seen this post elsewhere? click for explanation
This post got banned from !memes@lemmy.world for reason “Troll Posting” which is Very Disrespectful in my opinion. 😕
I mean this meme with full respect and love to my fellow community members and I was proud of the discussion and support it was creating.
EDIT: POST RESTORED YAY. (Thank you to the mods it turned out to be a misunderstanding.)
Important clarification/FAQ: I am not calling to coddle or excuse the behavior of bigoted men in any way!
I am calling to be kind and understanding to young men (often ages 10-20) who are very manipulable and succeptible to the massive anti feminist propaganda machine. Hope this clarifies that very important distinction. :)
click this dropdown for comments that are very helpful and illustrate key points!
- Detailed summary of the situation if you’re wondering what’s going on
- The rhetorical value of the bear hypothetical and what this means for you
- What does disenfranchisement mean in this context?
- The importance of not asking women to tone down their expressions of fear and frustration
- The importance of participation in kindness toward young men, specifically outside the context of people speaking their experiences
Look, everyone knows you catch more flies with honey and all of that, but you are kind of conflating a lot of issues here. When it comes to the Internet, there is a very serious right wing problem. There are groups who run around trying to drive wedges into communities and sowing dissent wherever possible. It is deliberate action, not some friendly disagreement or differing opinions. When these people come out and say things like “women are just as bad as men“ anytime sexual violence is brought up, which is categorically untrue, there has to be pushback or these ridiculous notions get normalized and internalized.
Somebody comes to me curious to learn more, or just seems to have a flawed notion of something, I will generally have a gentler approach. But that is not what is happening on these threads that you are probably responding to with this meme.
White men get to go on cable news and YouTube etc and scream and rant about all the conspiracies they are afraid of every day. About how trans people are destroying their country. How all women lie about sexual assault and men are the actual victims not women. No one bats an eye, this is normal. But some women support a meme about how they don’t feel safe around men, using a bear as a kind of humorous example to make it stickier, and everyone loses their Women. Why do you feel this way?” They immediately make it their mission to prove them wrong because to open up this issue and discuss it would be to admit there’s a problem that needs to be addressed. And that just does not work for some people.
Also, a lot of communities remove posts for a lot of reasons. It is not disrespectful that they removed your post and complaining elsewhere about it is not productive. No one is out to get you, you probably violated the rules of a community. Rules you didn’t look at very closely.
The best part of this metaphor is that it’s incorrect. You catch more flies with vinegar than honey.
I did not know that and that is actually kind of funny lol
Rotten fruit smells of vinegar and they’re attracted to that that’s why. If you want to get rid of fruit flies (It happens, no need to be ashamed) the usual trick is a glass of diluted vinegar with some soap added to lower the surface tension so the flies can’t Jesus all over it.
Bees and wasps and stuff, though, you can catch a lot of those with honey.
AKA mostly Russian trolls pushing for division and ultimately civil war, and CCP trolls doing their thing, depending on the issue.
In addition to radicalized Americans, usually men, yes.
Absolutely agree. Please do this :)
What I’m trying to say is your meme is bundling in those responses with “stop pushing back against right wing shit bags.” They don’t need to be coddled. They need a firm “no.” There’s actually a lot of my response that you kind of didn’t respond to - I’m guessing you wrote this meme partially as a reaction to the “I would rather come across a bear than a man in the woods” meme right? It’s too mean and blaming? Or am I missing the mark here?
I guess what I would like to see is clarification on why you wrote this
See my other comments for a very full and nuanced explanation. I didn’t respond to your comment in full because there is a level of accusation that I don’t have the emotional bandwidth for right now. Example:
This is you forcing words I would never say in my mouth. Please be kind and mindful of what you are doing to me. I don’t want to be an ass and block you but this is incredibly mean.
My actual position: Push back hard against right wing shit bags. At the same time, be mindful that very young men, often age 10-20, are still malleable and incredibly succeptible to the right wing antifeminist propaganda machine, and we have the opportunity to do better than last generation by getting those children on our side. Fuck fascist misogynist pigs though and never coddle them.
I hope this doesn’t come off too mean, it is just very tiring to be ~ told what I believe ~ by people who might ordinarily agree with me.
I did not say you said that. I’m saying a lot of stuff is bundled implicitly because we don’t know what spurred your post and we don’t know who you’re talking to, it’s very broad and it - whether intentionally or not - tells everyone to stop. Which is why I asked for clarification on what spurred this on. I’m not going to go poking around the thread looking for every response that you wrote to piece together your point and I didn’t accuse you of malice. Clearly your intentions are good and I thought you wanted a discussion. But you’re now getting heated with me when you are the one who created this whole post and subsequent threads in the first place as you say “I don’t have the emotional bandwidth for this discussion.” I mean honestly why did you do this then? What did you expect would happen? It was clearly a grenade from the get-go.
Edit (rewrote this to make more sense): I mean ultimately this post is shaming people man. That’s the framework. You’re saying “stop being mean to misunderstood and confused men,” which feels reductionist and like you’re saying we are the problem, not the people saying and doing heinous things online and beyond. Again, because you’re being very broad. I am all for compassionate approaches and educating but this post isn’t that dialed in or nuanced. And using Pepe - a major right wing symbol unfortunately because some folks don’t know this and the creator sure didn’t intend it - muddies the water as well.
Hey. Other commenters in this post are getting my point just fine. I am sorry that you refuse to read their comments, but that is a decision you made, not me. I don’t owe you a personalized breakdown of every misconception you are having the moment you bring it to the table, nor does anyone else, especially if you refuse to peruse a few threads.
That said, I hope other commenters who have more time than me can help you out. For my part this conversation between us is over.