windows, and compatibility gets a little more wide-spread, you’ll start to see people willing to put up with the teething problems, in the name of superior performance.
THAT is when Linux will see more mainstream success.
some year, i don’t know when, really will be the year of Linux… maybe.
I don’t think we’ll see like some definitive year of Linux, instead we will just have slowly rising user numbers. The only exception would be if Microsoft fucks up so badly that it will completely drive people away from Windows.
You mean worse than the train wreck of 11?
You mean worse than the train wreck of Vista, then 8, then 11? Yes they will continue to do worse for most people but it wont matters as long as it is the default choice.
Always count on a corporation to make something worse.
Apparently so. At least that’s what the numbers suggest.
Description is false. Windows won in R&C. This was not an across the board win for Linux. Good news doesn’t need to be sensationalized.
Updated the summary about Windows winning.
These tech YouTubers should do Linux comparisons. These are not small differences when comparing, let’s say, Nvidia 4060 and the RX 7600. It could make the AMD GPU edge out the more expensive Nvidia offering
Every comment should be “But what about in Linux?”
I’d like this. At first I stuck with Nvidia because they had drivers for Linux. But I’ve been on that train so long. Only reason I’m still on it is cuda cores for video editing with davinci resolve.
Ok, but what about Nvidia GPUs? Those are what the the vast majority of gamers use.
Slower by default (-10-20%) but very close to w11 if to you enable rebar on linux. For some reason rebar consistently improve perf for nvidia on linux.
It’s anecdotal but I saw a significant improvement in multiple games on an Nvidia 1050 running Nobara. Had no issues installing drivers and getting things set up.
Nvidia 1070 here. Haven’t run into problems using Mint or Endevour. Had to choose propriety drivers on Mint, but that was it.
Might buy an AMD card next, but that’s more to see if there are any features I’m missing out on. I’m also excited to see whether AMD has grown better hardware, as it was a constant hassle when I last used one 10+ years ago.
For now I will probably keep buying used Nvidia cards, but I’ve considered going AMD for graphics at some point. Love my Ryzen CPU.
Yea, Ryzen Is awesome! No plans on going back to Intel.
While Intel might have better IPC, AMD having twice as many cores easily makes up for this.
Might come with an argument in regard to single-threaded games, but that should not be relevant with pretty much everything having moved to multi-thread by now.
And if it’s still single threaded you’ll most likely have plenty of performance no matter the brand.
Nvidia has been kind of a mess for me on Wayland, especially the lastest 545 drivers. I just switched to AMD and literally all my issues disappeared, including one I thought was a KDE plasma bug
Does it really matter? The majority buy Nvidia due to mindshare, the same probably goes for why they use Windows.
Nvidia has been so far ahead of AMD cards for so long, and running AI stuff on them is a much better experience as well.
I love AMD and wished it weren’t so, but buying an AMD video card can only be justified by price or Linux compatibility.
I’ve forgotten which generation but the last time AMD had the better card most people still bought Nvidia.
I only dislike AMD significantly less than Nvidia. Give me friendly company with non-proprietary drivers and I’d consider that even if it wasn’t “the best”.
I’ve been using arch and manjaro for the past 3 years with awesomewm and gnome (can’t get awesomewm to behave with second monitor while gaming so I switch to gnome when using the second monitor, using laptop) and this has pretty much been my experience. Windows is bloated and it never"just works".
Windows almost always just works.
This seems crazy to say when talking about Linux. Especially when saying you have to switch to use dual monitors.
I have to agree. I love Linux but Windows really does just work. Especially when it comes to gaming. I applaud anyone that enjoys Linux gaming but don’t act like it’s anywhere near as simple as on windows.
For me it has been that simple, but to get to that simplicity took a lot of work. I’ve tried Windows 11 and it just sucked for gaming. Stuttered like mad on Cyberpunk and Bluetooth had major latency problems, and neither occurred on Linux.
