Ironically Republican presidents are the worst for the economy, https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/democrats/2024/10/the-u-s-economy-performs-better-under-democratic-presidents
They forgot the most important thing: Lead poisoning
I would assume the answer to your question is “this data sucks”
Why is there such an obsession with immigration?
Do you want to pick strawberries? It’s back-breaking and sucks.
This was what the UK discovered after Brexit
Turns out, if you kick out all the polish nurses and restaurant workers, you suddenly don’t have enough staff in those places. Who would have thought.
Other than that, everything worked out perfectly. Oh, but then there’s also the Northern Ireland border. Well other than those two issues… actually, there are quite a few issues, but that’s besides the point. It’s been smooth sailing ever since, everyone is happy, it’s never been better.
The obsession is because that’s the news friendly way of answering with “racism”.
Why? Because the right was harping on it. So the news covers it. And then “people are talking about it.” And in 2024, that means everyone has to have an opinion it. The right has perfected the weaponization of communication. Fascists are good at that, historically.
So why was Harris’ answer to adopt a strong anti-immigration stance?
Everything the right was harping on about was a lie, but the Dems response was to amplify those lies and say “We hear you and will crack down on illegal immigration,” fully knowing there was nothing to crack down on.
Because, like I said, it suddenly became “the most important issue” and she was courting the “centrist swing voter” that doesn’t exist anymore. And we all saw, republicans voted almost exactly the same way they did in 2020, but a bunch of dems stayed home. She sold out anyone left of Bush Jr. and then surprise pikachu’d when no one fuckin voted for her.
They’re convenient scapegoats that can’t defend themselves. “Look, it’s a witch! Burn it”
If you need a scapegoat, you pick one that can’t defend itself as easy.
Pretty weird that this tactic still works. It really shows how uneducated the masses are, and they’re about to become even less educated.
This is by design.
Sure, the unborn work for that too.
I just wonder what is so scary about immigrants to people?
Well they’re all lazy criminal welfare queens who are also taking all of our jobs somehow, don’t you read the right wing propag- I mean, news?
They’re different, even if they’re very similar. The important part is that they look different, too, because if you talked about all the white immigrants taking the white-collar jobs people would have to actually think beyond just a face-value assessment. Brown is bad is a lot easier than person over there could be anything so I need to talk to them and form even a basic relationship with them to figure out what’s going on and by then I might not be able to hate them so absolutely.
Being different is scary enough for those that lack education (either willingly or due to circumstances out of their control)
This is America, and they aren’t white. They don’t speak white.
No, I don’t think you understand it fully. That’s what the legal minorities and children are for. Ask rural folk over 60 if they had a job as a child and you’ll got a Lt of answers like “I worked picking tomatoes when I was 10.”
The rich get to go to private school, the poor get to sell their children off to robber barons. You would not believe how many parents out there are eager for this too. A good portion of the GOP are abusers that dont really care about their children and if they can force their children to go out and get a job so they can take their paychecks, they will.
That’s why they are pro-birth and anti-education. This is why we still dont have year-round schooling because “traditionalists” want to be able to make use of child labor.
If you dont think it is coming, almost every red state has attemptdd to repeal their states child labor laws for agricultural and factory work.
I admittedly can’t imagine people wanting such a thing. They really are of a different fabric it seems, hurt people hurting people. I guess all the rest of us can do is support letting people know there’s another option and helping them escape that trap if desired.
They don’t want to live like us, fostering the mind over breaking down the body. So be it, I guess.
Race stuff gets clicks and views
Never liked that argument. It’s essentially “Why, don’t you like immigration, dummy? Don’t you know immigrants are easily exploited to do hard labour cheaply?”
I’m not saying it isn’t true, especially in the west, but in my eyes, there are much more moral arguments for immigration.
Conservatives don’t care about that sort of morals. They only care about what affects them directly. Maybe that means they can’t find tomatoes or apples one day. Then they’ll blame some Democrat for the problem.
I agree that it’s low-hanging… nope. Bailing on that one.
I do think quality farm work is critical for our health as a nation, and I don’t mean economically.
Can we automate it? Maybe. Till then, someone’s gotta do it, and for those who go into it, there’s gotta be a floor on job quality, seemingly basic things like bathroom and water breaks.
Here comes the Democrats again. Complaining that their slaves are being taken away.
