I have given up trying to find a girlfriend. Even though, I am outgoing, have hobbies (I dance, which is actually filled with women), go to parties, talk to plenty of women. But I keep hearing the same thing over and over again: “I am just not so into skinny guys.”
I think this is fair from the woman’s perspective. I for one am only motivated to date attractive women. So, them not wanting to settle for less actually makes very good sense to me. There is absolutely no hate or bitterness regarding that. Fuck all that: ‘all women are whores’-noise.
That being said, I think I should just consider myself celibate by virtue of my own standards. But now bitterness is starting to take hold of me. Bitterness about my life and to me as a person. As I said I am very outgoing and don’t want to become the cynical asshole around my friends.
So how do I stop this?
Edit: I go to the gym on a regular basis.
“celibate by virtue of my own standards” … I was not aware I belonged to a club which viral acronym does not exist yet
I think that might be volcel? as in voluntary celibate?
Well, is not like I can really chose what I “like” (my standards) beyond a certain point, most of mine at least are not a rational decision, I do not feel like I can really force me into tastes…
How about Stancels? We are celibate due to our standards?
“Choosy beggars”.
Well, it sounds like you’re going after women out if your league because you think they’re attractive and that’s a valid choice. But it is a choice you’re making. It sounds like you could have intimacy if you lowered your standards or increased you attractiveness (gym etc). Or you could abandon dating to not have to face rejections.
So I think the key to avoid bitterness is to reevaluate if the choice you are making still works for you if it brings up bitterness. Then you can either stay with your choice or switch, if you don’t think any other option brings less negative feelings.
And if you choose the best option for you, there’s no need for bitterness.
I’m not into skinny guys
That seems way easier to fix than “I’m not so into fat fucks.” Just eat more and stop going to the gym.
You have no idea how much skinny guys hear this haha. I’m sure you mean well by it but at the end of the day you’re making light of what is a struggle for a lot of people.
With that being said, if the financials are there then yeah OP should be building some muscle. I personally needed to be on 3000 calories a day to gain any weight at all. But I swear gaining 20 pounds (8 or 9 kgs) turned my dating life around unbelievably fast.
Thats way harder than eating less? Like one is literally less work and the other is extra work.
Market price set with supply and demand.
If you are getting zero hits, you need to adjust the price. This is game 101.
Or stay single but I don’t get that angle but that is a strategy as any other.
I just don’t feel motivated to date people I do not find physically attractive. Even if they do have a very nice or interesting personality, I would rather then just be friends with them. So yes, I think I would in fact rather stay single.
If that’s your motivation then you are going to be very very disappointed when those looks fade and you get bored.
I’m not sure you age but from what I understand, many people between 20-40 have been having issues finding genuine relationships and “situationships” are on the rise. I know several people that claim to be happy having 2-3 half commited partners (whom often also have other partners), but i don’t believe they are that happy, especially compared to a genuine relationship.
As others had said try to just stick to your own personallity and focus on your own happiness, changing yourself or your standards just to get laid often doesn’t work. When i was going through a phase of depression i started seeing a partner whom couldn’t commit to me the way i desired, but i stuck around anyway because it was a nice distraction from my life. A few months later we called it offand there was a fair amount of emotional pain. The relationship was kinda of toxic as well and I’ll probably carry scars from it into my next one. Even just the memories, good or bad, are constant distraction some times. My overall point is don’t commit to it if its not what you genuinely want, good relationships have been on the decline for a while so its not always your fault if you can’t establish one.
Building on a sibling comment about loving yourself. I only got there in 2019. My world changed when I achieved this. Therapy was how I got there. It took many years. Find a therapist you trust. It might not be the first one. My average (across decades) is one that I trust for every two that I meet (one relocation and one therapist retired, so three total that I trust). I never thought I’d become who I am and I’m eternally grateful for the outcome.
Is your region particularly conservative?
I’ve heard more right-leaning people associate largeness with masculinity. Being in a blue state, I hear a lot of women talk about liking skinny guys.
