I know they’ve always been on Lemmy, but it seems like the past few weeks it’s slowly increasing, making me want to just stay on beehaw /local. Showing up on more communities, even on instances that ban that type of trolling explicitly.
Anyone else notice this?
Note: When I’m saying Tankie here, I’m not referring to far leftists, socialists, anti-capitalists, etc. I’m talking about trolls that act leftist but their actual intent is to cause infighting and support authoritarian regimes. Sealioning, all that stuff.
/r/all was a fucking nightmare on reddit, and I don’t think the equivalent here is that much better either, if I’m being honest.
I find that life is more pleasant when I stick to local and/or my subscriptions, block the communities I’m not interested in, and filter out whatever remains.
Personally, I do not get scrolling through /all … pretty much the opposite of what social media is about as far as I’m concerned. Explore for new things etc, sure. But that only makes sense occasionally. Treating as a main feed just seems insane to me.
It doesn’t make sense to me to put yourself in a corner where you only ever see people who think like you. It seems counter to services that provide connections between people across the globe.
I guess different strokes for different folks :)
I want connections across the globe that add something to my day, if I wanted random BS then I’d turn on the TV.
If you think that only things that you understand and are comfortable with will add to your day… you’re free to think that :)
But I don’t see things that make me think or challenge my worldview on all. It’s just pages and pages of pointless memes.
If I want that, I have to seek it out in specific communities, which I then subscribe to.
Like I said, explore all you want to find new things. But treating /all like a feed to the point that you get concerned about what shows up on there, especially on the fediverse, seems like a poor choice.
It’s not just about echo chambers. Please break out of echo chambers (though it’s ironic that this comes up under this patent post). But it’s social media, finding your people or the ones that push your boundaries is the point, building communities in those spaces, contributing and helping and creating good vibes. Not tuning into the chaos tv of the firehose and then getting upset at some antagonistic politics.
If there’s a real moderation issue to consider here, act on it, find the accounts, bring receipts and work together. But this thread/post just seems silly and inflammatory to me … my communities are doing just fine, I’d bet whatever trolls were seen were in the sorts of communities you’d expect.
People are allowed to point out issues in things, no offense intended. I’m not going to sit and pretend nothing is going on and let the equivalent of a nazi bar form silently.
The trolls are on very large instances, and have continued to have accounts, despite reports, as well as rules against that behavior in those large instances, some of those trolls being community moderators on large instances. Not all of them are from the ones you’d expect, quite the opposite. I’m not pointing out names specifically for the reason of not stirring drama. Reports have already been made, to both those instances admins again, as well as Beehaw directly, with receipts to let them all figure it out how they feel best to do so for the community. Now is just discussion about the overall issue in a community that’s intended for discussion of topics that don’t fit anywhere else.
There isn’t any harm in not being silent on an issue that Lemmy notoriously has had very blatantly since its inception. This is a process that happens every time these groups stray outside of their usual areas.
All good … I’m personally very happy for you to have this chat FWIW. If I came as someone trying to shut down a conversation, I apologise. It wasn’t my intent. I was replying to a comment about /all which resonated with me so I thought I’d add my thoughts.
And if my tone comes off as too negative/harsh … I can see that too.
Otherwise, as far as my personal general motivations are concerned (again, FWIW) … I’m just not sure about this concern over trolls. Yes they’re here, as well as a number of blatently rude people. IMO, a cultural issue that the fediverse can suffer from is context-free drama and rumour milling. Thus my call to actually acting on moderation issues with evidence and cooperation etc. I’m not saying you’re engaging in that sort of behaviour, but this post did seem to me to be heading in that direction (thus my comments).
For me, the issue is that constantly looking out for the “bad people” decays into insubstantial fear mongering and purity policing and eventually “balkanising”. For the simple reason, IMO, that it’s an addictive behaviour with a built in positive feedback loop from the engagement it tends to procure. Within that sort of dynamic, accuracy gets lost, rumours are milled, echo chambers built and a generally unpleasant community may ensue. On the other hand, organising others, collecting information, setting up communities and infrastructure, is likely to do more good and has a built in negative feedback loop from being unrewarding work such that those who persistently do it tend to really care about it (for better or worse depending on the person and cause). Maybe one is better at warding off nazi bars than the other, but I think both are capable and that the relevant factor there is how sensitive one is to “disliked” opinions, which is a valid sensitivity to be had but also an interesting dynamic in how people can disagree on how to form these spaces.
I hope that doesn’t come off as me trying to lecture you (I’d presume none of this is something you haven’t heard before) … just sharing my general background perspective on this if it’s relevant or anything.
That’s fair, I appreciate the insight on it. It tends to be a complicated issue so I don’t think there’s really any right answer to it, all the ways of trying to solving it have huge pros and cons. Guess we do really just have to trust that all of our instance admins are on-top of this stuff at the end of the day
Well, moderation can be a problem too on the fediverse, right? As instances get bigger, the scaling makes moderation harder … or at least it seems that way. That’s where the call for small instances comes in … as it enables more localised moderation across the board. And I personally think that makes a lot of sense. But it’s also unworkable for any open platform/fediverse, IMO, as people tend to aggregate and the instances dynamic just doesn’t work for many (eg BlueSky is full of people that just hated the instances experience on mastodon, which IME can get more toxic than anything happening here, as, I believe, communities help with that sort of thing).
Point being (sorry, clearly I’m ranty) entirely trusting admins isn’t something I’d subscribe to either. I’ve recently pushed off from engaging on the communities on a particular instance on finding out that the mods/admins there likely suck (if you know, you probably know).
If I’d offer any attempts at helping solve the problem … I’d probably say be rules based, be clear and open about intentions and policies, all along the way, to the point of self-examination, trust that a system is better than no system but that they also have to be organic and get strength from cooperative feedback across the system especially when done in line with the other ideas.
Sorry … ranty … it was in my fingertips.
Good chat! All the best!!
I agree, but at the same time, I think a lot of people are still trying to build out their subscribed communities list here - especially because a lot of would-be communities are fragmented across multiple instances. Outside of just stumbling across communities you like because they’ve been mentioned in a comment section, or checking out communities that links have been crossposted to, looking at the all feed is the best way to discover things, I think - unfortunate though it is.
To be honest, I’d love to see a “weighted all” feed, if that’s even possible. So include everything, but let the user set custom weights for communities, so ones you weight highly show up more often (and nearer the top) and once you weight lower show up less often. There are some communities that I only really see if I look at my subscriptions because they don’t tend to show up in the all feed much. And there are some communities - a lot of meme ones, for instance - that I’ve blocked because they were clogging up the all feed; if I could just weight them lower so if still see them but far less often, I would do that instead of blocking them.