That was Florida in recent history, not the dems. “uhh can you latinos come back and work for us again?? no one is filling these jobs as you leave due to the recent legislative hatefest”
Conservatives don’t realize they have slaves, let alone rely on them. They pound the table about migrants while paying someone employing them to mow their lawn or renovate their house. Press them about it and they always tell you it’s none of their business how the people they contract keep the prices down.
This sounds a bit anecdotal or even hyperbolic (maybe not the Florida bit, I don’t know I don’t live there so I don’t know what’s going on there).
…pound the table about migrants…
Why is it so impossible for this side of the argument to understand that the issue is with illegal migrants taking advantage of the system? You all go so far as to say things like “there is no such thing as an illegal immigrant!”
Yes. Yes there is. By legal definition there is! And as the son of a legal immigrant, someone who has been directly involved with this system, I absolutely do take issue with this country opening the flood gates to allow skirting of the system. As do MOST legal immigrants as was shown by this election!
I was referring to illegal migrants, so your rebuttal is a bit of a straw man. This was a reference to the legislation pushed by DeSantis and the republican legislature of Florida that was targeted at undocumented workers. If you don’t understand the connection between Florida and migrant workers in the context of the past two years, I think it’s fairly safe to say that you aren’t following this issue at a national level beyond a drip feed of Fox News or similar.
The point is that most Americans are too obtuse and/or callous to recognize the role of undocumented workers in their own economy. You were fast to say the dems see them as slaves, but the entire goddamn economy uses them for cheap labor. My mother is as wound up about border crossings and caravans as it gets but still pays someone to have Hispanic men who can’t understand her mowing her lawn. They’re not “her” undocumented workers.
Apparently I can’t curse at you & your low energy understanding of the world, last comment removed.
I stand by what I said before, I believe all workers should be paid fairly, have access to things like bathrooms & water, and be able to easily come and go as they need & desire.
Try getting better nutrition, it’ll help with your energy problem.
As I mentioned below. I know more about this issue first hand and gone through more than you probably ever will in your life.
Low energy. Son, you would have crumbled if you had to grow up the way I did.
Fuckin’ glad I’m not your son, my dad was a real man who actually put the work in to help me become a caring and effective man, not watch me founder and mentally shrivel.
I mean look at your comment. No shame, in spite of the supposed first hand experience. I feel for you, and for this country we both call home. Your crops, or your neighbors crops, may very well rot in the field while ripe, until the factory farm decides nearby decided to pay pennies on the dollar and take your land from you.
All legal, all what we progressives didn’t want. You’ll understand after 4 years of further hardship in your community. Competition and a free market are good, if they are fair.
Typical. Don’t care about the actual struggles of us “brown people”. “Just shut up and be my prop! I’ve got a political statement to make!”
Sorry your slaves are being taken from you.
Missing the point, dumb.
We need food, the jobs were available and I want people doing the work to have rights too. I don’t want to pick strawberries. I will gladly pay someone to get some for me, if the price is right.
Are you a “brown person”? I guess I am as well.
Thinking back to the one debate he had with Harris, Trump blathered nonstop about immigration. He talks about it like a wave of moorish invaders sweeping across the land, pillaging. This is obviously a powerful Image if you can get people to believe it. And in some areas people have been feeling like American culture is giving way to Mexican culture as the population in their home towns shifts, so Trump’s rhetoric taps into something that was already there. And if we’re honest, border policy is a weird zone where many of the laws don’t make intuitive sense. America talks out of both sides of its mouth on the issue, historically. A lot of people are here illegally whom we depend on utterly to staff our economy. So their presence is in some way sanctioned, tolerated, but not fully legitimized in law. When someone comes along and articulates one clear direction on immigration, it sounds like someone is speaking clearly for the first time. Even if that direction is stupid, hateful, xenophobic, and economically unviable.
I hear what you’re saying. What boring people to be afraid of novel cultures.
Anyway, fine, close the border and make it so only US citizens can do all the labor nobody wants to do. Watch how much doesn’t get done; the economics behind work and such don’t change rapidly. I’ll bet most small farmers get destroyed with fields full of rotting, previously ready to harvest crops because nobody can offer a citizen enough to do the work, in a way that still yields a profit.
The billionaires with factory farms and prison labor will likely win out again.
