Vietnam continues to win.
sucks to be a criminal billionaire in a socialist-ish country
I don’t believe these things happen because of great work or investigations, she must have stepped on someone else’s toes or something, that’s the only way influential people go down…
You must be from VN to know that thing. That’s for real though
There’s your answer:
Her actions “not only violate the property management rights of individuals and organizations but also push SCB (Saigon Joint Stock Commercial Bank) into a state of special control; eroding people’s trust in the leadership of the Party and State,”
Is this stepping on someone’s toes? “If we don’t hold rich people accountable, people will think we don’t hold rich people accountable”.
And this scream of, we’ll make a barbaric and extreme example out them for violating our god, money, and nobody will question our resolve and ability to catch the 99.99% of those who get away with it.
What are you talking about? The money is the combined output of the workers of Vietnam. It’s people’s money, they have the right to protect it from parasites. The people’s government went after a capitalist to protect the people’s livelihood.
I don’t think the death penalty is ever right, but acting like this person wasn’t the worst type of criminal, and that the legal system didn’t enact the will of the people here is wrong.
Liars are not the worst kind of crininals, by a wide margin, and this particular type of liar was enabled by the greed of others as well as that of the state. Nobody loses “percentages of the gdp” on their own. This barbarism has nothing to do with justice and everything to do with the butchers of the state trying to save face and fulfill their promess of infinite vengeance against those who would embarrass it.
The Earth needs cleansing from the statism infection, today’s most wretched mental illness.
Not liars, criminals with tens of thousands of victims. If you don’t want the state of Vietnam to conduct executions then they need to fall out of favour with the people. This is an issue of societal values. If instead just the state felt embarrassed, then carrying out a punishment abhorred by the people would only embarrass them more.
It’s a killer state, the people will have to do what it says. Or else… The state is only embarrassed to have its deadly coercive deterrence disrespected.
The solution to that is easy, state sanctionned executions. What better way to keep tge population in line and trust your the one and only strong man they crave so much.
When rich people get affected, people go down
More of this.
Finally some good fucking news!
Now if only we could do this to blackrock execs in burgerland
Meanwhile in usa… Our very own real estate fraudster with 91 felony charges is the pick of 50% of the country to be president.
That was bizarre to type. I can’t believe this is reality.
Or the fact the other real estate fraudsters who admitted dont convict Trump of the crime we are also doing!
I can’t say nothing will happen to them as I thought, nothing would happen to Trump and here we are.
I also have a biy more respect for giving someone enough rope to hang themselves. If Trump would of been stopped before his presidency, due to all of the reason any previous candidate would of been disqualified. We wouldn’t be here either.
Or the fact the other real estate fraudsters who admitted dont convict Trump of the crime we are also doing!
I keep reading and rereading this “sentence” and I’ve come up empty. Can you clarify?
Sure! In summary the political process would of discarded Trump as a candidate before reaching office. For reference there was a politician who dropped from running because he had a weirdish yell played across the air.
Then you have Trump in office, having never divested from his companies, from day one Trump was in violation of a crime. Now here is where the rope comes into play. Trump was playing the gambit of not bring charged while in office which allowed him to believe he could keep delaying the clock.
Now due to his corruption, he has taken down the GOP, that party is slowly imploding, judges, politicians he has exposed the entire grossness of the system.
So short rope, no insurrection maybe… Long rope and it leave a wider wake of destruction. RNC downfall, GOP splitting up…
~50% of the voters*
You didn’t even mention the raping
We’re taking about the rich, it’s implied
Well its a special case because his victim wasn’t underage.
He wasn’t caught for any of those.
Trump has more felony charges than Biden has years of age
'Nam wins again.
30% of eligible voters didn’t vote in 2020 which had the highest turnout since 1900.
I read the article and I know her fraud was extensive but - anyone else feel like the death penalty for fraud is a bit over the top?
I don’t think anyone should suffer the death penalty, but I also think that there must exist some amount of generalized damage that is enough to cause surplus deaths
A death sentence is always excessive.
Fraud should be punished heavily though. Someone or several someones probably already died as a consequence of that money missing in the system. I’m not sure if a long jail sentence would be much better, with her being 67 it’s a death sentence either way.
In my opinion they ought to follow the money. It’s impossible for these amounts to just disappear or to have been used by her. It would make sense to keep her alive if there’s any chance of recovering more of that lost money. But maybe that’s the point.
Assuming we’re okay with the death penalty at all, no. As the other user said, this isn’t just “fraud”. The reason I suspect you are feeling this way is because it is hard to directly see the impact of their actions as violence against people in the same way as a murderer. But with crimes like this, which are typically given a monetary fine if that in other countries, there are potentially millions of people harmed by their actions. Their health, finances, personal and social relationships, employment, etc all may be impacted by “white collar” crimes. It can easily be argued that they deserve worse punishment (under a punishment-centric system) than murderers because of the scale of their actions. People just don’t make that connection because they’re not literally pulling a trigger.
Absolutely.
12.5 billion in fraud? Nah.
Just seemed to have no logical end point. Like stop, you’ve got yours, retire from the game before you die… Well, now she’s going to die early. That’s heavy but it’s the path she chose.