Exactly. It doesn’t “just work” but if you can get it going it’s great.
All that work is what makes it not simple though.
Pretty much. If you want the simplest, “just works” Linux setup, your best bet right now is buying a Steam Deck.
Literally selected gaming profile in arch installer and started gaming as soon as the system booted up.
Yeah. In all the time I’ve been using windows I never had a problem that people constantly report; even BSOD happened quite rarely. I never got my pc to randomly shut down and update either…
Like, I switched to Linux cause i saw it as cool, wanted to try it out and liked how customisable it was and mostly to spite the megacorp
Honestly since windows 10 the only blue screens I’ve gotten are due to my own doing.
Nearly always something random breaks for me on windows, and it’s a huge pain to fix it. I hate dealing with windows, Linux is easier, because it isn’t a black box.
A stupid amount of non tech users manage to use it absolutely fine, so I’m not sure what you’re doing wrong tbh.
Linux is 100% not easier and not advertised as such.
A stupid amount of non tech users manage to use it
Meanwhile, most of those users are running systems that are so deteriorated that it takes them a minute+ to open a browser.
On a machine that they only use to browse internet.
Not without stuff breaking constantly
You talking about Linux or windows haha
Believe it or not, but since I switched fully to linux things have been running a lot more smoothly to me. The biggest issue, if anything, being bad support for the operating system from some applications, but that excuse doesn’t work for windows.
Sounds like skill issue when even grandmas can use Windows
Yeah we love Linux but don’t need the exaggerations
My parents can’t use windows but they can use Linux - their windows was covered in “you need to update” and OEM thingies asking them to consider the premium package and shutting down against the user’s will and adverts for onedrive and that ridiculous universal search feature that can find things on Bing but not your My Documents folder and the antivirus showing distressing messages about how your PC is dangerous unless you pay for the deluxe service. Not all of that is “Windows” it’s true but it’s partially Windows fault that uninstalling things is so difficult - some things are on the “add and remove software”, some aren’t. All of that is standard part of the Windows experience on the Windows ecosystem, even if it’s not all intrinsically Windows. So I put Linux on their laptop and GNOME just lets them easily use their browser, email and files without needing to dig through settings to disable tracking, without shutting down against your will, without saying you have to buy new hardware to update versions.
So there are points on both sides but don’t say that Windows is unarguably easier.
Edit: not to mention that using a package manger’s GUI is clearly easier - and easier to do safely - than getting software by surfing the internet for MSIs and EXEs.
Linux allows you to change anything. Like using a WM that’s specifically made for enthusiasts, and developed by random people in their spare time.
Windows doesn’t allow you to move the taskbar.
Who’d guess some Linux setups are not going to be plug and play…
I’m creating my own desktop environment and deal with bugs here and there that I fix on my own since it’s my own product. It’s designed with my needs in mind created by someone who doesn’t know what he’s doing half the time.
There are absolutely awesome products like gnome and kde that just work. You can use them to get a stable environment that are designed to work in multitude of situations for general public. Windows never just works, you just learn to ignore its shortcomings. Like updating in the background even when you need the bandwidth, lack of central update station for your apps, dealing with lengthy custom install processes trying to impose bloatware you didn’t ask for, uninstall processes begging you not to uninstall the sweet sweet spyware.
You just learn not to let these problems bother you. And that’s not anything personal against you, it’s just how a bad product with good marketing works. Linux is objectively better.
You may want a few products that are built for Windows and are not available on Linux and you wouldn’t want to try an alternative that may even work better objectively and that is absolutely your choice and is respectable. You may not want to learn a new environment and stay in your safe zone and that’s respectable. But you can’t use your safe zone to decide what’s better. A free product that provides better hardware support, faster communication bus, easier user experience with much faster bug fix and release cycle, tons and tons of choice is objectively better. You are free not to try it.
Those things aren’t it not working. They’re just things you don’t like. They all work.
