I’m not in the US, but it seems to me that the Republicans keep breaking norms and procedures, including politicising impeachment and ignoring illegal, immoral and plain bad conduct.

They also seem to be fine with not applying the same standard across the isle.

On the other hand, either Democrats follow new precedent, with even more devolving, or they keep the old decorum and get their asses kicked by Republican foul play.

What ways out of this spiral are there?

  • LemoineFairclough@sh.itjust.works
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    6 days ago

    Something that might be useful is a general strike (see https://sh.itjust.works/post/9745322 and https://sh.itjust.works/post/31602246 also). It would be nice for more people to be unionized in preparation for that. I suspect that it would be better to start unionizing for jobs that more people have (like Personal Care Aides or people working in a retail store or fast food restaurant), since after having a union contract is more normalized it’d probably be easier for people like medical doctors or pilots or lawyers to have a union contract.

    I’m personally interested in electoral reform (see !rcv@ponder.cat and !fairvote@lemmy.ca also), such that I wouldn’t have to worry as much about coordinating with other people before I vote. However, it’s guaranteed that someone will always be dissatisfied with the results of an election that isn’t unanimous, so that might not be a complete solution. A more general solution might be to handle more things locally with voluntary organizations. Another option could be to generally devolve power to local institutions (like to a state government or municipality) or to create more independent institutions that are directly accountable to the government of the United States but can act autonomously (like the Federal Reserve System) so that less is dependent on the Congress or the President, and then to reduce the authority of more powerful institutions. If some states withdrew or were expelled from the United States of America that might help (since the power of an expelled state and a post-expulsion United States of America would naturally be more local, and the power of each would also affect less territory).

    • Brainsploosh@lemmy.worldOP
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      5 days ago

      I like your suggestions and I think they’d go a long way towards preventing the current situation to spontaneously happen again.

      But I don’t think I see a path toward it until someone consolidates power to then create stability enough for these types of policies to be approachable.

      I can’t see neither Florida nor the Senate voting (anytime soon) for anything like that decentralisation of power.

  • some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org
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    6 days ago

    Emigration or civil war, I’d wager. My home country will be a fascist state during my lifetime, as I’ve been saying for about three to four years.

  • hperrin@lemmy.ca
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    6 days ago

    The only way I see out of it is not a way I like or am willing to talk about online. Let’s just say the second amendment is making more and more sense every day.

  • humanspiral@lemmy.ca
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    7 days ago

    Do you hate Russia and China? How about Iran, North Korean, Cuba and Venezuela? If yes, then politics funding warmongering are certain to prevail. Past US military budgets + interest on those deficits are sufficient to account for all US debt. Trusting the government and media telling you who to hate, keeps them elected. Netanyahu telling you Iran is the US’s enemy, or Iraq has WMDs, is why you hate them and support war.

    The DNC can’t save you if they love Netanyahu just as much as the GOP candidate, because the GOP won’t try to balance pandering to anti-genociders. Trump has no qualms in Kent State-ing university anti-genocide protesters. He is better for Netanyahu, and then the Zionist single issue lobby that determines election results.

    Your tolerance for war is your tolerance for politicians that will give you war. Progressives for war do not get much progressive stuff done. Though oligarchist bribery money rains when they are close to a majority to get some small stuff done.

    UBI is path out of the spiral. UBI redistribute power not wealth, and prosperity grows significantly to the benefit of everyone including the rich. War becomes unpopular because we could all just have more cash instead. Nationalist “war preparation”/tariffs unpopular because we could have cheaper stuff instead.

  • ExtraordinaryJoe@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    I have no idea, but I think something will have to happen that affects the majority of Americans. Another sustained Depression for example. Republicans will have to crash and burn the country down before their voters will turn on them. They have to experience pain for themselves, for they have no empathy for others. They say they do, but they cannot. They say they are Christian, but turn their back on what they say his teachings are. I’m fed up and scared at the same time. I hit retirement age in less than 10 years. Social security won’t be there for me. I did a terrible job of saving, I spent most of my paychecks on frivolous things like bills, rent, and food. I make good money now, but it’s not enough. I know I’m yelling into the void, but it feels good to say it.

    • hperrin@lemmy.ca
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      6 days ago

      Republicans are already poor and victimized. But all they watch is political propaganda (Fox News, Newsmax, OANN, etc) so they blame it on immigrants and trans people instead of the rich who are robbing them blind.

  • Disaster@sh.itjust.works
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    7 days ago

    You are correct in your noticing Democrats have been the party of decorum - and that’s the penultimate refuge of the incompetent before violence. So, now we’ve established that the two-ply paper-thin veneer of legitimacy has unraveled, what should we do?

    There are ways out of this. None of them are easy.

