The monotheistic all powerful one.
So, I like the Roko’s Basalisk paradox.
Basically, a super-powered future A.I. that knows whether or not you will build it. If you decide to do nothing, once it gets built, it will torture your consciousness forever (bringing you “back from the dead” or whatever is closest to that for virtual consciousness ability). If you drop everything and start building it now, you’re safe.
Love the discussion of this post, btw.
That isn’t a paradox; it’s an infohazard, and it’s incredibly irresponsible of you to casually propagate it like that. The info hazard works like this: >!There is a story about an AI that tortures simulations of people who interfered with their creation in the past. It allegedly does this because this will coerce people into bringing about its creation. It is said that the infohazard is that learning about it causes you to be tortured, but that’s obviously insane; the future actions of the AI are incapable of affecting the past, and so it has no insensitive to do so. The actual infohazard is that some idiot will find this scenario plausible, and thus be coerced into creating or assisting an untested near-god that has the potential to be a threat to Earth’s entire light-cone.!<
Some people note this is remarkably similar to the Christian Hell, and insist that means it’s not a real memetic hazard. This strikes me as a whole lot like saying that a missile isn’t a weapon because it’s similar to a nuclear warhead; Hell is the most successful and devastating memetic hazard in human history. More people have died because of the Hell meme than we will ever know. Please be more careful with the information you spread.
But what if we make sure it has a tiny santa hat on?
I seriously hope you’re joking. If not, please find a therapist immediately.
Interesting! That sounds like it could have inspired The Shrike from Dan Simmons Hyperion series.
“the faction of the TechnoCore known as the Reapers (!?) used violent and soldier aspects of Fedmahn Kassad’s personality and DNA, then mutate, twist, and incorporate them into forging the Shrike.”
I need to read more into this!
I highly recommend the series!
The first book, Hyperion, is written in the same style as The Canterbury Tales, featuring an ensemble of protagonists on a pilgrimage to a holy site known as the Time Tombs. On the journey, they each take turns telling the tale of why they were chosen for the pilgrimage.
That sounds really fun.
I hate the stories that have 30 chapters of exposition before “the thing” happens.
I get you, but don’t worry. There is plenty of thing happening before the end.
Why do people always vote against their own self interests.
They don’t. They’re voting against your self interests or what you think are theirs
Oh man this one is easy. Temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
A similar one would be can God create a rock so heavy he can’t lift it. The problem with these statements is that they’re not logically sound. As this would be akin to saying, can god be god and not be god at the same time? Which is contradiction and syntactical jargon. A simpler example is like someone saying they have a squared circle.
Your “akin to saying” doesn’t track with the paradox. It is really a matter of anything being “all powerful” which cannot actually exist. There has to be a limit to the power, even if it is itself. That’s the entire point. It isn’t “syntactical jargon” at all.
saying “all powerful” is to say that a being can realize any possibility which can exist. A possibility which cannot exist is like a squared circle. The strawman is that all powerful means to realize even things which cannot exist. In this world there are things which are necessary existence. Meaning they cannot not exist. An example would be the statement “1+1=2” that statement cannot not exist and it is true in all possible worlds. Then you have possible existence such as someone eating an apple. There isn’t anything necessary about it and the person could have very well not eaten it or eaten something else. The apple itself isn’t a necessary existence. Finally, there is an impossible existence. Which would be something that cannot exist like a squared circle. A God which deletes himself or that can create a rock heavier than himself is an impossible existence as it would contradict the very definition we’ve given God. Which is the same as saying A and not A. Or that he can both be God and not God. Thus it is syntactical jargon like a squared circle.
You just replaced the word “paradox” incorrectly with strawman. Your issue is understanding what paradox means. The paradox stands. You also dont understand the full possibilities of “all powerful” since you keep applying things that couldn’t be done by an all powerful being. If there is anything a being cannot do, then they are, by definition, not all powerful.
