I think everyone who has been paying attention saw this coming. Now so-called “socialist” Hasan Piker is putting out CNN level liberal propaganda. Even western polling had to admit that Putin enjoyed an approval rating above 80% just prior to the election, but of course when you have demonized Russia to this degree you have to resort to reality denial to explain what you see.
We need to start using the term “red liberal” to describe these “leftist” political streamers and YouTubers who mimick the aesthetics and language of leftism while feeding into imperialist dogma and liberal assumptions about the world. Hasan also continues to deny the Donbass genocide that had been taking place since 2014 before Russia finally intervened, refuses to accept that Russia had legitimate reason to take action to stop NATO eastward expansion, and downplays the Nazi nature of the Kiev regime.
Now after he made fun of all the dumbass chuds who insisted in 2020 that the US election was stolen and made up all kinds of conspiracy theories to try and justify it, Hasan himself engages in the same kind of behavior when it comes to Russian elections. This is the kind of “socialist” who will act like they are not Democrat shills by superficially criticizing Genocide Joe yet continue to advocate that you vote for Democrats as the “lesser evil”.
It is good though that since 2022 all of these sheepdogs for liberal imperialism have been exposing themselves. Now we know where the lines are drawn. Once again Lenin’s words ring true:
“We are marching in a compact group along a precipitous and difficult path, firmly holding each other by the hand. We are surrounded on all sides by enemies, and we have to advance almost constantly under their fire. We have combined, by a freely adopted decision, for the purpose of fighting the enemy, and not of retreating into the neighbouring marsh, the inhabitants of which, from the very outset, have reproached us with having separated ourselves into an exclusive group and with having chosen the path of struggle instead of the path of conciliation. And now some among us begin to cry out: Let us go into the marsh! And when we begin to shame them, they retort: What backward people you are! Are you not ashamed to deny us the liberty to invite you to take a better road! Oh, yes, gentlemen! You are free not only to invite us, but to go yourselves wherever you will, even into the marsh. In fact, we think that the marsh is your proper place, and we are prepared to render you every assistance to get there. Only let go of our hands, don’t clutch at us and don’t besmirch the grand word freedom, for we too are “free” to go where we please, free to fight not only against the marsh, but also against those who are turning towards the marsh!”
Let’s not pretend Russia has any semblance of true democracy, is just as bad or worse than any other capitalist regime
I agree with all of that, all I’m saying is that i don’t see people like Hasan talk in the same condescending way about US or other western elections. He is implying that the Russian elections are more rigged or unfair than those in the US which i personally see no reason to believe. He is also implying that the 87% number is fake, which again, i see no reason to believe given that Putin is a wartime president and even NED funded NGO polls (not Kremlin polls) showed prior to the election that his approval rating is around 86%.
Of course i don’t think that the results of elections under a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie are legitimately democratic in the way that a proletarian democracy is. Media, money, the pool of candidates being pre-approved by the bourgeoisie, etc. play a huge role in manipulating how the people vote.
But i never see Hasan say that the 2020 US election was rigged. I never hear him imply that Biden did not actually get the percentage of votes that is officially claimed. When MAGA chuds call the result fake, rigged, or say things like “no way did Biden get that many votes” he makes fun of them, and rightly so because that is not how bourgeois elections are rigged. Yet when it comes to Russia he behaves like those same chuds that he makes fun of in the US.
When MAGA chuds call the result fake, rigged, or say things like “no way did Biden get that many votes” he makes fun of them, and rightly so because that is not how bourgeois elections are rigged. Yet when it comes to Russia he behaves like those same chuds that he makes fun of in the US.
This is a highlighter-worthy contradiction to illuminate. I don’t watch him; so I don’t really have a dog in the race to illustrate a pattern of liberalism; but given how much money streaming is making him, I’m not betting on him performing any kind of meaningful self-crit over it in the near future.
alright then fair, and a good point
I only support Russia as a foil to American power on an international level. Russia is not the USSR and Putin is no communist, in fact those absurd ideas are what liberals try to push. I don’t know if people who defend Putin in these ways are incapable of nuance or they’re just Russoboos, but defending Putin’s reactionary far-right nationalistic rule in modern Russia is NOT a leftist position. I’m sure the “democratic victory” in Russia is a farce, just like all liberal democracy is a farce.
But you can be anti-Nazis in Ukraine, against the extreme liberal transformation of Kiev, not think the invasion is good… but also understand that Russia was against a rock and a hard place and had to invade Ukraine to push back on NATO, think Russia is a crucial ally of the PRC and fundamental building block in BRICS+, and also abhor the racist, homophobic, transphobic and capitalist government of modern Moscow… and at the same time understand that Russia cannot be a Western style liberal (and Putin refuses to be communist) and they NEED something to unify the people. Black and white thinking goes against everything we believe in… nuance is what matters.