But then again, the same people who say that can find bigger guys they like too. Sooo size probably isn’t the main factor here.
I am 6’ 6" and most of my life I’ve been between 145 to 165. So incredibly skinny, always under weight. I never struggled with women as an adult, but I also didn’t chase too many shallow women. When I was young i certainly got told by a few that they weren’t into skinny guys, but it was almost always by people that were incredibly socially controlled people, the type to “keep up with the Joneses” so to speak. Once I stopped chasing after people for the wrong reasons things improved dramatically.
Do you have close friends that are women? I wonder if there is a communication aspect to this if not. Do you date outside your culture? I grew up around mostly white rural Christians and they were more judgy about being skinny than other cultural groups, in my experience. Maybe something about rural people doing a lot more hard labor and it being culturally homogeneous.
You have the stats of one of the most attractive skinny guys I’ve been with. I was also way skinny at that point in my life (5’9" 115lb - I am 150 now at midlife and people seem to see even this as thin somehow, I don’t understand it), which made things a little awkward but I really think very tall and skinny is one of the ideal body types for a man, and you are so tall I think most women would perceive you as ‘bigger than them’ even if you are close in mass.
Also the best lover I ever had was a guy a couple inches shorter than me and whip lean and not even socially ‘normal’. Husband now is my height, strong as fuck and padded, and like OP seems to fear being ‘skinny’, as a lady this is an almost incomprehensible fear, I have feared being fat always but skinny is fine.
Yeah I’m only 10 lbs more than my wife and she is 5’ tall. I was the last in a long line of tall, usually thin, men for her. It’s definitely a type for some.
I don’t believe that most women don’t like skinny guys. That’s likely just BS. I have no idea what kind of girls OP is asking out. Maybe he’s asking the super hot biddy girls who only wanna date bros from the jersey shore? No idea. But that just doesn’t seem accurate. Perhaps the girls really have another reason and are trying to come up with an excuse. I have no idea.
OP, if you wanna put on a little muscle mass without getting super into weight lifting, just do pushups/planks/other easy shit every day whenever you have a free minute. Merely doing that will add some muscle definition and make you appear a bit less skinny. You’ll notice some obvious results after a few months. You don’t have to go ham into weight lifting, unless you want to.
Also, you may have a fast metabolism OP. If so, you’ll be fucking happy when you’re older and all of your friends are fat - and you’re still skinny ;-).
Metabolism differences are negligible between people, barring some disease. OP might just be a genetic outlier in terms of being able to put on muscle mass.
You also dont need to be a gymbro to put on muscle mass, 2-3 times a week 30-60 minutes in the gym is all it takes.
https://youtu.be/cClSiXBNGa8?si=qxyWva8kRn__oTVv
This video is excellent and these exercises can be easily done in 30 minutes and will yield better results than doing random pushups during the day.
?si=qxyWva8kRn__oTVv
See this part of the link here? That’s actually a tracker by Youtube. You can omid that to make the link more privacy friendly like so:
Thanks for the recommendation by the way!
Huh? What do you mean metabolism is barely different between people? Some people are fat naturally even with a decent diet and some people are skinny af regardless of what they eat. What do you mean there is no or little difference? There is large variability in metabolism speed between people. I know multiple people who are skinny and do not put on weight regardless of diet. If I’m wrong lemme know but that’s how I see it.
https://youtube.com/shorts/Se1oaRu0Pbw?si=OEsWwQ223S9g04rv
Extending this into practical terms and assuming an average expenditure of 2000kcal a day, 68% of the population falls into the range of 1840-2160kcal daily while 96% of the population is in the range of 1680-2320kcal daily. Comparing somebody at or below the 5thpercentile with somebody at or above the 95thpercentile would yield a difference of possibly 600kcal daily, and the chance of this occurring (comparing the self to a friend) is 0.50%, assuming two completely random persons.
