seen this post elsewhere? click for explanation

This post got banned from !memes@lemmy.world for reason “Troll Posting” which is Very Disrespectful in my opinion. 😕

I mean this meme with full respect and love to my fellow community members and I was proud of the discussion and support it was creating.

EDIT: POST RESTORED YAY. (Thank you to the mods it turned out to be a misunderstanding.)

Important clarification/FAQ: I am not calling to coddle or excuse the behavior of bigoted men in any way!

I am calling to be kind and understanding to young men (often ages 10-20) who are very manipulable and succeptible to the massive anti feminist propaganda machine. Hope this clarifies that very important distinction. :)

click this dropdown for comments that are very helpful and illustrate key points!
  • barsoap@lemm.ee
    0·
    2 months ago

    Women are told to shut their mouth and keep their opinions to themselves all the fucking time.

    I think right about now would be a good time to check your privilege. People overall are told that all the time, yet somehow women still by and large have shoulders to cry on, places to complain where they’re heard. Wait, no, crying on shoulders, complaining, again, that would be pathetic for men never mind.

    • Sop@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      0·
      2 months ago

      Facts don’t care about your feelings bro

      • 91% of SA victims are women, 99% of perpetrators are men;
      • women in the EU work 70 hours per week on average vs men who work 63 hour per week (this includes paid and unpaid work, women do about 3 times as much unpaid work as men)
      • number of women in the US who face workplace discrimination is 3 times higher than men
      • women politicians in the US face 3.4 times as much threats and harassment than men
      • car seats are only tested on male dummies resulting in women being 73% more likely to get seriously injured by a car crash
      • most medicines are only tested on male animals and or humans, resulting in lower efficacy among women and causing medicines that would be beneficial to women to go undiscovered

      Once again I recommend reading the book invisible women for more interesting statistics, and an analysis on gender specific data. It turns out that gender specific data is very hard to come by, making a lot of potential other gender gaps undiscovered. Women are much more likely than men to be victims of gender specific data gaps because women were not allowed to work for a long time and women still make up only a small fraction of executives making many women specific problems to stay undiscovered.

      • barsoap@lemm.ee
        0·
        2 months ago

        I now could start a big list starting with men being four times more likely to commit suicide than women. But I won’t, because I assume you’re aware of all those gendered inequalities affecting men just as I was aware of every single one of the bullet points you mentioned.

        Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat.

        • Hillary Clinton, 1998
          • barsoap@lemm.ee
            0·
            2 months ago

            We weren’t talking about workplace discrimination, either. Or car seats. Or medicine. Or work hours. Those are real issues brought up in addition which I readily acknowledged and made no attempt at dismissing, nor did I spent more breath on a single male issue than any single one of the female issues got.

            We were talking about people’s experiences and pain getting silenced, and how none of it should get ignored. I suggest making that “if” into a “when” and lead by example.

            • bolexforsoup@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              0·
              2 months ago

              This entire post is a reaction to a post about how unsafe women feel. Suicide among men is a very serious issue that should not be used as a cudgel to shout down or otherwise diminish the seriousness of other causes. Talking about the challenges women face doesn’t diminish the seriousness of men committing suicide at higher rates. Stop it.

              By your logic, I should say “stop talking about men committing suicide when trans people commit suicide at a higher rate.“ Does that seem right to you? I sure hope not.

              • barsoap@lemm.ee
                0·
                2 months ago

                This entire post is a reaction to a post about how unsafe women feel.

                This entire post is about nuance in discussing that reaction. I quote from OP’s image:

                The disenfranchisement and antagonization of young men leading to alt-right extremism is a real problem that can be addressed by being thoughtful of what methods of rhetoric are employed.

                By your logic, I should say “stop talking about men committing suicide when trans people commit suicide at a higher rate.“ Does that seem right to you? I sure hope not.

                First off, I never said that any of the issues should not be talked about, I said that none should get ignored.

                Then, that’s actually an interesting intersection. Do you happen to have any data on whether the same disparity is present or not in trans folks, ideally distinguishing between pre- and post-transition?

                My off the cuff hypothesis would be low to no statistical significance pre-transition as transphobia and general psychological turmoil is an overwhelming factor, and a definitely significant but lower disparity post-transition on account of selection bias towards resiliency as well as good self-knowledge and self-actualisation being a protecting factor.

    • bolexforsoup@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      0·
      2 months ago

      Toxic masculinity exists. Women are also told to “remember their place” and act a certain way. Both are true.

      Work too much? Doesn’t take care of her family. Full time mom? Doesn’t have a real job. Asserts herself at work? Bossy and bitchy. Asks for assistance with her family? Bad mom. Black and asks for assistance with her family? Welfare Queen.

      Have you ever asked yourself why people only bring up male victims when we are talking about female victims? It’s like people who talk about homeless veterans whenever people advocate for the homeless writ large. The moment the discussion about the homeless fades away, those veteran homeless have served their purpose. As a cudgel to stop others from receiving help. We see this over and over again across all sorts of issues and demographics.

      • barsoap@lemm.ee
        0·
        2 months ago

        I mean yes I could have used the term “toxic masculinity” but men not steeped deeply in feminist theory tend to react badly to it, and self-identified feminists (usually also not quite firm in theory) getting called out for engaging in it tend to react even worse. And I already used quite a lot of budget on the privilege check, so, yeah, better avoid that one.

        • bolexforsoup@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          0·
          2 months ago

          In 2024 the bar is still too low. Many men deny we need feminism at all, despite the fact that it benefits everyone. Gender roles and expectations are generally bad for everyone. Advocating for women generally is advocacy for men as well.

          • barsoap@lemm.ee
            0·
            2 months ago

            (btw did you see my edit to your edit)

            Advocating for women generally is advocacy for men as well.

            In theory, yes. In practice you get self-avowed feminists reinforcing the patriarchy, hence why I did the privilege checking.

              • barsoap@lemm.ee
                0·
                2 months ago

                I replied to that purported bogeyman directly. Called out what you correctly identified as toxic masculinity.