Modern Russia is like the USA during WW2, an ally of convenience, that’s it. Fuck Putin but also thank the universe for him.
I’m sure the “democratic victory” in Russia is a farce, just like all liberal democracy is a farce.
In that sense, yeah. But it’s certainly not inaccurate to say that these elections were also as legitimate as it gets (for a liberal democracy). Putin is genuinely massively popular, for understandable reasons particularly at the moment.
As for the invasion- no, I think it was a good thing. It should have happened sooner, but it’s better it happened as it did, than for Russia to have done nothing at all. And the severing of ties- between Russia and the west, particularly Europe- the diminishing of the arsenals of fascism, frankly, the death of many Nazis (and non-Nazis- but those who fought alongside them, admittedly) can only be considered a good thing. The weakening and humiliation of NATO is celebrated across the global south for a reason, and I fully join in with the sentiments- Russia, for all its faults and its compromised/hesitant circumstances that led it to this point- is doing something utterly amazing, beautiful, and liberating for the world, and I fully and utterly support its war efforts as such.
I wouldn’t even compare present events to that of WW2-era USA. Russia is not in a position to assume hegemonic status, militarily, economically, or otherwise, or inherit the post-colonial world, for instance- it is playing its part along with a host of nations (much of the global south, really) in ushering a new age of multipolarity. This difference alone could not be greater- Russia has many, many issues, but it is not imperialist, I also disagree with your notion that it is racist (at least, in regards to the Russian state and its influence), frankly, while it is liberal and prone to reactionaryism (particularly in regards to social issues) and we must not forget that, in regards to Russia’s reemerging influence and cooperation with other non-western nations- I can only call it as I see it- incredibly, utterly positive (and this is not unconditional approval- this is simply the fact of the matter, in regards to this country which is one of the greatest forces for anti-imperialism in the world at the moment and is tangibly eroding the imperialists’ bloc- however much it had sought to join them prior).
I agree, nuance is what matters. And a nuanced view should show that Russia is not, and will not, be comparable to the US in its role as a historical ally of convenience- it has its many issues to overcome, but its present actions, its present realities (no matter how its liberal elites may have sought otherwise) have grounded it with the global south and with the true international community. Russia is constrainted, geographically and otherwise; Russia is part of the emerging post-US hegemonic, post-dollar order; Russia is part of Afro-Eurasian and global integration and its circumstances have cemented its role as a force for this, rather than western imperialism. And- unlike the US, Russia in its present form inherited from the Soviets, as a civilization-state, clearly rejects the fascistic racial/ethnic/religious/etc supremacist tendencies of the west, whether in its domestic policy or foreign- unlike the historical WW2-era USA and Anglosphere, which basically collected Nazis and fascists of all stripes to craft their anti-communist bloc with; the difference could not be greater between modern Russia (which, while not socialist, cooperates with and is increasingly close to AES states like China) and the western “allies” in WW2.
That’s not to say Russia should be unconditionally supported, nor that it may never play a threat, of course- but I feel there is a world of difference, and in recognizing it- particularly in regards to the Ukraine war, we must not waver in our (critical) support until actually given proper reason to do so- and we must be especially cautious with drawing (sometimes fairly inaccurate) comparisons between Russia and the west, particularly the US- to avoid damaging leftist and general support for Russia in its present actions, which I would call undeniably for the betterment of the entire world. Russia may not have willingly gotten into this fight, and it may be in it for its own self-preservation, but this cause is undeniably just, and one that all of humanity- even the working classes of the west- have a stake in. It’s probably of little matter to debate the nuances here where most people get it, but in non-communist spaces, and/or in regards to those with a poor understanding of what is at stake, and what nuances exist, I think it’s important to be clear- for instance, that Putin’s mandate is as legitimate as it gets for any liberal democracy (ie. not very, if anyone’s asking- but infinitely more legitimate than that of any western leaders, and presently with a foundation of genuine, overwhelming popular support) and supporting Russia in its present actions in Ukraine is, I’d argue- the only proper leftist position, even if supporting Putin’s government in specific and the various social policies would clearly be not.
