- cross-posted to:
- technews@radiation.party
- cross-posted to:
- technews@radiation.party
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My previous car is a Yaris.
When I got the Yaris I heard people make snide comments like “Anyone see that big guy get out of that tiny car?” then gas prices went up and they became “Hey, what kind of MPG does that thing get?”
I like hatchbacks. Bigger is fine but nothing huge.
My current car is an '07 Yaris. It’s totally bare bones, but everyone who has been in it comments on how spacious the interior is.
I’ve always driven small cars, because they’re economical and I’ve never needed anything larger. I hate that small hatchbacks are so scarce in the US and that our roads are overrun with ludicrously huge pickups and SUVs. We transitioned from land yachts to small cars in the late 1970’s and 1980’s, we could do it again with the right incentives.
My current car is an ‘07 Yaris too. It’s also totally bare bones including manual windows and locks and no cruise control (the only feature I sometimes wish it had). It’s economical and much funner to try drive than most bigger cars, trucks, and SUVs. And on multiple occasions I have been able to parallel park it in tight spots that cars in front of me had to pass on.
I can’t even remember what year mine was. It was the first year it was in the US. Was a decent car. Good milage. But it chewed through water pumps so bad. It was either loud squealing belt or too tight causing it to killed the pump. Never could get it “just right”
That’s too bad. I have 189,000 miles on mine (304,000 km) and it’s never let me down. I haven’t had to do anything but regular maintenance on it. I wanted to replace it with something a bit newer and nicer, but had to replace the car my wife and daughter share, instead. Fortuately, I don’t drive very much so it will probably hold out for a few more years.
Thats the way to be. I ignore the urge and ride whats paid off until it just doesn’t make sense any more. The “newer spiffy” car models will still be around when its time.
I drive an Auris station wagon Hybrid (aka, the US Corolla iM with bigger boot). I had a chance to drive multiple Yaris generations and honestly I am always surprised by how roomy it is inside. They made a perfect use of space - way better than VW did with Polo (smaller Golf), that’s for sure…
I have a 2017 Hybrid Yaris in blue like this one:
https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDUwWDgwMA==/z/N20AAOSwg9Rdnu3V/$_86.JPG
That I affectionately call “Blue thunder” 🤣
Got the same model in red but with the 1.5L motor from 2019. Love it. Already got 75k km and it’s still running like a charm.
Mine has half that 37k. It had 31k when I bought it in 2020, and I don’t use it often. I hoper it lasts a few more years.
I have a Yaris and think it’s too big. It’s 20cm longer than my previous car (2005 Clio) but somehow has less interior space, it feels cramped.
My Yaris is actually older than me. so old in fact, that it was called “vitz” and/or “echo” in some countries. i am the 4th owner. had to replace the starter, all the fluids and the clutch (cuz old people). best car ever. it has around 100.000 km on it and runs like it rolled out of the factory just yesterday. considering we euros pay up to 7€ per gallon it’s good i still get around 40mpg out of it. love that thing.
I love that this has become the hatchback and Yaris love thread. As a GTI owner it makes me happy. I do not want nor need to go any bigger. It’s almost the perfect car.
Honda Fit gangg
As a taller woman my wife was against us getting a subcompact until I took her to test drive it thinking I wouldn’t fit. Between seeing how comfortable and efficient it was she was entirely on board
Just got a ford focus hatchback last year after a 95 suburban. Love it. Fits everywhere and fun to drive
Americans need to embrace public transit. We need trains that don’t completely suck in both speed and schedule reliability.
We’re never going to convince a lot of folks to leave their lifted F-150 or massive Suburban behind for a small car. But quality, affordable public transit that is not only efficient but saves money over owning a car would actually make a difference. We’re more likely to be able to get people to just leave the F-150 in the driveway and eventually move away from it.
Much better for the environment, too, and reduces traffic / congestion, etc. I agree smaller cars would be good, but the goalpost should be getting away from the automobile.