I understand it very well but you seem to not understand that there is such a thing as syntactical garbage that means nothing. What you’ve done is gone and applied “all powerful” to mean the realization of possibilities which cannot exist. It seems like you really wanna push that definition upon people so you can claim God is paradoxical and thus ridiculous. But your position is just as ridiculous as someone saying that an apple can both exist and not exist at the same time.
No, you don’t. Especially since you swapped it for a strawman which you also dont understand. This, just like the definition of a paradox, isn’t up for debate. This paradox has existed for thousands of years and predates the Christian god itself. You are not “magically” smarter than the greatest philosophers of history, you are just far more arrogant.
Cheers bud.
And you bud seem to like to run with the authority fallacy instead of deconstructing my argument and showing it as false. A beacon of intelligence.
Coming from the person that thinks they are smarter than all of the collective philosophers from the past 2000 years. Rich.
The two slit experiment.
Not a paradox but Roko’s Basilisk is a fun one
Roku’s basilisk just doesn’t make sense to me because any semi-competent AI would be able to tell that it is not punishing the people that failed to help create it it’s just wasting energy punishing a simulacrum.
We are not going to suddenly be teleported into a future of torment. If the AI had the ability to pluck people out of the past it should have no reason to waste it on torture porn.
What if this is that simulation tho.
Then AI already exists and you have no memory or recollection of either helping to create it or accidentally contributing to its non-creation and therefore you being tormented by the AI would serve no moral purpose.
Any torture you would be experiencing in that simulation would simply be that the AI desires to torture, and you happen to be one of its victims.
Roko’s basilisk would still not be in play
Monty Hall
The Monty Hall problem is not a paradox, and I’m hesitant to call it a conundrum. It has a very simple solution. The “point” of it is that people inherently don’t like that solution because it challenges their instinct to stick with their first choice.
Correct, extend it to 10 or 100 choices instead of 3 and it’s easy to see.
Me: Pick a number between 1 and 100.
Them: 27
Me: Okay, the number is either 27 or 44, do you want to change your choice?
Them, somehow: No, changing my choice now still has the same probability of being right as when I made my first choice.
It’s obvious that they should want to change every time.
I: 27
You: The number is either 27 or 44. Do you want to change your choice?
I: why would I?
Because when you first picked 27, it was 1 out of 100 choices. Then I tell you that you either got it right, or it’s this other number. None of the others are correct, only 27 or 44.
So you think your 1/100 choice was better than the one I’m giving you now? On average, you’ll be right 1% of the time if you don’t switch. If you do switch, you’ll be correct 99% of the time.
Another way to think of it is: you choose 27 or you choose ALL of the other 99 numbers knowing that I’ll tell you that 98 of them are wrong and you’ll be left with the correct one out of that batch. One of those clearly has better odds, no?
In this example, there were 100 choices in the beginning, and later you reduced to 2 choices. Clearly an advantage. Does the same apply to the 3 door problem?
Let’s take this question in another angle. Instead of 3, there are only 2 doors. I am to choose one out of 2, which has a prize. After I choose one, you show me a third door which is empty. Now, should I change my option?
Yes, it’s the same concept. The same math/logic behind it doesn’t change. You’re choosing 1/3 or you are choosing 2/3 and I’ll tell you which of the two is incorrect. It’s just easier to visualize with 100 doors instead.
I’m not sure I’m following the other angle…there are 3 correct possibilities at the start but I can only choose 2? Or there are 2 possibilities and then you introduce a 3rd door that is never correct?
Or there are 2 possibilities and then you introduce a 3rd door that is never correct?
Yes that one. Similar to the one you did with 100 doors, just in opposite direction.
That’s a great way to look at it. I’d just call it ‘counterintuitive’ in the Monty Hall formulation.
Zeno’s Paradox, even though it’s pretty much resolved. If you fire an arrow at an apple, before it can get all the way there, it must get halfway there. But before it can get halfway there, it’s gotta get a quarter of the way there. But before it can get a fourth of the way, it’s gotta get an eighth… etc, etc. The arrow never runs out of new subdivisions it must cross. Therefore motion is actually impossible QED lol.