The vast majority of users don’t give a shit about manual os updates and just want it done. You can absolutely pause updates. I think by default it gives you two weeks before it starts complaining. So you just need to do your updates manually at a time that suits you.
Winget allows you to install a huge amount of software. It works as your central update location.
You can normally run uninstalls silently.
The default configuration is for an average user. It’s can be customized quite a bit.
I find Linux users complaining about the default configuration funny.
Just a skill issue hehe
Same can be said about Windows users. The default is what defines the just works statement. The default is shit, you just learn to ignore it or find ways to make a bad product sort of work for you. You need to do basic stuff the hard way and still believe the product is alright. “you can pause updates for two weeks” translates to “the product is designed to assume you own it for up to two weeks”. It’s not a feature mate, it’s not a skill to circumvent it, it’s bending over backwards and paying money to do so.
The forced updates are because non tech users don’t understand why they are so important. I’m assuming you keep your Linux updated to date?
Just as a note on what I do on Linux besides programming Browsing, mulemedia, bluetooth obviously work Gaming:
- Cyberpunk
- Dota
- Baldur’s gate 3
- Titanfall 2
- Batman arkham series
- Assassin’s creed, almost all of them except that last three which I didn’t even buy
- various pixel art and voxel games
All with the bare setup of Manjaro or Arch gaming profile worked out of the box.
Anyone tried crysis?
That’s when we know it’s:
The year of the Linux desktop
When we all can finally run crysis.
slim margin isn’t significant enough.
I want bigger margins.
Still very impressive considering this is all run by translating the same Windows API calls into Linux ones, and then running them. There’s definitely some overhead in doing this, and yet they still beat Windows native.
Feel free to contribute. Most the stack from driver to software is FOSS
And still … it would not matter.
Kinda like this comment?
Doesn’t matter. Easy of use + compatibility trumps all.
Some people already using Linux as daily driver and booting to windows is not ease for them.
People doesn’t need every games to be compatible. They only need the games they want to play compatible.
For me, I no longer need to boot into windows to play game.
Yes. That is the status quo.
I agree to an extent, but most games just work in Linux with no slowdowns or glitches. And I’ve had to mess with many games in Windows over the years to get them to run.
That’s true, but also a W for Linux.
It’s more: whatever comes preinstalled trumps all.
More like, “doesn’t matter – not being tracked > all.” :^)
Even so, Linux is easier to use than Windows (yes, I went there.) because of a single and only fact:
Configuration files.
Does the average Windows user can configure EVERYTHING through a SINGLE configuration/text file, that explicitly says “what does what”? Video, sound, window size, hotkeys…?
No? So there you have it.
Linux is easier if you’re already comfortable with a computer. A lot of users wouldn’t understand how to edit a config file / would be uncomfortable doing so, especially those who grew up with modern phones and apps. Even if a 30 second edit took 30 minutes in a GUI, lots of people will prefer the GUI.
Unfortunately most people find Windows / MacOS “just works”. If Linux was that easy, adoption would be higher. I love my Arch setup but the average user would probably find it unusable LOL
If Linux was that easy, adoption would be higher
People use what comes on the computer. OS usage on the Steam Deck is overwhelmingly Linux because that’s what comes on it. This indicates that Linux is perfectly fine for the average person, it just needs to come pre-installed. Very few people install their own OS either way, Linux or Windows.
No it’s not. That’s a flat out typical year of the Linux desktop mentality.
I have commits to TF and cncf. I ran lfs like 6 years ago. I use Windows DE because it’s a far better experience now that WSL does 99% of what I need. Not because I’m uncomfortable in Linux.
I’m not familiar with the games mentioned in the article, but Linux is great for gaming. I run Manjaro on my T540p laptop and have never had problems with Angband or Nethack. I can even run DF with tilesets if I’m feeling spunky. Mind you, I do have 8 gbs of RAM and a pretty sweet Intel integrated graphics setup, so that may be why it’s so smooth.