It’s not just “fraud.” She cost people’s livelihood, broke up families, and made people homeless directly through her actions. Even speaking as a marxist, banking isn’t all intangible made up stuff. There are real individuals suffering consequences, and most of them aren’t just rich people doing rich people things.
Just about the only thing I agree with for the death penalty. Everything else can be reformed or quarantined. Wealth and power are cancerous. Doesn’t matter where they are, they will never stop trying to take over, and total destruction is the only way to ensure they never get loose to wreak havoc on millions of us ever again.
Personally, I don’t think she should ever be allowed to die until she pays back her debt to society. Death is too easy.
Whether the death penalty should exist at all is a separate question, but Marxists generally recognize Engels’ conception of social murder.
When one individual inflicts bodily injury upon another such that death results, we call the deed manslaughter; when the assailant knew in advance that the injury would be fatal, we call his deed murder. But when society places hundreds of proletarians in such a position that they inevitably meet a too early and an unnatural death, one which is quite as much a death by violence as that by the sword or bullet; when it deprives thousands of the necessaries of life, places them under conditions in which they cannot live – forces them, through the strong arm of the law, to remain in such conditions until that death ensues which is the inevitable consequence – knows that these thousands of victims must perish, and yet permits these conditions to remain, its deed is murder just as surely as the deed of the single individual; disguised, malicious murder, murder against which none can defend himself, which does not seem what it is, because no man sees the murderer, because the death of the victim seems a natural one, since the offence is more one of omission than of commission. But murder it remains.
I’m usually not fond of the death penalty, but these are the kind of people it should be reserved for.
Meh, could have just as easily seized her assets and prison forever
Dead panalty is cheaper option.
iirc the death sentence is just being used as a motivation for her to return all the stuff she got from corruption and if she does it’ll be downgraded to life in prison
#victimsOfCommunism UwU
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👈
SEE! THEY’LL KILL YOU!!
Now do Trump
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Do both the genocidal candidates actually
This but unironically.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The 67-year-old chair of the real estate company Van Thinh Phat was formally charged with fraud amounting to $12.5 billion — nearly 3% of the country’s 2022 GDP.
Lan and her family established the Van Thing Phat company in 1992 after Vietnam shed its state-run economy in favor of a more market-oriented approach that was open to foreigners.
She had started out helping her mother, a Chinese businesswoman, to sell cosmetics in Ho Chi Minh City’s oldest market, according to state media Tien Phong.
Van Thinh Phat would grow to become one of Vietnam’s richest real estate firms, with projects including luxury residential buildings, offices, hotels and shopping centers.
She indirectly owned more than 90% of the bank — a charge she denied — and approved thousands of loans to “ghost companies,” according to government documents.
In November, Communist Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong, Vietnam’s top politician, said that the anti-corruption fight would “continue for the long term.”
The original article contains 621 words, the summary contains 159 words. Saved 74%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Is this what equal opportunity under the law looks like?
Vietnam, still undefeated
The French beg to differ
France lost to Vietnam though, that’s why there’s still a Vietnam and not L’Indochine Française or whatever they were gonna call it
I don’t know if this is sarcasm or if you consider six decades of being colonies as a win
I think people like her deserve to spend the rest of their lives in prison, but no crime, no matter how severe, deserves a death penalty.
Nah, make the rich afraid again. We can talk red rose pacifism once the ultrawealthy are out of the picture.
But when the death penalty is available, it’s not just the ultra wealthy who suffer. It’s far easier for the ultra wealthy to use their resources to frame someone they don’t like as a murderer or something and get that person executed. It’s even easier for the state to do that if they are corrupt enough. I’d much rather not give the state the right to sentence anyone to death at any point. Make these ultra rich criminals go to prison for the rest of their lives, make it unpardonable too.
I’d much rather not give the state the right to sentence anyone to death at any point.
Not every country has a genocidal fascist regime as a government. Viet Nam is definitely not one of those.
Can you trust it would stay that way? There is no such thing as immunity from fascism.
That’s a pretty sloppy “you’re right but i’m still right” answer. Of course that’s not going to happen, they’re communists. It’s liberal governments that end up going fascist.
USSR collapsed and looks at Russia now. Just because they are communists now doesn’t mean they won’t become fascist in the future.
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I think there are certainly crimes that deserve the death penalty (think CP type crimes). Just get those people out of society tbh, but this is just my opinion.
The only problem I have is with 100% certainly. You would have to be certain, or very very close to absolute certainty, that you have the right person who committed the crime.
Certainty is a dangerous thing when people lie out of self interest or from coercion.
If the person goes to prison for the rest of their lives, it will keep society safe from them either way. The death penalty is not making society safer.
It is a deterrent. For instance, we wouldn’t have insurrectionists working in the highest levels of government if we actually had effective laws and enforcement.
It has been found that the greatest deterrent is “likelihood of getting caught”, and not the actual penalty. Think of the war on drugs. No matter how harsh they made the consequences, the drug trade continued. It’s like this: how likely are you to return a wallet you found to a lost and found if a cop was watching you, versus if you were out in the middle of the woods when you found the wallet?