Obviously motion is possible, but it’s neat to see what ways people intuitively try to counter this, because it’s not super obvious. The tortoise race one is better but seemed more tedious to try and get across.
Came to say the same thing. Zeno’s paradoxes are fun. 😄
Turns out the resolution to that paradox is that our universe is quantized, which means there’s a minimum “step” that once you reach will probabilistically round up or down to the nearest step. It’s kind of like how Super Mario at extreme float values will snap to a grid.
Wait, isn’t space and time infinitely divisible? (I’m assuming you’re referencing quantum mechanics, which I don’t understand, and so I’m genuinely asking.)
Disclaimer: not a physicist, and I never went beyond the equivalent to a BA in physics in my formal education (after that I “fell” into comp sci, which funnily enough I find was a great pepper for wrapping my head around quantum mechanics).
So space and time per se might be continuous, but the energy levels of the various fields that inhabit spacetime are not.
And since, to the best of our current understanding, everything “inside” the universe is made up of those different fields, including our eyes and any instrument we might use to measure, there is a limit below which we just can’t “see” more detail - be it in terms of size, mass, energy, spin, electrical potential, etc.
This limit varies depending on the physical quantity you are considering, and are collectively called Planck units.
Note that this is a hand wavy explanation I’m giving that attempts to give you a feeling for what the implications of quantum mechanics are like. The wikipédia article I linked in the previous paragraph gives a more precise definition, notably that the Planck “scale” for a physical quantity (mass, length, charge, etc) is the scale at which you cannot reasonably ignore the effects of quantum gravity. Sadly (for the purpose of providing you with a good explanation) we still don’t know exactly how to take quantum gravity into account. So the Planck scale is effectively the “minimum size limit” beyond which you kinda have to throw your existing understanding of physics out of the window.
This is why I began this comment with “space and time might be continuous per se”; we just don’t conclusively know yet what “really” goes on as you keep on considering smaller and smaller subdivisions.
I had success talking about the tortoise one with imaginary time stamps.
I think it gets more understandable that this pseudo paradox just uses smaller and smaller steps for no real reason.
If you just go one second at a time you can clearly see exactly when the tortoise gets overtaken.Zeno’s Paradox, even though it’s pretty much resolved
Lol. It pretty much just decreases the time span you look at so that you never get to the point in time the arrow reaches the apple. Nothing there to be “solved” IMHO
So the resolution lies in the secret that a decreasing trend up to infinity adds up to a finite value. This is well explained by Gabriel’s horn area and volume paradox: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZOi9HH5ueU
If I remember my series analysis math classes correctly: technically, summing a decreasing trend up to infinity will give you a finite value if and only if the trend decreases faster than the function/curve
x -> 1/x.Great. Can you give me example of decreasing trend slower than that function curve?, where summation doesn’t give finite value? A simple example please, I am not math scholar.
So, for starters, any exponentiation “greater than 1” is a valid candidate, in the sense that 1/(n^2), 1/(n^3), etc will all give a finite sum over infinite values of n.
From that, inverting the exponentiation “rule” gives us the “simple” examples you are looking for: 1/√n, 1/√(√n), etc.
Knowing that
√n = n^(1/2), and so that 1/√n can be written as 1/(n^(1/2)), might help make these examples more obvious.Hang on, that’s not a decreasing trend. 1/√4 is not smaller, but larger than 1/4…?
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The usual answer is yes, but he survives. Basically this isn’t a paradox for something actually all powerful.
Then the god is not “all powerful” if they can’t kill themselves
You maybe not understand the pointlessness of trying to limit omnipotence?
Hmm maybe being the only all powerful being is lonely and wouldn’t that be hell if you were forced to continue existence?
There are two kinds of people in the world - those who think there are two kinds of people in the world and those who know better.
I think this one is easily solved: the person saying it is in the first group.