Overall I generally agree. Fuck Putin, but thank the universe for him- he didn’t want to be a hero (rather the opposite, he tried to join the west), and he is a deeply flawed one, but his actions are changing the world, overwhelmingly for the better all the same. But he’s definitely not a fascist, (not even comparable to the likes of Modi let alone the west) nor a racist, nor an imperialist (albeit that is more due to circumstance, perhaps), and I would call the invasion in Ukraine not only good, but an overwhelming triumph and boon for humanity- of course, it would have been better had it never had to happen in the first place, but as things turned out as they did, my only issue with the ongoing invasion is that it should have happened sooner. And modern Russia, flawed as it is, will not and cannot be the next USA- its circumstances do not allow it, and it is choosing an infinitely healthier, mutually beneficial path for itself and the rest of humanity as a result.
Great comment!
I think this is pretty much the position of most people here. I largely agree with what you wrote, minus maybe calling it an “invasion” (i would say it was a justified intervention that should have and would have happened sooner under a communist government).
It’s an invasion because it’s a war between two capitalist states. If we’re talking about the USSR, it would be an intervention rooting out the miserable liberal/nazi advance in Ukraine.
The objective national security imperatives of a state are not erased by its economic system.
Nor does being capitalist change the anti-fascist character of a war. The US was capitalist in WW2. They were still legitimately justified in fighting against Nazis.
Yes, Putin is popular because he is a crucial part of the state. After the shitshow that was the 90s, his name is synonymous with stability. You quite literally have to be an extremist to want to put that stability on the line. Even if you’re not fond of him, you have to recognise there’s no safe, viable alternative. There’s no way that the people most invested in the Russian state would let anyone else take the presidency without Putin’s consent.
In that sense the elections are fake: they’re not letting anyone else near the Kremlin no matter what. As opposed to the US where you’ll have two fake options.
Personally I think it’s weird to reject electoralism in the US/West and then to start defending Russian election results as ‘real’ because Putin is popular. You’re still playing the liberal game of electoralism.
In that sense the elections are fake
I don’t see how that makes elections fake, having only one realistically viable option. You can’t say an election isn’t real just because one candidate is massively more popular than everyone else.
What makes bourgeois elections illegitimate is that they are actually really decided by the bourgeois class through their control over the media apparatus which indoctrinates and manipulates the people into voting how the bourgeois class wants.
Also, conditions for electoralism are not the same in Russia as they are in the US. The US for instance has no politically viable communist party that could ever win any significant elections. Russia does.
At the end of the day I’m not saying that Russia’s bourgeois elections are legitimate, but that they are really not that different from those in the West, apart from the results. Also it’s not hard to understand why Putin is so popular:
Mind you this is essentially propaganda, it lies by omission of the more inconvenient social and economic indicators while focusing too much on averages instead of the median. But otherwise it is pretty accurate as far as the numbers that it cites. So given all that, who, other than someone with an already established ideology (whether communist or otherwise), would not feel at least a little admiration for Putin for what he has seemingly (“seemingly” because he or course didn’t do it alone) achieved these past 20 years in Russia?
Honestly, I’ve never followed any YouTube “Leftist”. I kept hearing people here speak so highly of him and I’m not surprised he ended up having Western chauvinist stances.
His chauvinism was never hidden, he has described himself for years as an “Ameriboo”. They just gave him a pass for his more problematic stances because he had good ones on other issues in ways that no one else with his reach and platform size did.
He’s only ever mentioned being an Ameriboo in the context of when he was a child and early teen and thought the US was an amazing incredible place that he wanted nothing more than to be in. Idealism that very quickly died when he understood the material reality of the US.
red liberal?
To me that sounds like someone who seemingly supports a right-wing party, but secretly is communist or socialist.
I think social liberal is probably less confusing for this kind of person, you know, a true and true centrist, not left or right.Social liberal works too but i thought red liberal has a nice symmetry to the commonly used slur “red fascist” that gets thrown at “tankies”.
The point is that there is a certain subset of “leftists” who like to hide their liberalism behind the language and symbols of Marxism. One very prominent perpetrator of this nowadays is Slavoj Zizek (who, incidentally, recently proposed giving nukes to Ukraine, portraying the Ukraine conflict as some kind of holy crusade of western civilization against eastern barbarism while at the same time managing to sneak in a racist comment about Arabs too…anyway, i digress), but this is an old tradition that goes back all the way to Kautsky and Bernstein.
I personally use Progressive Fascist: whose only hang-up with nazism is that they see it as regressive and would be totally OK with it if it wasn’t. It works because people see progressivism and fascism as mutually exclusive but don’t realize that’s literally what the nazis were about. They (through their fucked up fascist pseudoscience) wanted to ‘progress’ towards their perverted end goals. That’s why you’ll constantly hear arguments about ethics “holding back progress” from neo-nazis.