To give a sense of calories, 200kcal (the difference in metabolic rate in approximately half the population) is approximately equivalent to 2 tablespoons of peanut butter, a single poptart (a package of two is 400kcal) or half of a large slice of pizza. An oreo is about 70kcal, and a chocolate bar in the range of 150-270kcal depending on brand.
So a majority of people are within 3 pieces of Oreos in tems of metabolism difference and the extreme end is 9 piece of difference, but 96 % pf people are within 6 oreos of each other.
You’ve got to cast that shit out my man. Bitterness is a poison and will only turn you on yourself or others. I’m not in that situation but you have to look at things as if you haven’t met the right one yet. I won’t tell you to lower your standards but maybe consider trying to find the beauty of a person in a different light. Their intelligence, humor, mannerisms, there’s so many aspects of people to hate and appreciate.
Look at it this way, it’s hard to meet people these days. You go to parties, and find people that go to parties. You get on any dating sites? Chat rooms?
Have you tried working out and getting bigger?
I have, I go to gym about three times a week.
Going to the gym won’t make you less skinny. Eating more at a surplus will. Also 1g protein/lb of body weight per day.
How skinny are you? It might. Be your style or your taste in person you’re going after. I was very skinny but didn’t struggle and I mean 120 at 6 foot 1 skinny
I’m going to take a different approach. It’s not that the general advice on focusing internally is bad. To the contrary, it’s the best advice. But there’s other things to do as well to help mitigate what I call “serial rejection response”.
People tend to think that their attraction standards can’t change. But they do, constantly, for plenty. They change as we age, as our perspective shifts as we gain experiences, or even just by repeated exposure to other standards.
Now, I’m going to venture into some shaky territory here, so be aware that there is disagreement in published information about some of this.
There are multiple things that go into attraction. They one thing that seems universal is symmetry. The more symmetric the face and body are, the more likely people are to find it attractive. It’s a pretty objective standard too, with not much room for interpretation.
However, there’s also signs of health and viability as a possible mate. That’s where you run into the first thing that can shift. We don’t actually have a great ability to read health visually. And there’s subjectiveness inherent in what is and isn’t considered healthy, and that can change easily.
A common example of that is acne. Not everyone views is as sign of bad health, but some do. It’s also something that is more common in teen and young adult stages. When you’re younger, and everyone around you is more prone to acne, you tend to filter it out because it’s so common, we just don’t see it as a flaw in every case. And there’s gradations as to how severe acne is before an individual detects it as a negative rather than the norm.
Body build is obviously the same kind of thing. It’s a subjective, and largely subconscious, “template” that gets built up over time to filter other people into categories of “possible mate” and “nah”. But the very fact that it not only builds over time, but can change later in life as we’re exposed to more variety, means that it’s something that can be adapted to.
Now, you can actually consciously change what you’re attracted to, though it isn’t easy, and takes time. This would expand the pool of attraction to give better chances of mutual attraction.
But, once you realize that the vast majority of people don’t know it can change, and that they’re just drifting along responding to stimuli they don’t even understand, it means you don’t need to worry about it as much. It becomes a matter of patience in finding someone, or shifting closer to the local norm of what is and isn’t attractive (and there is a large degree of it that is very local, down to town size and smaller; you’ll find people at different schools in the same county having different standards as a group).
This helps remove any bitterness because, once the idea is internalized, you know that not only is it not you being unattractive at all (and everyone is attractive in some way, even if it’s very limited), it’s just not the right time and/or place. It’s a crappy hand to be dealt, but not an insurmountable one.
You’d be amazed how just moving to another town can radically change how much attraction you receive. Just changing neighborhoods can do it in decent sized cities or towns.
I promise you, plenty of girls and women like extra skinny guys, the same way plenty like dad bods, massive muscles, trim athletic builds, or chubby to obese bodies. It’s all about where and when you are. You, exactly as you are now, may find that women shift towards your body type as you age. Or you might not, but be aware that it isn’t universal or permanent inherently. A super thin guy in his twenties is running around asking out women roughly in the same age group most of the time, and that could be a grouping that’s locally only into dad bods as a majority. But they get older and change too, so you run into the ones that shift towards your type.