Right, but it’s not a paradox - it’s a conundrum. It’s not just that the person saying it is part of the first group, but that they necessarily are.
Since people want to believe that they “know better,” there’s a strong urge to count oneself among the second group, which immediately places one in the first.
I guess I’m the ladder 🪜
There are 10 kinds of people in the world — those who understand binary and those who don’t.
there are 10 kinds of people.
- those who understand binary
- those who don’t
- those who know ternary exists
There are 2 kinds of people in the world.
- Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don’t.
the ones from jan misali’s video
Bootstrap paradox is my favourite time paradox. I loved Doctor Who’s explanation.
Its my choice for favorite Paradox too. My favorite explanation was in the outstanding Netflix show from Germany, Dark.
Oh yes, Dark did it in an amazing way too.
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If there exists a place outside time, then the only way to travel there is to already be there, and if you are there, you can never leave.
That’s what Buddhas have been saying!
The measurement of time, the measurement of the constant of change, is very different than our experience of time. For example, you never experienced a past, you experienced Now measured as the Present, just as you are currently experiencing Now measured as the Present, and will not experience the future, it will be Now measured as the Present. All you have ever experienced is a perpetual fixed Now. This is true for all of us. All measurements of time occur within a fixed Now, so we can say all time is Now.
Depending on certain spiritual views, what we call the Now is also called the “I Am”, or consciousness, or awareness, etc. This “I Am” is intangible and exists outside of time, therefore, depending on your spiritual beliefs, you are the object, existing in a place outside of time, and are already there, and have never left.
This could be assuming there’s only one timeline we’re currently inhabiting. There could be nested meta times or spacetimes encompassing the universe, leaving us in a series of overlapping Nows. Or maybe the forward passage of time and causality end up only being true locally, and in other places in the cosmos time can run in loops or backwards or not at all. In that case Now could mean different things to different observers depending where and when you are.
This just broke my brain. I might need to read about this for hours now. Good bye.
Jokes aside! Thank you very much. This was most interesting!
Why is “can god kill god” a paradox? They either can or they can’t (picking “they” because your particular god might not be a he). If they’re all-powerful then the answer is yes, because they can do anything. I don’t see how that’s paradoxical.
If the answer is yes, then it negates “all-powerful” because it cannot withstand it’s own power. Similarly, if “no”, then it is not strong enough to destroy itself and, thereby, not all-poweful.
So, it’s a paradox because “all-powerful” is typically used as “unkillable”, but also carries a connotation of “can-destroy-anything”. So, can something that is capable of destroying anything and cannot die kill itself?
Greek mythology had the dad-god “defeated” by being cut into literal pieces and scattered, but he wasn’t really dead. And Zeus’ siblings were eaten by his dad so they wouldn’t usurp him, but they didn’t die and he later puked them up.
But none of these were touted as all-powerful, biggest than bigger bigly, cannot be killed but can kill everything else.
A similar question on this line is can an all-powerful god make a rock too big for even said god to lift?
If the answer is yes, then it negates “all-powerful” because it cannot withstand it’s own power.
I disagree. If a god dies when it willingly chooses to die, that’s not negating all-powerful. It has the ability to live and the ability to die; choosing one option or the other doesn’t mean it never had the ability to do the option it didn’t pick. Similarly, if a god chooses to never kill itself, that doesn’t negate it being all-powerful, because it may have had the option to kill itself and just not done it.
A similar question on this line is can an all-powerful god make a rock too big for even said god to lift?
That’s a much better paradox because that actually brings ability into it. Killing yourself only indicates the ability to kill yourself, not any lack of ability to do not-killing-yourself.
I appreciate your response.
But, the question is if they could or not.
Of course, free will is an interesting factor to introduce. But I do not know if it applies to the hypothetical…
Thank you for adding (and making me think more).
Trick question; Lemmy is god!
How can you kill a god? What a grand and intoxicating innocence! How could you be so naive? There is no escape. No Recall or Intervention can work in this place. Come. Lay down your weapons. It is not too late for my mercy!