If you just assume progress = good than you can easily think that you’re a good person just because you’re progressive, and it creates a huge blind spot where nazi shit can slide in. You have to analyze what you’re progressing towards and ask yourself if that’s a world you want to live in. I think it’s safe to say that they haven’t given that much thought at all.
🌎 👨🚀 🔫 👩🚀
Also that quote is so much better in Russian! Lenin’s biting humour often gets lost in translation. In Russian “go into the swamp” is an insult akin to English “bugger off”, so Lenin starts with this poetic description of comrades advancing under enemy fire, but by the end of the passage turns it into the most polite “go fuck yourselves” possible: “you’re free to go into the swamp and we are prepared to render you every assistance to get there, only let go of our hands”
Holy shit I need to learn Russian
do not follow internet personalities, the internet is basically TV 2; you wouldnt trust people on the capitalist controlled television, you shouldnt trust people on capitalist controlled websites.
Good rule to live by.
Oh ffs…
The elections don’t need to be rigged. There is no one competing with Putin. People know what to expect with him, don’t believe in shuffling shit around expecting another outcome, he laid out a fuckload of plans, including social programs in his address to the Federal Assembly, all with “Budget already allocated” clause (and, you know…some of it at least will find it’s way to people) and there is a saying in Russian about changing horses in midstream too.
Also, turnout this year was probably pretty big without VCIOM having to bump it up in their reports. People weren’t voting to say they love Putin. They were sending a signal to libruls and the like (there are some pretty hilarious videos of them showing up to the polling stations thinking the line outside is for their little boycott and finding multiple people in “Putin’s team” t-shirts, shit like that). And in places like Belgorod people also went “fuck your terror bombings, Imma vote anyway”, because of course they did.
Yeah I skipped out on this one. Hasan has a lot of shitty moments but almost always self-corrects after the fact. Him unironically using and agreeing with Ben Shibibo on the use of “SJW” is probably one of his most consistent shitty things he does.
Pretty much he’s a liberal, but one who is doing real work at denazifying people so if you don’t like him, good, he’s not for you. It’s not like contrapoints who actively pushes against the left after making her career on it, or Destiny/Vaush who are now actively doing nazi propaganda.
I don’t get why Putin wouldn’t have such a high %?
He only allowed losers to run against him, the propaganda, the war.
More important question would be the turnout.
Maybe people in Russia like him because how much everyone else hates them.
He only allowed losers to run against him, the propaganda, the war.
Yep. Rigging elections is not limited to voting falsifications. Here’s what he did to 3 candidates that could win:
- He killed Navalny
- He didn’t let Duntsova to start collecting signatures
- He didn’t let Nadezhdin to get into ballot after he collected signatures
He killed Navalny
Why would he do that? Navalny was already in prison and there were plans to use him in a prisoner exchange him with the West. Who really stood to benefit the most from him dying just before the election so that Putin could be portrayed as killing his opposition? Cui bono?
Sorry but you have to be a special kind of stupid to believe that Putin did it
Do you think any of the other two you mentioned would have realistically gotten any more votes than Davankov?
If anything, them being on the ballot would have just split the liberal opposition more. Also, the Navalny camp called for his followers to spoil their votes in protest and the end result was around 1% spoiled ballots. They were never going to amount to anything. Same goes for the other irrelevant nobodies that you mentioned.
If you really believe Putin stole the election you have yet to answer a simple question: why would he need to rig it when he already had an 86% approval rating before the election?
If he really did forbid popular candidates who stood an actual chance of winning from running, don’t you think there would have been bigger protests? Don’t you think the result of the vote would look a little different? It’s not like anything stopped the followers of any other liberal opposition figure to pool their votes behind one who did get on the ballot.
Why would he do that?
- Putin started war with Ukraine.
- Why would he do that?
- Putin poisoned Navalny.
- Why would he do that?
- Putin started war with Ukraine AGAIN.
- Why would he do that?
- Putin drafts men to die in trenches in Ukraine.
- Why would he do that?
so that Putin could be portrayed as killing his opposition?
He did it many, many, many(3 attempts) times.
If anything, them being on the ballot would have just split the liberal opposition more.
And here you severe lack of knowledge about elections in Russia. Any elections except municipal is done in two rounds. Any vote not for Putin counts against him. Even invalid ballots are counted against him.
Also, the Navalny camp called for his followers to spoil their votes in protest and the end result was around 1% spoiled ballots.
Also untrue. Navalny called to show up at 12:00 on election day. His position was “go at same time, vote as you wish and look around you to see you are not alone”.
why would he need to rig it when he already had an 86% approval rating before the election?
Poller calls you: “Do you support President or want to go to jail for 30 years?”