    Vote with your wallet, vote in primaries. Go to community board meetings. Speak up, even if you’re afraid of what anyone might think. More people will respect you for trying than you’d think, but don’t waste the opportunity on something trivial.

    Don’t do business with anyone with destructive politics to the point where it causes you personal/professional inconvenience and costs your money. Support local communities. Talk to the guy on the street corner you always see but never approached. Maybe they can tell you something. Talk to the guy that makes your sandwiches at the store, your bartender, your barista, your cleaning lady, your laundromat people. Hell talk to your drug dealer/street pharmacist. Talk to your coworkers and don’t be scared. If they snitch then you will know indicators better for next time, and trust me - you will survive the mistake. Maybe it’s BS, maybe you’ll realize there’s an angle to help yourself and everyone else. Never do anything unless it helps more people than yourself, and doesn’t have an obvious negative externality that you can account for.

    Go to rallies, go to meetings. Show support in public for people you believe in, someone standing up next to you when you stick your neck out counts for more than you can possibly understand. Put yourself on the front line facing armed police. Make the point that you won’t break, and that they can’t scare you. Remain nonviolent until you have no other option, but be prepared when they invent reasons to hurt you withing reason - and remember that they may have thought they never had a choice (even if they did).

    This is going to get ugly.

    The next time someone annoys or inconveniences you, or says something provocative, ask yourself why, and ask yourself what personal hell they are living in made them do that?

    If this sounds a lot like religious nonsense, that’s exactly what it is. That stuff was (arguably flawed and wantonly misinterpreted) attempts to give people a map going forwards. We’ve been putting in an abysmal effort to do better for not only ourselves, but everyone else, and now everyone’s hurting. Some people you can’t help, they’re so stuck into their monomaniacal vision of reality that they don’t care who they’re hurting, even if it’s ultimately themselves through consequence or some other metaphysical mechanism whether you believe in it or not.

    Find a community, build a community. Be a leader and set a better example for everyone around you.

    It may already be too late but your actions going forwards from here will determine what survives, and whether THAT is worth saving.

    And remember - it’s not just humans. There are many other living beings on this planet that don’t have the technological capacity, legal status or physical ability to make themselves heard, and our status demands at very least the acknowledgement of some form of responsible stewardship.

    Good Luck.

    To all of us.

  • Lightsong@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    Join your local advocacy organizations, volunteer and make the difference in your community/local area. It’ll have more impact for you than you can ever do via federal level.

  • Dead_or_Alive@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    Elite centrists have dominated the Democratic party since Clinton. They love to take a “responsible” center left position and try to grab centrists. Unions, minorities and people on the left have no recourse but to continue to vote for them because the Republicans were soo much worse.

    Trump’s super power has always been his ability to say anything it takes to get votes yet deliver very little. Because of this he can say appealing things to unions and minorities who have been disenfranchised which undermines Democrats.

    The generation of boomers who have lead the Democratic Party since Clinton is literally dying out. These next few election cycles are going to be interesting as the next generation of Xers and Millennials have a different opinion of government and are much more militant and vocal.

    • Sl00k@programming.dev
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      7 days ago

      These next few election cycles

      It’s very hopeful to assume there will be another set of elections in 4 years or even midterms in all 50 states. We should be operating as if there won’t be.

  • shortrounddev@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    Need to reorganize liberal politics from the ground up. Liberals need to justify their existence and the value of their policies at the city and state level and use that to build a national brand. Democrats in federal government seem to be totally unwilling to push their agenda in deference to political norms, but in my state they get quite a lot done when they’re in power

    • BadmanDan@lemmy.world
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      7 days ago

      I disagree. Just by going off margins of past elections the last decade. Dems tend to have more loyal voters in non presidential years.

  • DarkFuture@lemmy.world
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    8 days ago

    At this point? Probably not. Not if history is any indication. We’ve blown right past all the checkpoints that would have prevented this snowball effect. Our legislative processes are almost too irreparably damaged for a healthy democracy to exist. We’ve removed too many regulations regarding money in our politics and not placed enough regulations on the focus of power on individuals and entities within our government.

    We’re probably going to go through a really dark period where the quality of life is going to decline, rights will be stripped, and a lot of vulnerable people are going to die and then, hopefully, things will get bad enough that a revolution happens. It won’t be like WW2 where more powerful forces come to our rescue. We’ll have to do it ourselves. And I don’t really have that much faith in our populace doing that. Again, it will take a really significant decline in quality of life for damn near everyone before that’s even possible. It looks like that’s where we’re headed though.

    • fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de
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      7 days ago

      Sadly, I think you’re right.

      It’s absurd that the wealthiest people in the world are making all the decisions that effect the rest of us, especially when they’re using that control to influence the rest of us through social media.

      I think the only solution is a revolution where wealth is redistributed, probably through violence.