Americans have absolutely embraced public transit. It’s just that not a lot of cities have robust systems in place, but go somewhere like NYC or Chicago and you’ll see a transit system that millions rely on daily.
Public transit needs to do what it says on the tin. People won’t choose public transit if it’s the choice between an hour commute each way and a 3 hour each way bus ride.
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My dude what do you think OP is talking about. That’s what embracing public transit means ya dingus.
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You live in a democracy lol
You make it sound like you’re in an authoritarian state
Sure doesn’t feel like it a lot of the time
You live in a democracy lol
That hasn’t been true since the 80s.
Normal sized cars* you mean.
Normal cars aren’t small. They’re just small if you compare them to the giant ridiculous trucks they have over that.
Bold idea here, but maybe if we stopped fucking subsidizing SUV’s, people wouldn’t buy so goddamn many of them. Just a thought.
Take a breath it’s ok
Or an adequate mass transportation system.
Or walkable zoning, lack of which is the fundamental cause of the car dependency.
Give me a new El Camino EV with a 400 mile range and I’m in.
All my road trips are around 150 miles and there may or may not be a charger at the destination.
The article says range isn’t important…if you’ve ever looked at a map of the US, you’ll see why that’s a misguided statement.
To be fair, most people aren’t driving across the US on an even yearly basis, if ever in their lives.
400 miles doesn’t get you halfway across a single state in the western US.
But it definitely gets you to the next fast charger to get an 80 percent charge in 10 minutes.
That’s only relevant if you have a mythical car that can charge to 80 in 10 minutes. My car does it in about 90, the Solterra I almost bought has something like a 60 minute 10-80% charge time, and the fastest charging car on the market right now is the EV6 which is (IIRC) still 18 minutes to 80%.
Nevermind that the estimated 350 mile range in an ICE car is pretty spot on, where as a 250 mile range in an EV is best case scenario.
I own an EV, I think EVs are the future, but they’re not there quite yet. Not completely, and not in a way that can compete with a RAV-4, CR-V, or Forester in terms of miles traveled and minutes spent filling up. And often, locations where you want to stop, aren’t the same locations that have a fast charger.
EV makers are doing what they did for mpg with gas cars: put out numbers for “ideal” charge times and range that are way off of reality.
I think you underestimate how many people never leave their home city
Yup, I’m OK with a Ranchero EV with a 150 mile range.
Just city to city is typically at least 150mi one way. Maybe on the southern coasts, if I was really a homebody, could I get away with something under 150mi range.
There’s no way anyone in Texas is going anywhere in a standard range EV for example.
I drove from Minnesota to Kansas in an EV. Wasn’t too bad, just a few stops to charge. I needed to eat and go for a walk, anyways
95% of trips are 30 miles or less. Of course everyone is the exception, we’re all above average drivers here.
I guess I’m in the 5 percent? But still small cars can take long trips. That’s a frustrating thing, people assuming you need a modern day Conestoga wagon to do a road trip.
A car is too big of an investment to fail to take you from point A to B 1 in every 20 trips.
Something like the Maverick hybrid might be best for you.
But then you have to deal with driving a ford.
My dream car is a Nash Metropolitan converted to an EV.
That would be fucking dope. I’d love for retrofuturist cars like this to appear
I wish we got the Honda E. Would buy that up in a heartbeat.
Definitely would love a Honda E, got a Chevy Bolt EV as it seemed like the next best option here.
I’m usually not a hatch fan but that little car looked awesome. I got my last new gas powered manual transmission car before EVs are the main thing. Since I work from home and don’t drive a bunch my plan is to keep it as long as I can and get an EV in 4-5 years when hopefully infrastructure catches up a bit and more manufacturers have an option and work out small kinks.
That’s a pretty sweet ride.
Bro if you could get a used leaf gen one (they run around 4k), you could take that thing to a drag strip and absolutely turn some heads.
I have a friend who wants to take my gen one leaf and do a conversion. He just went to an EV mechanics course on it.
Same with a 1959 Panhard PL 17. Some of those little old cars are just beautiful.