It doesn’t matter if the penalty for not returning the wallet is death. If the likelihood of you getting caught is tiny enough, you will feel less terrified of playing those odds. Or at least, the average person will.
The death penalty isn’t a deterrent if you’re certain it will never apply to you.
I think your logic is flawed. Obviously the death penalty is a serious deterrent. It’s not going to stop everybody, but it will most certainly stop many people.
I disagree that the deterrence would be significant enough to justify the death penalty. But I don’t think our disagreement matters. Even assuming what you say is true, it’s not worth the lives of the innocent people who will be found guilty and executed, in my opinion. I also think it’s a bad idea to give the government the power to kill its own citizens. So even if you are correct, I have other objections that outweigh the potential deterrence factor.
I’m just talking about deterrence, it was obvious that you were reaching tenuous conclusions based on your dislike of the death penalty.
People in maximum security prisons can, and do, escape. Sometimes the commit more violent crimes once they escape. A malicious governor can, in most states, pardon any person they want, and there’s no legal recourse. (In my state, the governor does not have the legal power to pardon a person until they’ve served at least 6 (?) years, and have been recommended by the parole board.)
On the other hand, people don’t get raised from the dead, no one gets resurrected, and there’s no reincarnation. Dead is dead, and is as safe to society as is possible.
The death penalty is certainly over-used, and applied in cases where it’s not likely necessary, but I absolutely, 100% believe that people like e.g., Gary Ridgeway should be executed as quickly as is possible.
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That’s an interesting interpretation.
Yes, I think that Roger Stone should be executed, so that if Trump is re-elected he can’t pardon him.
I vote that all statists should get the bullet.
The risk of me getting wrongfully convicted of something and getting a death sentence is higher than the chance of some dangerous murder escaping prison and hurting me.
Unfortunately being absolutely 100% certain is not a luxury we have in the majority of cases. People are framed, new evidence comes up, things like lie detectors and blood splatter analysis turn out to be junk science. Life in prison can get overturned and corrected if mistakes were made, death can’t.
I think that you can make it much, much more difficult to get a wrongful conviction in a case that’s eligible for the death penalty though. I think that, for starters, all interactions with police should require video and audio, so that suspects can’t be coercively questioned for 16 hours without an attorney before signing a “confession”. I think any claimed evidence should have to have standards that were published, peer-reviewed, and repeatable before they could use it. And I think that crimes eligible for an imposed death penalty should have to take place over a period of time, rather than a single event. E.g., a robbery/murder shouldn’t get the death penalty, but (per an earlier comment I made) a serial child rapist should. I would even say that you should be absolutely required to have forensic evidence in order to get a death penalty conviction; I believe that most exonerations were for convictions that relied on witness testimony, official misconduct, and coerced confessions, usually combined with an overworked and ineffective defense attorney.
I dunno; even the possibility of someone like Ed Kemper ever getting out–like if he ever tells the parole board that he thinks he’s finally safe–is terrifying.
Point about escaping/pardon. I acknowledge that society is ever so slightly safer when exceptionally dangerous criminals are executed.
About the risk of being pardoned by a malicious state, it’s true… But the other way could also be true that a malicious state can execute people who don’t deserve to be executed, like Snowden… Perhaps a compromise is to make particularly heinous crimes unpardonable? That would be a decent alternative to the death penalty, and it would be very difficult to repeal such a law.
As for escaping prison, it’s already rare that someone escapes from it. The solution is making better high security prisons for the most violent and dangerous criminals. I think it’s definitely possible to make escaping so difficult and dangerous that it wouldn’t be a problem. Make a prison on an island or an old oil rig, implants to track the prisoner’s location (a fancier version of the anti-theft tags in clothing stores), random X-rays to check they don’t have anything hidden in their bodies. All of these are definitely better than executing someone, though personally I think that maximum security prison breaks are already so rare it wouldn’t be worth it.
Remember that people did escape from Alcatraz. And Devil’s Island, IIRC. Never underestimate the ingenuity of prisoners that really, really don’t want to be prisoners.
I think that the death penalty should be used in extremely limited cases, cases where there’s not even a shadow of a doubt about guilt, and where the person has committed multiple heinous crimes spanning a period of time (say, >1 year). So a simple mass murderer wouldn’t be eligible, but a serial child rapist would be. You’d also need to have forensic evidence that at a minimum cleared the Daubert standard, and you’d have to exclude forensic evidence that relied on standards that hadn’t been published and peer-reviewed. So DNA and fingerprints would be in, but forensic bite impression analysis would be very definitely out.
I think the evidentiary bar should be extremely high for death penalty cases. I think that it’s currently mostly applied to people that don’t have enough money to get better legal counsel.
I would also say that convicted people should be able to request the death penalty rather than life without parole. I can’t speak for anyone else, but if I had the choice between decades in prison, or being summarily executed, I’d take execution.
Yes, people do escape, but it’s extremely rare. I’m far more worried about the state having the legal power to execute someone than an individual escaping from prison.
Also, giving the prisoner the choice to either be executed or imprisoned for life would give an incentive for the operators of the prisons to treat their prisoners even worse so prisoners would choose to be executed.