And, obviously, not only will your tastes change over time whether you want it or not, you could start work on finding the attractive qualities in a wider range of women. People think of this, and talk of this, as “lowering standards”, but that’s bullshit. That way of thinking assumes that any given set of standards is right solely because the person using the term thinks their standards are better. And, again, that’s bullshit.
As an example of that, if I dig thicc ladies, but have no luck with them, it isn’t lowering my standards to date someone that’s model skinny, it’s just a different standard. If I didn’t like that kind of body type, I would have to work at seeing the good parts to change the “template” in my head that says attractive or not. I’m lucky in that I’ve never really had a type, but I do have greater or lesser attraction to different types. I have successfully changed that over time though, multiple times, partially just to see if I could.
Seriously, do a little thought experiment here. Find someone you don’t find attractive that’s with someone. Ask yourself what they see in them. Then look for it, because I promise you it’s there. They’re using their internal template, probably without thinking, and found a match to it. Once you start realizing that there are things in people you aren’t attracted to that are attractive anyway, you start to look at looks in a new way.
This is getting long, so I won’t bore you with anecdotes about my own life and how this works. But I will end with something to think about. Ever know an old couple? The kind that sum still kiss and hug, and make googoo eyes at each other, call each other beautiful and handsome. They exist. And they are attracted to each other, and likely always have been despite the fact that neither of them would have been attracted to the other fifty years prior.
Remember that, and you never need be bitter.
What do your woman friends say?
I never asked them to “rate” my looks. If that’s what you mean.
I think they mean to ask for honest feedback, it’s quite possible your lack of success is linked to the mindset you have. Expecting to fail us one of the most common reasons to fail, but knowing that success requires a lot of failure is a much healthier approach.
Have you you tried therapy to work through some of these issues? It’s helped me quite a lot
I think they mean to ask for honest feedback, it’s quite possible your lack of success is linked to the mindset you have.
Oh I see. That’s actually not a bad idea. I’ll try and ask them.
Yeah, that’s what I meant. Ask the women in your life for advice.
“I’m not so into skinny guys” sounds like an excuse, if you are getting it a lot I think there is something else going on here, not all women even have a type and some surely like skinny guys, some of the hottest men I’ve been with were so skinny, it can be a very attractive look on a man.
Since you say it’s your own standards, what do you mean? Do you think you are sort of batting out of your league looks-wise? You are already dancing so your body is probably in good shape, is there anything else that makes you think you are not physically attractive? May I ask how old you are?
You are outgoing and social, perhaps try practicing flirting? Like, without trying to take it any further?
Do you think you are sort of batting out of your league looks-wise?
Yes, definitely.
is there anything else that makes you think you are not physically attractive?
My arms and legs are particularly skinny, like Ballerina level skinny.
May I ask how old you are?
I am 24 years old
You are outgoing and social, perhaps try practicing flirting?
I find flirting difficult. Because I never want to make it obvious and I don’t know if that’s a good thing or not.
You’re very young to have decided that a partner will never happen for you.
The very best thing you can do is socialize without expectation of partnership and learn to have fun and enjoy flirting with people without the intention of following through. When you can get with a bunch of friends, laugh and flirt and go home alone and feel good about it, like appreciate the joy inherent in those moments without ruining it by pining for more… you will be doing yourself two favors.
One, you’ll stop feeling like not dating is celibacy - it’s just where you’re at.
Two, you’ll become much more attractive to potential partners, and you’ll find folks won’t care so much about your looks. The vibe will be way different, for real, because of the self-confidence inherent in enjoying your life without needing anything from anyone else.
Bonus - You might find, by flirting with people you have no intention of sleeping with, that your tastes expand. Just don’t tell a woman you’re not following through because she doesn’t meet your physical standards, that will get you in a dating blacklist in no time.