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I’ve only seen one in person once, but I’ve loved it for years.
You’d chop up a nash, and put an ev motor in it? I do not have kind words for you.
the good thing is no one cares, throwaway.
When I was in high school back in the late 70s you’d still see a few of those around. My friend had one, but not for long. Someone had put in a more powerful motor and if she wasn’t careful accelerating she would snap the drive shaft.
So I live in the cousin-fuckingly-deep south where 90% of what’s on the road is trying its best to be a monster truck… I drive what looks like a pregnant rollerskate by comparison cuz I don’t want to send half my paycheck into the gas tank.
It’s funny-sad how the folks in the giant trucks get offended just by seeing my tiny car. Every day there’s always at least one asshole in an F-350 or some shit that likes to ride up on my ass cuz I guess it makes them feel powerful? I just drop a mph every couple seconds until either they fuck off or get annoyed enough to pass.
Anyway, moral of the story is that stupid-big vehicles are here to stay in the US, at least in the regions occupied by Y’all Quaeda. Their trucks are one of their few sources of self esteem.
…I’m really tempted to find one of those rubber testicle things that the cowboys like to put between the rear wheels of their trucks, but like a comically tiny one, color it like the trans flag, and hang it on the back of my tiny car just to annoy the rednecks on the road. …although here, that’d probably get my car or myself shot.
I got the chevy spark right before it got discontinued and the amount of people who comment on my small car in the south is obsurd. It’s great being able to fit into a parking spot between 2 monster trucks and it only costs like 25 dollars for a tank of gas. People who see vehicles as more than just a means of transportation baffles me. I like the tiny truck nuts idea I might have to steal that.
Forget small cars, we should be embracing non-motorized ways of transit. Make things human-sized again and allow us to walk and/or bike to destinations rather than having to have a motorized vehicle to get around.
Public transit is obviously a good thing to have, but I think it’s also important to have alternate forms of transit as well.
I was just on Block Island, RI the other day. It’s a 10mi^2 island with ferry service and an airport square in the middle of it. Very seasonal economy and the residents are wealthy NIMBY-types.
No trams or trolleys or any mass transit on the island itself. Lots of mopeds and bikes and a surprising amount of cars. We were on foot to a restaurant and approached a 4-way stop and both myself (pedestrian) and the bicyclist next to me were amazed at how hard it was to cross the street with all the taxis and rental cars around.
What a shame. The island should be a model of an ideal “minimal car” community, and could easily become it.
So much this. It’s infuriating to have to get in a car every time you want to go outside your neighborhood.
I recommend moving to a city
In the US, it’s really only NYC and Chicago that have functioning public transit. If you can’t go to one of those, you’re pretty much out of luck. It’s not like in Europe where every little small to mid-size town has light rail and train connections all over.
NYC (and presumably Chicago - I haven’t been) are the best, that’s true. I’ve also been to Philadelphia and Boston and both had good train systems. I currently live in a medium-sized city that is 90% bus transit, and even that can suffice even though it’s not great. It’s an exaggeration to say NYC and Chicago are the only places you can go without a car.
I have managed Denver and San Francisco many times without a car.
The question isn’t about managing, but about convenience. In some cities, public transportation is more convenient than going out and getting a car and dealing with parking and all that noise. That should be the goal, not “it’s manageable.”
That’s all fun and games until weather happens…and weather is going to happen a lot going forward.
I moved to Europe, grew up in New York near the City and decided to get a moped here to commute. It’s roughly equivalent to an Ebike but was actually cheaper than one and has a 100km range. It’s not highway legal as it has a top speed of 45km/h but can go on bike paths as long as I watch the speed.
After 3 months since I got the moped I am going to get a car because FUCK going to the office in the rain with that thing. The trains and/or busses go on strike about once a month, maybe a little less, and between delays and cancelations I can’t rely on them for my commute. I’ve literally been waiting for the bus and the driver just decides not to stop to pick me up too. Also packages don’t get reliably dropped off at my front door so I need to go into town or to the supermarket next to the highway to pick up my things which becomes untenable when they are bulky. Instead I’m taking taxis at a cost of €30 each way just to pick up shit that should be left at my door.