There are 14% of people that would rather go to jail than approve Putin. I think Ekaterina Shulman had lecture about his approval rating in English.
If he really did forbid popular candidates who stood an actual chance of winning from running, don’t you think there would have been bigger protests?
You completely don’t understand what happens in Russia.
It’s not like anything stopped the followers of any other liberal opposition figure to pool their votes behind one who did get on the ballot.
Obvervation movement Golos: banned
Live streams from voting stations: no longer exist
Pamfilova’s and Sobyanin’s ДЭГ: exists
Mental asylum in my city: 100% for Putin with 400% turnout.
Putin started war with Ukraine
No he didn’t. NATO started a war with Russia using Ukrainian Nazis.
Putin poisoned Navalny
There is literally zero evidence of that. Just another empty allegation of the West.
Putin started war with Ukraine AGAIN
No he didn’t. The West and its Nazi proxies in Kiev wiped their asses with the Minsk agreements and continued to bomb the Donbass and while arming Ukraine to prepare for a full scale invasion of Donbass.
Putin drafts men to die in trenches in Ukraine
Complete projection. It is not Russia that has press gangs running around in every city beating up and forcefully mobilizing all men they can find, it is Ukraine. Russia doesn’t even send conscripts to Ukraine, their laws forbid it, they use professional volunteer soldiers. Russia had one wave of partial mobilization of reservists with prior military experience. Ukraine is on what, its twentieth round of mobilization?
He did it many (3 attempts) times
Yet again, more empty accusations from the lying West. Not a single one of those was ever proven, nor is it clear that Putin would need to or benefit in any way from doing that. The only ones who benefit are the West who get to portray Putin as a comic book villain for gullible westerners.
Any vote not for Putin counts against him
Cool, in that case it doesn’t matter whether this or that opposition figure was not on the ballot. So then why didn’t more Putin opponents vote for any of the other candidates?
Navalny called to show up at 12:00 on election day.
Oh wow, coincidentally that’s also around when most people usually go to vote. Isn’t it just wonderfully convenient to have a “protest” where you can’t tell who is actually protesting and who is just genuinely going to vote? That way you can have one person in a line of a thousand people claim the other 999 agree with them because they all happen to be standing in the same line at the same time.
Poller calls you: “Do you support President or want to go to jail for 30 years?”
Come on, even you don’t even believe that you go to jail in Russia for telling a poller that you don’t support Putin. Also, that poll was done by a NED funded NGO, it’s basically a western poll. You’re telling me they didn’t find any way to get an accurate picture of how much support Putin has?
There are 14% of people that would rather go to jail than approve Putin.
Oh so everyone who didn’t vote for Putin is now in jail? Wow, Russia’s prisons must really be overflowing, how is it that we haven’t heard of ten million people getting arrested and imprisoned?
I don’t know if you really thought that these lazy propaganda talking points would work here, but hey at least you tried…
By the way you still haven’t answered why he would do any of the things you accused him of.
More important question would be the turnout.
Turnout was around 75% which is a record high for the Russian Federation and more than you see in most western elections.
He only allowed losers to run against him
The reality is that there is no figure in Russia that would not come across as a loser next to Putin. Or do you buy into the West’s ridiculous propaganda that Navalny, who was virtually unknown and polled in the single digits before he was arrested was ever a real threat to Putin?
Of course this is sad for us too because it means that the KPRF have no impressive personalities to put forward either.
the propaganda, the war.
Sure, media always plays a big role in shaping the outcome of elections, but this is no different in the West. People will only really vote for whoever the media picks as a “viable” candidate, and the media has a lot of power to shape people’s impressions of a candidate, for good or bad. Look at how much the media favored Biden in the last US elections. Look at how the media demonized Jeremy Corbyn in Britain some years ago.
As for the war, yes this was a major factor. In a war, especially when it is going well (which it is for Russia despite how the West tries to spin it), people will “rally around the flag” and support the leader, even many who would otherwise not agree with him or like him. But this doesn’t support the idea that the result is fake, quite the opposite, it explains it.
Maybe people in Russia like him because how much everyone else hates them.
Very likely. The West really shot itself in the foot with all of the sanctions and the anti-Russian discrimination. If they hadn’t done this maybe more Russians would be pro-Western but as it is they see that the West is treating them all as enemies so they react by doubling down on their support for the person that is portrayed as the incarnation of defiance toward the West.
Yep. Basically you wrote a better version of what I was thinking.
Navalny was never going to matter. His peak could have been an advisor to a candidate.
I don’t think the polls were cheated, as the chance of being caught exist.