And the price of groceries will skyrocket 3x and everyone will say “I can’t believe Biden could do this to me”
I mean mush actually telegraphed that, “there will be some economic pain”…
The news says the Republicans are better at [the economy] because they are. How are they better. Because they are better for the economy. Who crashed the economy the last four times it’s happened Republicans. They’re so good at economy!
They’re never around for the rebound though. They leave the Democrats to pick up the pieces and the stupid fucks that voted for trump only see that gas was cheaper 5 years ago, so that must mean that trump’s economy was better!
Remember when gas was cheap because the entire country ground to a halt due to Trump mismanaging COVID? Those sure were the days…
Yeah, let’s not overreact today. It’s not like we were all sequestered in our homes while riots raged across the country and ash fell from the blood red sky because of out of control forest fires. Oh wait, that’s exactly what it was like!
Racism less important, immigration more important… that’s interesting…
Economy? Ah yes, let’s elect the person that wants to put 100% sanctions on literally everything. Masterful gambit sirs. Ya’ll can rot in hell!
Also side note, America’s economy is held up by cheap immigrant labor, so way to double dunk.
Wait… This chart is hard to read. This chart is … “how much more important these issues are to people as a percentage, than they were as a percentage in 2020?”
really? I must be reading this wrong
It’s just straight percent of voters I think. Then they’re sorted left to right based on how important they were in 2020.
Another thing that’s barely on the chart: Foreign Policy, some fraction of which would be the genocide.
It just wasn’t the influential issue that much of Lemmy wished it were, and clearly not the reason Harris lost.
Foreign policy isn’t important to the workers, doing political work in my local area people will sooner talk about the dog shit sproon around theyre street or litter, the closure of public toilets or the removal of public bins as they all have a noticeable and tangible effect on day to day life. Sadly Gaza isn’t a broad issue to none gazans. I’m not advocating for this behaviour btw, just pointing out what I’ve noticed and spoken about in political circles.
Remember that people who considered foreign policy (aka Gaza) to be the most important didn’t vote. People who voted Harris did so because they either thought some other issue was more important or just didn’t care. I think you’ll get better insights from a “why didn’t you vote” survey. That said it’s definitely not the only reason Harris lost; it was her complete and utter failure at campaigning that allowed Trump to go around collecting swing states like they’re fucking MTG cards.
People who voted Harris did so because they either thought some other issue was more important or just didn’t care.
Or realized that Trump would be far worse for the Palestinians than any Democrat has ever been.
People keep saying this, but misunderstand why people didn’t vote for Harris over Gaza.
It doesn’t matter if Trump is worse. People don’t want the Democrats to think this behavior is OK.
Worse maybe, but not for worse. That said that’s not really what I’m trying to say; my point is that people whose number one issue was Palestine overwhelmingly didn’t vote. Democrats went to vote despite Biden/Harris’s Israel policy, meaning they considered something else to be more important and so they wouldn’t answer this poll with “foreign policy”.
Exactly. For all the talk of the Palestine/Israel genocide being a reason people didn’t vote Harris, this poll certainly makes it seem like less of the issue. What the fuck happened? I’m genuinely ashamed to live in the States.
What the fuck happened?
Four years of a milquetoast, centrist Democrat telling the American people what they’re living isn’t the actual reality of the situation. Biden’s admin kept rolling out the “soft landing, economy is doing great,” schtick despite numerous news outlets reporting Americans don’t feel like it’s an economy working for them.
Then that Democrat finally stepping aside, too late for his constituents to have a say in who they want representing them. And then she ran on a centrist, return-to-the-status-quo platform that didn’t inspire the majority of Americans, who are so apathetic based on decades of being ignored by politicians they just don’t vote. Because what’s the point?
99.9% of US voters wouldn’t even be there if it wasn’t for genocide
Also, I love how no one gives a shit about the ecological apocalypse. This is why I kept telling you guys: let the hurricanes destroy everything. No more FEMA. Americans clearly don’t care.
I think we have to accept that the American electorate actually wants fascism.
Let’s give them leftist fascism and see how they react.
They elected the candidate backed by Russia, which is still the shining beacon of a global superpower for the Tankies out there. So I guess Trump is a perfectly fine representative of fascism, left or right.
Leftist fascism is called communism.
Leftist fascism is called fascism, because the term leftist doesn’t actually mean anything but fascism and communism do.
