Someone who has been president before, for four years, was elected president again.
I cannot think of anything less similar to a “point of no return”.
You may think of him or his policies what you want (I personally have a mostly negative opinion of him too!), but we have all had four years of opportunity to observe what he does when he is president.
If you are thinking that Trump is like Hitler, then please point me to anything similar to:
- a Capitol Fire Decree of 2017 that says several parts of the Bill of Rights are suspended until further notice
- an Enabling Act of 2017 that gives the president full power to make law including law that violates the constitution
- laws on the Coordination of the States with the Federation of 2017 or a Law on the Reconstruction of the Federation of 2018 giving the federal government full legislative and executive power over the states
- a Law Against the Formation of Parties of 2017 declaring that the Republican Party was the only political party in the US and anyone attempting to form another party would be imprisoned
- a Law on the Abolition of the Senate of 2018 doing exactly what the title implies
- a Law on Measures of State Self-Defense of 2018 retroactively legalizing dozens of extrajudicial killings of Trump’s political rivals
Oh, none of those things happened in the late 2010s? Then why exactly are you expecting them to happen in 2025 or 2026? What is different now?
You are giving examples in history and changing the dates to the first Trump presidency, which is somewhat confusing.
Those things certainly didn’t happen because the GOP did not have a majority in the legislature. I agree that it is unlikely that these will occur during this term as well, given that the majority in the house will be very small, but I assure you there will be bills passed that will continue to strip away power from the legislature and grant those powers to the executive. There will also be interpretations of the law that will disenfranchise the citizens and/or will have repercussions for years to come.
LegalEagle gives a pretty good rundown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG_L3fLLG3c
You are giving examples in history and changing the dates to the first Trump presidency, which is somewhat confusing.
I was attempting to tell you when those things would have happened if Trump were doing the same things as Hitler. (It’s convenient they both became heads of government in January.)
Those things certainly didn’t happen because the GOP did not have a majority in the legislature.
what? It did. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/115th_United_States_Congress#Party_summary
I stand corrected. My memory served me incorrectly.
Nevertheless, there are more prepared now and the MAGA party holds more of the power compared to last time. It’s a bit like putting the foxes in charge of the henhouse - I suppose we’ll have to see where those that remain of the former GOP are willing to push back.
Thank you for the solid points. People are dooming way too hard, simply because their preferred candidate lost this round. There is an opportunity for Democrats to improve themselves. They had that wakeup call 8 years ago, and they didn’t take it. Hopefully they will this time and strengthen the quality of the party and the candidates. Simply being ‘not Republican’, their primary strategy, isn’t enough.
Unless there’s nuclear war, there’s no such thing as the point of no return. Just a further slide into more egregious civil rights violations. Eventually it will get better, hopefully through democratic means and not violent ones.
You don’t vote out a dictator. The only way out is through violent revolution.
Trump is the worst dictator ever, seeing as he literally got voted out last time and could do nothing about it.
Point of no return for what?
Do you mean its fall, like Rome?
No, I don’t think so at all.
I actually think we’re on the cusp of actual, true reform.
But if I’m wrong, just try to remember that millions of people lives happy, fulfilling lives, even while Rome fell around them. We will too.
You sound like a scoundrel…
“You can drown out the screams and dance if you just hustle hard enough!”
Uh, no, that’s not what I said. It’s just a fact that when empires fall, almost everyone living in it just live their lives regularly
I hope not. But I am fearful that the US electorate has not grasped yet what it threw away.
I think the real answer is that we end up kind of like the UK – going from the worlds ultra-dominant superpower to a sort of slow regression to the mean, as China, India and others take the spotlight.
When you look at what China is doing with their Belt and Road Initiative, and their move to dominate the transportation infrastructure of developing nations – the US isn’t anywhere near equipped to counter that. We’re still in a cold war mentality thinking that we will dominate as the world’s police force.
Meanwhile, all the actual economies will be run by Chinese companies operating with state support.
Sure the US may be past it’s glory days. Hell even the Rand Corporation (who write a bunch of stuff for govt leaders and other high ups) says it’s been trending downhill since some point in the early 2000s. They didn’t mention 9/11 but it seems like a good historical milestone.
Essentially the paper says the last 200 years have been an anomaly and we’re slowly sliding back to historical norms. They call it the neomedieval era and it’s not just the US.
Neo Feudalism is upon us, the frog got to comfortable in this warm water… Now it is too late.
The trend is set and reversal is not on the menu.
Best you can do is quit being poor, otherwise you gonna get progressively more fucked each year.
Why do we call it united?
Last I checked the math books, 50 is Divided.
I always did find it amusing that they are called the United States when it seems like it’s constantly teetering on brink of another civil war.
Heard that!
I’m a united individual of one, can’t help where I was born…
Would you ever allow yourself to accept that truth if so, or will you need to see actual bodies in the streets before you believe it’s over?
This isn’t something you’ll be able to determine in the moment. It will only be clear in hindsight.
People do see it, it’s not easy to see it and act, but they did. I know directly of people that gave up ownership of multiple factories and a very comfortable life in Germany in about this phase of the fascist uprising there. They left to America and Australia, split family, with what they could carry, and started back over from a very modest place. Not too long after, the worst gained momentum in Germany, nazis took over the factories and a horrible fate befell many in their community who didn’t acct when they could have.
From an outsider’s perspective, I think a lot of people think you guys sailed past the point of no return back in the 80s.
9/11
You mean the 1780s, right?
Reagan, he is the starting point of everything: the tax cut from 73% to 28%. USA never got back on track after this.
Nope. Johnson.
No, not that one.
Andrew Johnson.
So many ways it could have been better.