I do consider there to be a lot of propaganda, as well hey, about 50% of Americans think life would be better for them under the Republicans than anything else.
But yeah, just a little bit of thinking to get to “it’s probably not a trick”
Historically election fraud is rampant in Russia, it’s just the main losers are the communist party not what ever fascist the West likes that month. Idk why everyone is acting like it isn’t a thing.
Like they do do a bad job and statisticians do point to huge irregularities it just doesn’t matter bc Putin is still popular.
meh, he is not a thinker he is a reactor. He prolly did get those votes and simultaneously enjoyed more loyal media apparatus than typical in the west. But the west media wants russia to suicide again like in the 90s, so no loss there
more loyal media apparatus than typical in the west
I’m sorry, have you watched/read western mainstream media recently? When i look at German media it’s like Gleichschaltung has happened all over again. And in the Anglo countries the media are thoroughly infiltrated by the intelligence agencies, this is a well known fact.
You see way more liberal critics of the Kremlin and of the Ukraine war on Russian media than you will see critics of NATO or of the pro-Ukraine policy in western media. And when it does happen the latter comes almost exclusively in the form of Trumpist conservatives who are obsessed with going after China instead.
kinda, but russia doesn’t have something like the intercept (semy acceptable but critical newspaper), they have either fully tilted western copycats, or current party-line loyalists (well and myriads of telegram channels,i believe). Anyways, from leftist point of view, more interesting liberal-adjacent point is about bonapartism and how it’s not good long term or that cprf seems hell bent on self destroying.
The Intercept is most definitely not mainstream media.
Russia seems to be the litmus test in America. If you have takes like:
- Today’s Russia is a direct consequence of American (and friends) destruction of the USSR
- Russian protectionist consolidation under Putin is the result of the plunder that ensued the dissolution of the USSR
- Russia has thus a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie because of the US
- American liberals do not care about Russia being totalitarian. They just hound them for it because they are a bourgeois dictatorship that happens to oppose the American bourgeoisie’s interests. That is why for every 1000 Putler alarmist in the West there is half a person worried about the BJP authoritarianism in India.
- America has never brought democracy is to any country including itself. It is high time Americans stop worrying about the presence or absence of democracy in an another country.
- There is no third position when it comes to Russia. If you join the liberals clamouring about “free and fair elections” then you are wittingly or unwittingly supporting American foreign policy.
You instantly get labeled a tankie/campist and lose all your engagement on social media.
Americans not be weird about Russia challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
I do agree, his postures on Russia are indistinguishable from a lib, him saying that Navalny would’ve been better than Putin for russians is absurd. That being said i think he has to be very careful with his words in this specific subject because he lives in the US after all and his livelihood is tied to it, he could easily end up in jail for saying something not allowed by US media.
It is a kind of stepping on a mine thing in the US. You just cannot agree with Russia or against Ukraine or you will be deplatformed and branded a Russian shill. I’m not convinced Hasan is a principled Marxist but on this he has two choices which are shut up and say nothing or say this. Any other choice would result in Twitch likely demonitizing him, his sponsors leaving him, much of his audience leaving him and a good chance he gets straight up banned from Twitch at which point his influence and livelihood would be done, over, gone forever.
I personally in his position would just stay mum but he either does believe this as well or wants to cash in on the views from saying so. Though in his position I admit not talking about it would be seen as odd given what he discusses.
I don’t trust Hasan as he and many others could be part of the swerve strategy, recuperation, etc but this is the least surprising thing ever.
They kicked Roger Waters off his record label for understanding Russia. No one who is not a billionaire with their own media distribution (Musk) is immune from being cancelled over this and even Musk is the type who can have pressure applied given his position he could be dragged in front of congress and screamed at, humiliated, just in general harassed by the government. So while it’s true they almost certainly wouldn’t kill him, that’s because they could just ruin his life instead.
he could easily end up in jail
Let’s not exaggerate, the US isn’t yet on the same level as Germany. There are plenty of people in the US in alternative media who have a much less anti-Russian stance than Hasan, some are even openly pro-Russian. They get harassed yes, but generally if you are a big enough public personality there is not much that will happen to you.
and his livelihood is tied to it
This is more accurate. He has a vested financial interest in continuing to toe the liberal pro-imperialist line. He would indeed lose a good chunk of his audience and perhaps advertiser contracts if he did not go along with the anti-Russia talking points. This just indicates that he is a self-interested coward who is more worried about keeping the millions flowing in from subscriptions and advertisements than in actually using his platform responsibly and bringing (unpopular) truth to his massive audience.
What did Hasan say about 9/11?