Your last statement stands out to me. Have you considered that it’s the way you interact with whoever you’re interested in? Rather than your looks? Are you nervous, self-conscious, whatever? I’m asking because you keep insisting that your interested in individuals out of your league. That thought would make me nervous. And on the flip side self-consciousness or awkwardness or nervousness or whatever is not very attractive. Socially it’s more acceptable to rejected someone based on looks though.
Have you considered that it’s the way you interact with whoever you’re interested in?
Are you nervous, self-conscious, whatever?
I honestly have never thought of it in great detail. But where would I be able to get feedback on this?
Any trusted friend who’s been around to witness you meeting new people should be able to tell you.
‘I never want to make it obvious’
This is a huge red flag to women, what you’re essentially doing is trying to create a power imbalance where you maintain the safe and defended position of acting not interested while they take all the social risk of putting themselves out there. This gives you a much better position in any conversation or disagreement and it allows you to hold the power of humiliation over their head - a situation no one wants to be in.
The fact you’re targeting women in this way that you feel are more attractive than you exacerbates it because it makes it seem that you don’t really care about them at all and just want to tick the hot gf box.
People often say that women hit on men in happy relationships and this is somewhat true but not because they’re horny homewreckers but because the guy has stopped acting creepy and manipulative towards them and just seem like decent normal people. When you say you don’t flirt what you mean is difficult to tell because you’re obviously targeting these women and talking to them, even asking them out and getting rejected apparently so I don’t know what you’re actually doing but it’s not acting normal, friendly, and like you consider them anything but a target to throw your Pokeball at.
No one, including you, wants to date someone that doesn’t make them feel good and add to their lives in a positive and joyful way - in what world does ‘you’re hotter than me therefore I want you as a possession I can have sex with’ make someone feel any of those things? That’s the vibe they’re getting when you refuse to give them even just flirting, who is going to say ‘oh i met this guy, he’s cold to me and makes me kinda feel awkward I can’t wait to spend more time with him’
Make someone feel good, enjoy spending time with you, and demonstrate that you’re the sort of person worth getting to know better - which by the way includes being open to self change and personal improvement. Let them see that they will be happier in a relationship with you than not being in a relationship with you.
And this means also that you have to find someone that will be happier in a relationship with you, women aren’t interchangeable and they exist on a much more complex scale than ‘hot body = value’ which is where your head seems to be stuck, looks are one of the least important parts of a relationship which is lucky for a skinny ballet arms boy like you… you need someone you can talk to, can laugh with, can feel safe with, can grow and explore with.
And yes if you don’t want that sort of relationship and want a woman that only cares about outward appearance then get jacked and earn a shit load of money, seems like a miserable life to me but I’m in love with a fat woman (who I admit is very attractive) because we understand each other and support each other and enjoy each other in ways I never even knew possible - we bonded over shared interests, fell in love over long and tender conversations, and worked through difficulties by being honest and caring.
No one, including you, wants to date someone that doesn’t make them feel good and add to their lives in a positive and joyful way - in what world does ‘you’re hotter than me therefore I want you as a possession I can have sex with’ make someone feel any of those things?
What I meant was I don’t make it obvious not because I want to make them feel unloved or something but to prevent making them feel uncomfortable. I talk and treat everyone like we’re just friends (because for the most part we just are). If the woman from her end shows she’s interested in me than I try and go along with it.
But I am here to learn, so could you then please tell me how do you properly flirt with someone then?
This helps. First, I think work on your own self confidence. A dancer’s build is an ideal body type for a whole bunch of people. If you feel like more definition in your arms would help YOU (I don’t think it’s the sticking point looks wise but might help you see your own hotness), do push ups, and weighted squats and lunges will help with the dancing, skinny is the easiest body type to get into shape, such a small adjustment.
On the flirting, yes obvious is good, and funny, remember you are just practicing here and enjoy yourself. Subtle is likely to be missed.
On your actual question, I am older so have been through dry spells and remember feeling frustrated way more than bitter. Build a good life you enjoy, and it may be attractive to others, or perhaps not, but either way you will have a good time. I don’t mean there aren’t external forces, but your own attitude and actions are what you have the most control over.