The dissonance is strong, I still need a car, and I still need one big enough to move bulky crap at least once a month if not more.
And before someone says rent a car, it’s €70+ a day to do so here and I have a preferred account through my employer. I need to book it in advance so it’s not a “same day” thing. Oh and the places they drop the packages off have weird fucking opening times and are often closed when they should be open so I’ve literally spent €60 on taxis to come home with nothing. That time the seller did me a solid and refunded me the €60 as an apology (it was a €350 item).
CAFE is killing the smaller vehicle. Vehicles are getting super round and boring for aerodynamics. Wheel base is getting longer. Track is getting wider. There’s no such thing as a small truck. Everything is am SUV (“truck”) or crossover (hatchback / station wagon). CAFE allows for less fuel efficiency for wider track and longer wheelbase and trucks over everything else.
Remember how VW got caught cheating on the mileage tests? Remember how every other major manufacturer was caught too?
The govt has set far too high of a standard for mileage, so car companies are making giant ass cars to meet (cheat) CAFE standards. The manufacturers have done everything they can but still can’t meet the standards.
The problem with CAFE is that it does not apply to trucks and SUV’s. So bear with me for a moment:
You are a car executive, choosing what car to make. On one hand, say there’s a station wagon. On the other, say there’s an SUV. The bean counters assure you they cost about as much to produce, but the station wagon has to comply to stricter regulations, and the engineers tell you they’ll have to work harder to make the station wagon comply to the law.
Meanwhile, the SUV costs about as much to make, but has way fewer rules it has to comply with. The marketing team tells you they can sell both vehicles just as well, though you may be able to set a higher sticker price for the SUV.
Do you build the more heavily regulated station wagon, knowing your margins are thinner? Or do you take the easier option with bigger margins and build the SUV?
You’ll even see the outcome IRL. In the US, Ford tries to convince you that the car you need for your family is a pick-up truck with a crew cab. Meanwhile, in the European market, where larger cars start costing much more much sooner, the same segment gets offered a seven seater minivan.
Here we have higher taxes for cars more than 4m long, so there are lots of small cars. Also, a lot of 3.99m cars.
Japan bases their taxes on engine size and gives significant tax brakes to cars 660cc and under. 3.0L and up are basically luxury vehicles there.
Cars have gotten bigger externally, but internally it seems storage space is actually going down. My 2014 Nissan Note has a 10% larger storage capacity than a 2023 Renault Espace, even tho the latter is 50cm larger in all three dimensions and is literally called ‘spatious’.
I drive a fucking roadster from 2001 and somehow it has more internal space than a 2021 sedan.
And the crumple zone is your legs, twice the use for the same space!
Jokes aside this whole thread could be summarised as ‘safety’ for the most part.
You’re partly right, but manufacturers aren’t just adding more crumple space, they are mainly building bigger and heavier vehicles. And that does not equal safety. Sure the crumple zone might be bigger, but the force of a crash is multitudes higher which results in a net negative, especially for pedestrians and cyclists
It’s 2001 not 1978, how bad do you think cars were 20 years ago?
You may be surprised.
False
I have a Volt, and I resent how few compact hybrid options there will be when I get a replacement. When I drive around, I literally struggle to see around the giant land boats cruising around. They hold up parking lots trying to stuff themselves into spaces, and if I get hit by one I’m much more likely to be injured. Average car size is kind of a tragedy of the commons. Everyone suffers when the cars get bigger, but the individuals with the dumb land boats suffer little of the cost.
tragedy of the commons
TILAW (today I learned a word):
The tragedy of the commons is a metaphoric label for a concept that is widely discussed in economics, ecology and other sciences. According to the concept, should a number of people enjoy unfettered access to a finite, valuable resource such as a pasture, they will tend to over-use it, and may end up destroying its value altogether. To exercise voluntary restraint is not a rational choice for individuals – if they did, the other users would merely supplant them – yet the predictable result is a tragedy for all.