He said that amerikkka deserved it, which is the truth.
The truth.
Let’s not exaggerate, the US isn’t yet on the same level as Germany. There are plenty of people in the US in alternative media who have a much less anti-Russian stance than Hasan, some are even openly pro-Russian. They get harassed yes, but generally if you are a big enough public personality there is not much that will happen to you.
He is easily the most influential leftist figure, maybe it’s just me but if i was in his shoes i would be very careful with my words because the US does have an history of minecrafting dissident figures. Another point, his audience is mainly baby leftists filled with liberal propaganda, if i was in his shoes i’d take it step by step, avoid talking about some topics while focusing on others that might be more important like China.
We definitely should call out the liberal propaganda he spews, so people ready to outgrow him can find the criticisms, but lets pump up the brakes a bit with calling him a sellout, he is doing this 24/7 and is bound to eventually say stupid shit, IMO he is a very important part of the communist pipeline.
because the US does have an history of minecrafting dissident figures
Well then Hasan is perfectly safe. You’re not much of a dissident when you repeat state department talking points about the US’s geopolitical enemies.
he is a very important part of the communist pipeline
He is part of a pipeline alright, i’m just not sure it’s a communist pipeline. More like a pipeline leading baby leftists away from anti-imperialism and back into system-compatible radical liberalism.
if i was in his shoes i’d take it step by step, avoid talking about some topics while focusing on others that might be more important
This argument would make sense if he was actually avoiding talking about it. He could have kept his mouth shut about the Russian election if he didn’t want to be accused of legitimizing Putin, but instead he chose to speak on it and basically call it rigged. And again, i have to stress it’s not that i am against saying that an election under a liberal democratic political system is, in a certain sense, illegitimate. It’s that he doesn’t ever say the same thing about elections in the US and Europe. He would never speak about Western elections in the same condescending, dismissive tone.
You don’t have to support Putin to acknowledge the reality that he is just more popular in his own country than any Western politician has been in theirs in a long time. An ostensibly leftist political commentator like Hasan could choose to have a productive discussion with their audience about why that is and try and understand the political dynamics inside Russia from a materialist perspective and gain some actual insights. But instead, like liberals typically do, he refuses to even acknowledge that another country’s leader that he doesn’t like can actually enjoy a considerable degree of support from the people of that country.
Liberals project their own likes and dislikes onto the rest of the world and assume everyone secretly thinks like them and just needs to be “liberated” by the enlightened West. Here is where that condescension and dismissiveness of other people’s cultures and political systems comes in. This same applies not just to Russia but to other countries whose leaders are demonized by the West and labeled as “autocrats” or “dictators” even when there is objective evidence that they enjoy a large degree of popular support from their people.
I might be biased and have a soft spot for him because i used to watch him religiously. But to raise another point, does it really matter if liberals demonize Russia?
Don’t you think that its in our best interests that the west focuses its attention on Russia, an ideologically aligned state, than in China?
It matters when so-called “leftists” participate in and encourage that demonization. It matters when it is done against any country that the neocon psychopaths have set as a target for their destabilization and warmongering efforts. It matters when it is done to Syria, it matters when it is done to Iran, it matters when it is done to the DPRK, and it matters when it is done to Russia.
This kind of rhetoric is not harmless, it is the kind of rhetoric that lays the groundwork for wars and murderous sanctions. The same kinds of lies that were used to justify the invasion of Iraq, the bombing of Libya, the bombing of Yugoslavia, the dirty war on Syria, etc. Each time they claimed that the leader of the country was a tyrannical despot who needed to be deposed, and each time a certain section of complicit “leftists” helped them to solidify and legitimize their narrative.
That being said i think he has to be very careful with his words in this specific subject
He doesn’t just have to worry about US authorities, but his platfom as well.
The guy has to perform a balancing act of not pushing too far against the narrative or he gets cancelled and then nobody is listening to him.
It’s why Western streamers are ultimately controlled opposition, and there’s only so much they can do to defy that control.
By that same logic you could argue we all should have stayed on Reddit and continued to self-censor our opinions.
There are alternative streaming platforms you know…
… like what?
Don’t get me wrong, I do agree there’s plenty to criticize Hasan over, but what’s the alternative streaming platform besides YouTube?
You mean an alternative to Twitch? Because on YouTube at least there are still channels that are being allowed to be “pro-Russian” (or at least what Ukraine supporters would call pro-Russian which most of the time just means still living in reality instead of delusional fantasies).
Of course we don’t know how long that will last so it’s good to start finding alternatives now. For videos there’s platforms like Odysee, and i’m sure similar alternatives for streaming will pop up eventually too if enough people are forced to move away from the mainstream platforms.