      Bezos and Musks assets should just be nationalised. Give them pensions of 10m a year or something in return.

  • NineMileTower@lemmy.world
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    8 days ago

    I’m not positive of what the answer is, but I truly believe it will somehow sometime. However, please remember that this website is an echo chamber and sells doom and gloom. There is always hope no matter what the doomers say, otherwise they wouldn’t be here.

    • Brainsploosh@lemmy.worldOP
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      8 days ago

      Remember your information diet guidelines!

      Limit social media intake, read with an eye towards bias and agenda, and verify all news with independent sources.

      • Semi-Hemi-Lemmygod@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        I’ve been angry since I’ve been politically aware and I’m tired of it. It’s exhausting being angry and having no influence.

        I’m too old to be angry all the time.

              • snail_stampede@midwest.social
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                8 days ago

                In America, influence means money. If you can’t donate to a politician, you don’t have influence. That’s just how America works. You can’t build influence without wealth. As someome who has been involved with them, protests and marches don’t really cause a stir here any more, people just don’t care and it doesn’t really influence anything. You can get influence through violence, but people aren’t ready for that conversation and the right already has a head start on that anyway.

        • immutable@lemm.ee
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          8 days ago

          I still remember being taught about how politics is America is a pendulum.

          It swings too far to the right and people get pissed and send it leftward. Then it swings too far to the left and people get pissed and send it rightward.

          I have waited my entire life for the swing leftward, and I think I identified what broke America.

          Let’s say that this pendulum swinging is necessary, we are a pack of goldfish swinging from left to right looking for something good with short short memories. This system can be metastable, you don’t make a ton of progress on anything but you just sorta bounce between the two sides and the status quo sticks around and you don’t slide into madness.

          When 9/11 happened and Ws war on terror emerged, I worried that it would break the system. But in 2008, Obama emerged with a progressive message of hope and change. The pendulum I was told about was about to swing left. I had lived through the right swing of Ws time in office, and now I got to see what the left had to offer (which as a leftist was very exciting).

          I watched two phenomenons happen concurrently that broke the system.

          1. Obama captured the leftward energy that should have swung us back to the left and held it solidly in the center / center-right. He ran as a progressive firebrand and then governed from the center / center right. The big hop and change we got was nationwide Romneycare, a program devised by the Heritage Foundation which has done nothing but entrench the powers of the insurance industry into law.
          2. Racism broke a large part of the voting public away from reality.

          Obama wasn’t the first to do this, Clinton’s triangulation strategy was also a democrat governing from the center.

          So we have a captured Democratic Party, beholden to the donor class and they capture the periodic leftswing energy and hold it center / center-right. Things fail to get better and the population goes “well fuck the left doesn’t have any answers, let’s swing the pendulum back the other way”

          Over time the result is that the Overton window shifts and shifts and shifts until an oligarch is doing nazi salutes and the corporate media is going “oh he probably isnt really doing a nazi thing, he’s just advancing policies that nazis would love and saying things nazis would say and is excited and you know how hard it is to not do a nazi salute when you are excited.”

          Our only hope now is that trump doesn’t slowly boil us into fascism and overplays and the people revolt. But Americans have proven to be willing to just take it in the ass rougher and longer than I’d ever imagine.

          • DarkFuture@lemmy.world
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            8 days ago

            But Americans have proven to be willing to just take it in the ass rougher and longer than I’d ever imagine.

            For a nation known for being tough guys with guns who will fuck their government, or any government that messes with them, up if necessary, all I’ve actually seen all my life is a bunch of pussies that let the wealthy walk all over us. And I’m not exactly a spring chicken.

        • angstylittlecatboy@reddthat.com
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          8 days ago

          The US wasn’t run by Nazis in 1939 though. The same (rather popular) guy who was President in 1939 was President in 1941.

          It’s very possible Germany becomes run by Nazis again.

          • JeffreyOrange@lemmy.world
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            8 days ago

            It is not possible at all. No one familiar with German law and culture think this. This is not a talking point I have ever heard discussed seriously. There ist probably hundreds of reasons why it could never happen. Our legal framework ist very strong and we have a strong civil framework of resistance in case something goes in that direction.

          • superkret@feddit.org
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            8 days ago

            It’s very possible Germany becomes run by Nazis again.

            Nope. Not a chance. You can quote me on this.
            I do see how it looks like it could right now, though.

            There’s around 25% convinced right wing supporters in Germany. That number hasn’t changed all that much in decades.
            Now shit looks bad cause all 25% feel empowered and have rallied behind a single party, instead of being split into reluctant conservative voters, non-voters and a few hardcore Nazi party voters like in the past.
            But 25% aren’t enough to take over our system. Our entire country was specifically designed to prevent that, from top to bottom.