Yes, the metaphor has fallen out of fashion for a lot of reasons, including that the guy who coined the expression turned out to be a real piece of shit, but the core concept is still a valid one.
No, there are really tangential analogies about how self-interested behavior can have negative consequences, but it is and has always been based around a bunch of numerous myths. Externalities is a better description of this.
Elinor Ostrom investigated management of the commons and the original description of tragedy of the commons was a complete lie. The commons were enclosed so that in this transitional stage of feudal lords could become businessmen that could profit off of using the land rather than taxing a peasant community living off of it. The enclosed commons is an asset to generate profit, where if enough of an increase in profit could be achieved, that could be reinvested, meant that exhausting the land would be an economically rational strategy. Where, if a peasant community is using it to sustain themselves, they have to carefully manage and steward that land so it is still producing for themselves years later, their children, and their grandchildren. The complete opposite of what the “tragedy of the commons” describes.
The idea of a commons as a shared resource that must be maintained through collective action is still a useful metaphor for our global environment. Just because Hardin’s scholarship about medieval commons was bad doesn’t mean our global world is not in itself a commons as the metaphor described it, and a useful thought experiment based on all the scholarship and debate that followed. And everyday people in a comment section who aren’t environmental professionals aren’t going to know the word “externality”. So not that useful outside of a limited audience
I love my 2017 Volt! I much prefer driving it to my in-law’s enormous Dodge Ram and Audi Q7.
Long live the Volt!
Gen1 Honda insight here to corroborate. Trucks seem to intentionally pull in front of me, even when driving reasonably above the limit, just to prove a point. It’s dumb.
Yes, and their headlights are at the perfect height for blinding me in the rear view
In California, America’s largest state by population, our #1 selling vehicle is the Honda Civic. And driving on our roads, Civics, Corollas, Accords etc… dominate the roads. And even the biggest selling SUV the CRV gets like 30+ to the gallon.
Small cars sell in places where small cars work.
You list few vehicles but don’t appear to know they are in different segments. They’re not classified the same so you can’t lump them together.
- Civic is small sedan or hatchback
- Accord is mid size sedan
- Corolla is small sedan or hatchback
- CRV is a mid size crossover
Small cars, and mid size cars for that matter, don’t sell well in general. They’re ~9% of total sales each. Luxury and full size sedans are like ~3% each but they are targeting a very specific demographic that know they’ll always have a buyer.
People often blanket both true SUVs and Crossovers into the SUV category for simplicity. But they are in fact different. Crossovers do breakdown into multiple segments itself, though it’s typically the mid and full size that sell very well. Collectively crossovers are ~48% of the market. A good example of how to differentiate is Ford Explorer is full size, Ford Escape is mid size, Ford EcoSport is small.
Trucks are ~19%, and actual SUVs are ~8%. For example the Ford F-150 and Ford Expedition share the exact same ladder chassis. Different bodies are bolted on. By this definition, SUVs don’t sell well either. Lol. The terms gets muddied up due to mass consumer confusion.
Vans fill the rest of the percentage here, but are typically commercial and fleet.
There was a time back when gas prices got kinda high when I thought Americans would finally shift down to slightly smaller cars, but now it’s practically a cultural thing for half the country to burn as much fuel as possible, so I suspect even if gas prices here hit Europe levels it wouldn’t cause them to budge much.
It does feel really odd, though, going somewhere like a school and just being absolutely surrounded by huge SUVs and pickup trucks that you know damn well like 90% of the drivers aren’t actually utilizing.
Double-sucks because it’s becoming more and more difficult to find a small car. Everything new, even most cars, are huge.
I thought after 2008 that we had finally gotten over our large car addiction.
They’re so addicted to SUVs now that Ford doesn’t even make a car other than the Mustang. Their entire lineup is SUVs.
Looks to me like vehicle sales have been taking dramatically, probably due to the increased cost due to “supply chain”. Also, EV sales grew 42.7% last year.