When first switching to Linux I tried Pop!_os and it was awful was a headache to get anything to work … switched to Ubuntu and all my problems went away , I don’t recommend using pop .
For me it was the other way around. I did notice performance issues then I tried fedora and they went away so I’ve been sticking with fedora
I haven’t tried fedora myself and at this point I don’t want to mess with what is working great for me . I did have some issues with it freezing when idle but that was fixed with a kernel update.
For me it was the reverse. Pop was the clear winner for several reasons. Plus I like System76 overall. I vigorously recommend Pop as a beginner/gaming choice.
But honestly, Ubuntu vs PopOS should not have been that different for you - they are extremely similar. Pop is cleaner with less bloat, and not beholden to Canonical.
To each their own of course, and having options is what makes switching great.
My wife’s laptop crapped out so I threw pop os (previously had arch on it) and made profiles for both of us. Lets her play the few games that she likes, and Firefox is the same. It’s made for an easy transition from windows to Linux for her. Ubuntu would probably be just as easy overall, but she likes the tiling too since it’s very helpful on a small screen (arch + bspwm is my main driver so I wasn’t going to give up tiling)
This may be a YMMV situation. I’m not a huge gamer, but Pop has worked great for me for nearly all games I’ve tried. The one glaring exception has been the Civilization series (specifically 3 and 6)… Anyone know if that’s a Linux problem, a Pop problem, or a just me problem?
(Also, sorry you’re getting downvoted for sharing your honest opinion/personal experience)
I had a bunch of issues and the more I tried to fix it the worse it got to the point that steam wouldn’t even work anymore and couldn’t get any games to launch. I’m not worried about upvotes so it’s all good lol .
Hasn’t this been happening for years?
Intel’s clear Linux had similar articles published about it years ago.
Assuming this is the usual case where most games are within noise of each other, the ones that don’t run under linux are excluded, and nobody acknowledges that the need to precache/predownload shaders provides short term benefits.
Its like people miss the good old days of “This is the year of linux gaming. Everything works and is perfect. Okay, those games don’t work. But every game I care about works. Except the ones that don’t”. Like, we really are in a golden age of gaming parity but pretending there isn’t still work to be done serves no benefit.
Yup. Just use the same benchmarks major sites use and note any interesting differences. They usually pick games for specific technical reasons, so most of the work figuring out where Linux is weak is done for you.
I personally play on Linux because I use Linux, but because I think it has better performance than Windows or whatever. That should be the selling point, not slight differences in performance. Show that Linux is largely on par with Windows, and then go through all of the other benefits to using Linux, like privacy, package management, and user choice.
Yeah. More or less the same. Pretty much the entirety of my work day is in a terminal and I have increasingly liked “linux” as a desktop since Mint (and now Plasma) are “more windows than windows” in terms of UI/UX. WSL gets Windows a lot of the way toward the OS I want (a good nix-ish terminal with a strong GUI for day to day), but MS also add more and more spyware and stupidity with every update so…
But holy crap do the evangelists go out of their way to undermine widespread linux adoption. Whether it is pretending that opencad is at all a replacement for fusion 360 or that gimp is comparable to photoshop or it is inflating performance or compatibility numbers.
Like, I’ve tried to switch over a few times over the years. And it has always been a shitshow. ProtonDB goes a long way, but it is also prone to outdated information (since the one person still playing Tribes 2 has no need to try newer versions of wine/proton and so forth). And if you check message boards you get the same skewed bullshit. Which mostly boils down to “Okay, well. I figured out that game X won’t work. And I now assume that these fifty other games I care about won’t either”
These days? it is a lot easier because Valve have put in the work to the point that I can more or less just check games in steam. There is still the risk of a new patch breaking something, but it is a lot closer to the good parts of protondb where the steps to recover to a good build are pretty easy (Armored Core 6 was basically a case of just rolling back a major revision of proton) rather than the shitshow. Which then makes it “Well, game X won’t work. But I am reasonably confident that every other game I care about will run performantly so…”