It’s more that Harris did such a terrible job that even the other side being literal Hitler didn’t save her.
Bro, in don’t care how bad Harris is/was. If you prefer trump to her, it’s on you.
As always, mathematically not voting is equivalent to voting for the winner, since it’s a vote that didn’t change the result. So yeah. The above statement rings true.
As easy as it is to blame voters, the American electorate didn’t want fascism. That’s just false. Harris dug her own grave by actively discouraging voters who didn’t want fascism. This electorate is the same one that elected Biden in 2020 and (mostly) the same one that elected Obama in 2008 and 2012. They just wanted a real candidate and Harris wasn’t that.
It’s mind boggling…
Because democracy and the basic rule of law will be fine.
He’s literally said that people “won’t have to worry about voting” once he’s in power. Sounds like a direct threat to democracy, no?
I doubt that. Source?
Seriously? Where the fuck have you been? Let me guess, you just voted for trumpler.
Im an aussie mate. Im here to ask questions and whatch the worlds greatest reality tv show. Ohh and apply critical thinking from an outside perspective.
Okay, I apologize. We’re all a little emotional over here right now.
Yeah i can see that. We where sitting at the pub taking bets on electoral college for who had to buy next round of drinks.
My understanding of the context of that was he is talking about was getting the Christians out to vote “just this time” then they wont have to do it again. Doesnt sounds like authoritarian rule sounds like asking a group of people to make the effort just this once.
ah, the old “that’s not what he meant” schtick.
U can make anyone sound like a nazi by taking 4 words they said out of context.
been the default response from all maga supporters since the beginning.
And why wouldn’t they have to vote again in 4 years, as outlined in the Constitution of the United States of America? Put your thinking cap on, and think really hard about it before you answer.
Edit: you just let me know in another comment that you’re Australian, not American, so I apologize for coming across so harshly.
At some point it becomes impossible to tell what is something Trump really believes and might actually do versus what is just blowing smoke, blatant lying, a thing that contradicts another thing he said, or something he forgot he said.
America just elected a convicted felon. The shit you just wrote is demonstrably a fucking lie.
That reminds me, isn’t his sentencing coming up in a couple of weeks?
He can pardon himself now lol
The sentencing happens before he has any power.
Plus, any state charges can’t be pardoned by a president.
Not anymore, it isn’t.
(I’d love to be proven wrong.)
If u think democracy is in such threat how much u willing to bet trump wont step down in 4 years?
Trump won’t even be alive in 4 years. He looks like he’s knocking on heaven’s door right now. We’re going to have Vance the Couch Fucker as president.
Heavens door thats pushing it?
I think vance is just playing an excellent political game. If u read his wikepedia he is actually quite progressive on many things.
I didn’t say they’d let him in.
I think vance is just playing an excellent political game. If u read his wikepedia he is actually quite progressive on many things.
That is the most extraordinary bit of copium I’ve ever read in my life.
I dont need ur copium. Im half way around the globe enjoying my socialised healthcare and bullet free schools.
The fuck are you talking about? You’re the one who said it, not me.
racism should be represented across the board
I love how Economy is a high priority, yet they voted for the asshole known being the genius behind several bankruptcies. “The economy isn’t doing good, clearly we need someone who can fuck shit up to make it work!”
The American electorate:
Unironically, I think that was the thought process.
Hard to vote for someone who is telling you all is well and the people that got the country here are competent and mean well, when the country is going through 5 different crises, all preventing you from living a decent life.
Exactly. Harris was tasked with defending and indefensible record. It’s that simple.
She didn’t have to defend it. This was an election to run over Biden until he was just a pile of goo. She could have came out with some strong contrasting policies, instead she gave some great sound bytes for Trump.
It was such an easy lay-up to fumble. Hell, she raised millions in personal donations compared to a Trump campaign that ended up stiffing locations on payment because they’re so broke, it was the rare election where the Dems didn’t need their corporate donors. They could have accepted some long-term financial losses in the face of potential greater long-term gains if they could maintain similar levels of personal donations from energized progressives. I remember the energy in the air when Harris/Walz was revealed, it seemed like a progressive ticket could seriously exist.
And then it all vanished. Thanks for taking my $20, assholes. Wouldn’t have bothered if I knew they’d just dance to their owners demands anyway.
Fumbling what should have been a cupcake question to talk about a major campaign promise is inexcusable.