He could have punished the Southern Aristocracy for starting the civil war. He could have ensured that the evil that led us there was exterminated forever.
Failing that, they could have actually removed him via impeachment instead of falling just short. That would have at least established forever that the presidency is not some sacred “unimpeachable” office.
But Raygun did a great break dancing set in the Olympics.
Remember when the entire world was convinced there was absolutely no way Bush, an idiot, fascist, religion bigot, etc could get re-elected?
Nobody thought that at all. Most presidents sitting during outbreaks of war retain their positions. You’d have to have been in a complete echo chamber to believe this stance. The moment 9/11 happened, it solidified Bush’s Second term in stone.
I assume you mean Jr. Because Sr wasn’t the moron that Jr was.
Yeah no, I’m gonna disagree. Being outside of the US at the time, most people did think that. And yes, obviously I’m talking about Jr since Sr didn’t get re-elected. 9/11 was a full three years before the election of his second term.
It was viewed as illegitimate inside the US too. And yeah, I remember, even as a 17yr old at the time, seeing the event happen live and lamenting to my mother that we were going to have another Bush term over it. Historically for America that’s always been the case.
It was viewed as illegitimate inside the US too.
You’re recollection of events is clearly skewed. Something like 80% of the population approved of it at first. Meanwhile there were protests in the millions of people around the world against it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_opinion_in_the_United_States_on_the_invasion_of_Iraq
A Gallup poll made on behalf of CNN and USA Today concluded that 79% of Americans thought the Iraq War was justified, with or without conclusive evidence of illegal weapons.
You should read your own link, because it also mentions that by the end of his term, most disapproved. By 2006 it was viewed as illegitimate by most. My recollection of events is fine, thanks.
America will generally approve of measures when they are led to believe it affects their security and safety. It’s the years afterwards that determine if it continues to hold support.
You should read your own link, because it also mentions that by the end of his term, most disapproved
I clearly stated “at first”.
It’s so fucking disgusting to be honest… I’m just a worthless dumb shit uneducated factory worker and at 17 I could see right through that garbage… We’re a hateful group of people whether we care to admit it or not, there was a lot of anti-islamic/Muslim/Arab sentiment in the US at thst time. People were bloodthirsty.
I was going to join the military after highschool to get training since I’m poor and had no real direction to gamble on college, and then take it from there whether to stay in or not. Once talk started of invading Iraq I immediately said fuccccck that. I still blame Bush partially for my current situation. :/
Nucular. 🤦
What?!
The 80s were fucked, but if you’re saying it was worse than the response to the Civil Rights movement…
McCarthyism…
Jim Crow…
Or the KKK destroying reconstruction…
Like, I could see saying that last one was the point, only if you start the clock immediately after resolving the civil war. Cause obviously a Civil War is what really happens after a point of no return. We lasted a couple years in between the two points.
For as fucked as the last 40 years has been, as far as America goes we’re beating the average on basic human decency.
What’s happening now isn’t new, it’s a slip backwards, which is unfortunately common when you try to fight fascism with moderate politics. It works for a little bit because they’re coasting off the last people who really fought. But all moderate politcs really are, is giving fascist time to regroup in the shadows like fucking Sauron.
It’s a cycle, and we live in a time when you can learn pretty much anything about history in a few minutes on Wikipedia
America can not afford for voters to stay ignorant. We need people who know what happened last time, what worked then, and what might work again. Stop acting like we live in unprecedented times, and start reading up on how fascism has been defeated historically.
Cuz we’re up, like it or not shits getting real again. And the more people know what we’re doing then better.
Yeah pretty much. We’re 2-3 generations deep into a cultural expectation that “some one else” will deal with all these problems.
The constant threat of this being “the most important election of our lives”, when the party making that argument campaigned as if the outcomes were irrelevant (because from their privileged perspective, the outcomes are irrelevant).
Back during covid a boat got turned a bit sideways in a canal and it seemed like the whole world economy was going to collapse. The system we have is actually incredibly fragile and built largely on trust, both in one another but also in institutions and systems. Not only the US, but western Europe is about to get smacked up-side the head by the 2x4 of failing to maintain a civil society (US at fault within its borders, EU at fault beyond its borders).
Could be, but we have thought that before.
You don’t understand Americans at all.
It’s like not commenting, but with more effort.
We’re here in “no stupid questions”. The OP asked a question. So if you want to offer some of your knowledge and insight - go for it. But simply telling OP “you don’t understand” isn’t really adding anything of value.
In terms of seeing more credible people take office that has an honest mind in what’s best for the country and not for themselves or their party. I say we certainly are likely past the point of no return. That wall was cracked when Reagan took presidency and then the wall was just demolished just by one Trump term.
So now we’re going to be expected to see all sorts of crazy people, just jumping at the bit, for their shot to take some sort of office, despite having had no credibly solid background of politics or understanding in managing the big office. Arnold Schwarzenegger became governor of California, Kane (wrestler) became mayor of a county, Dr.Oz is now in a political position after scarily coming close to a senate position. It’s just maddening all around.
We’ve been experiencing numerous government shutdowns or coming close to another government shutdown because all politicians collectively could not get their shit together. If we’re past the point of no return, about whether America has any credible influence and sincere posture on the rest of the world. Yes, it is the point of no return and it’ll take many generations to fix. It won’t be this one though.
Nah.
That was Reagan. You’re about 40 years late.
If you want to play that game, it was likely Nixon and the southern strategy.
But neither of those were point of no return. They were just foundational groundwork to set up this moment that likely is.
May I suggest that you give Vlad Vexler’s youtube a listen? He describes this as a period of dlweaking democracy, but explains why all is not lost.
Democracy dlweaks in darkness
Is thia Democracy in the room with us right now?