YouTube is not that different than twitch, if anything they tend to be much more restrictive, so it’s not really a good alternative. And yeah, I meant live streaming. There are no real alternatives atm besides shit like kick/rumble which are basically infested by nazis.
They don’t put you in jail, they disinvite you from corporate media, demonetize your YouTube channel, suppress your Twitter reach, etc.
Look at the history of Chris Hedges’ career. Ever since he questioned the arguments for invading Iraq, he’s been banned from all corporate media. And when Russia became the enemy du jour, his RT YouTube account was deleted and his years of content purged. Now he lives on Substack donations. Hedges: On Being Disappeared
He always was. That’s where his bread is buttered.
I’m not sure we should die on that hill tbh
I have no way of verifying any claim about election fraud. All I know is that Russia has a capitalist mode of production, a liberal political system and that Putin is not a leftist, but he is also opportunistically anti-west which is good.
If you see a potential comrade hyperfocus on this election fraud thing, it’s better to open their perspective wlso they shift their attention on what matters rather than trying to get them to trust Russia more which is pointless at this level of propaganda
Elections in Russia, a bourgeois liberal democracy, are no more or less legitimate than elections in the West. If you believe that elections in the West are legitimate, which Hasan does as evidenced by the fact he spent years making fun of conservatives calling into question the 2020 election, they you are a hypocrite or a chauvinist if you claim that Russian elections are not.
For myself i don’t believe any elections under the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie are legitimate. Real democracy can only exist under the dictatorship of the proletariat. But i take issue with the double standard that is applied by Westerners when it comes to Russia
I very much agree with this. Demonizing Russia only serves to make it look as if the west is somehow better when in practice both are dictatorships of the capital owning class.
Completely agree, he constantly says that “elections are free in the west, they’re not free in russia” which is complete liberal crap. All liberal democracies are rigged.
Elections in Russia, a bourgeois liberal democracy, are no more or less legitimate than elections in the West. If you believe that elections in the West are legitimate, which Hasan does as evidenced by the fact he spent years making fun of conservatives calling into question the 2020 election, then you are a hypocrite or a chauvinist if you claim that Russian elections are not.
Hasan has had AOC on his show in 2023.
Thanks for proving my point that Hasan is a Democrat partisan. That is the same AOC who repeatedly voted alongside the entire Democrat party to give billions of dollars and heavy weapons to Ukrainian Nazis while denouncing the Palestinian resistance for striking back against the Zionist occupation and refusing to call what is happening in Gaza a genocide, yes?
Damn I didn’t think his brainworms would be that big honestly, I had a form of sympathy for Hasan but now it’s gone. Who tf says they’re anti-capitalist and validate western elections??
In the end my reply was more about what you just said, that any bourgeois election is profoundly undemocratic
We should oppose lies and misinformation wherever we find it, even when it is used against people we don’t like or support. You can’t combat misinformation by allowing it to continue to fester in other areas. It all needs to be dealt with, or none of it will. We can’t have “just a little western media brainworms, as a treat.”
We should oppose lies and misinformation wherever we find it, even when it is used against people we don’t like or support
Totally agree. I’ll just say that it’s important to avoid being disdainful especially when it’s ultimately quiet hard to prove this negative and since the precedents aren’t strong
On the other hand the conversation around this election can be very interesting if you take it as a starting point to ask more questions like “if the election was actually genuine do you trust the media would admit it?” / “The Russian system and economy have been written by the USA, what does it say about us?” / “All polls say he is actually popular, why would he commit fraud if he’s already won?” and most importantly “Why do you seem to think that democracy means everybody needs to be upset at the last politicians in place and vote for a different one given the chance?”
I agree. He is the enemy of my enemy, but other than that you can point to him doing things the west does, which helps libs sometimes open their eyes to how hypocritical they are being. Other than that i maintain that Putin is just another bourgeoisie dictator of yet another oligarchy.
Also hasan being a liberal? lol. That’s going a bit far imho.
He’s a liberal not in that he doesn’t put a lot of effort into being a good leftist, but in that he has a lot of unchecked shit holding him back. He does what he does because he loves America and wants it to be the best that it can be. The correct leftist stance is the America as a country is built on genocide and needs to be dissolved and its land returned to its rightful owners. You can’t be pro-America on the left. Center at best.
I’m grateful that he’s not an outright nazi like his fellow streamers seem to be going into these days, so he’s clearing that bar at least, but if you don’t want to engage with him or his fans I totally get it. He’s really annoying and shitty at times, and that stems from his unchecked liberalism.
