Hi,
A friend wants to degoogle his phone, so I suggested the OS I’m currently using. The one we can’t talk about… He wants a small/compact phone, so I suggested pixel 4a (not buying second hand though), but I’m afraid that planned obsolescence may kill the phone rather soon. What’s your opinion?
Cheers and thank you for your help,
Yes, it is. You should not recommend such a phone. And this only in terms oft update.
The arguments against the company behind this phone would Film books, but that’s another point
What’s the OS we can’t talk about?
To be more helpful than the joke comments you’ve received so far, it’s graphene OS that’s causing a lot of controversy.
What’s the controversy?
They claim their security measures are better then other custom ROMs.
Don’t they all make that claim?
Do they all really? I know GrapheneOS does, and I think DivestOS even says “use my OS to stay as up to date as possible, but if you have a current/supported Pixel, use GrapheneOS instead for superior security.” But I don’t recall other OSes really going “we’re more secure than GrapheneOS and here’s why.”
Hence the controversy! 🙂
Also, Graphene tend to act superior about it and it pisses people off.
That doesnt sound like a controversy, its bascially “btw, I use arch”
https://www.privacyguides.org/en/android/
There is no controversy. There’s a lot of people memeing. I haven’t seen a single security analysis, or survey of options, that didn’t put GOS at the very top. Look at privacy guides, they say graphene is great, but if you can’t use that divest is okay.
People may not like the leader, and the developers are very opinionated which turns other people off, but I don’t think there’s any questioning the pedigree and the level of security provided
I’m honestly not quite sure, I just know people are getting riled up when it’s mentioned.
It gets people going, (Daniel) 'Mkay?
I stole this from another lemmy comment, please don’t come after me
Who’s comment was that 😂
Can’t really remember right now. I think it was a thread on which phone to buy and people were talking about graphene os on pixels.
Someone commented something along the lines of “m’lady” but with Daniel Micay’s name as a pun
The open-source one that’s so powerful it summons an online fight with at least 50 members if mentioned. It’s kinda anomalous so it is recommended not to mention it online until further research.
Hannah Montana Android.
We don’t talk about Hannah Montana Android.
We sing about Hannah Montana android
The OS-who-shall-not-be-named lest you summon it’s power.
Random hardware suggestions, using mobile Linux support as a litmus test
- Pinephone (Pro): Main downside is that OG Pinephone has extremely anemic hardware, and the charging circuit is not controlled through hardware for some insane reason; hope the kernel devs of whatever OS you put on it knows how to not turn your phone into a bomb. Also Pine64 as a company has gotten flak for their support of Manjaro. Can’t deny how good the price is though.
- Fairphone 4: Good hardware, but expensive. I don’t own it, but it works good on postmarketOS according to the wiki.
- Librem 5: Overpriced compared to the earlier members on this list, but you can guarantee the phosh interface will work well considering it was developed by Purism as well.
- OnePlus 6 and 6T: I don’t know much about these, but they’re very popular with the mobile Linux crowd.
As for the pixel, there’s work on it but it’s still broken at the moment. As for the hardware being too old, I haven’t used anything Android in a while, so I don’t know how much performance degrades each release, but a mobile Linux distribution should run just as good today as it will 20 years from now, assuming you use the same interface.
tangential: I‘m using a oneplus 6 with postmarketOS but depending on your friend‘s it skills, it might not be ready for him yet.
So far its very usable but I suggest someone must want to swim against the current and do things differently. One could say a „pioneer“ type would be ideal for this.
Pixel 4a was one of the last in the Google (5a being last). The OEM lost its way after that. This enough to not recommend their devices as far as I am concerned.
The Google Pixel 4a is officially end-of-life and doesn’t get any software and security updates anymore (https://endoflife.date/pixel).
CalyxOS still provides extended support for Pixel 4a until August 2024.
FYI: “Extended support” from a custom rom means the OS level software gets updated, not the device firmware. So you still end up with a not fully up to date phone.
Written from my Pxiel 4a. :)
Umm one question by the way , why use Google phone to degoogle? There are plenty of good Android phones out there right?
While it is ironic, the pixels are easy to unlock the bootloader and have good support across lineage, calyx, and graphene. Been using one to degoogle for awhile and would recommend them
Google makes the most open and customizable phones. Unlocked bootloaders, the ability to sign your own code. Rapid security updates for baseband drivers.
Nobody else comes close.
https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices
Actually pine phone is really open, but it’s not android and nowhere ready to be a daily driver.
Yes, that is too old for a new phone considering it’s already past its end-of-life for both official support and your OS. I’m not sure why you’d recommend them to buy new either - a phone like that is only going to be good value if you pick up a used one for cheap. A new model will be massively overpriced for what it is (and may not even be new, just refurbished and repackaged).
I guess they were talking about a refurbished or a used one.
They specifically said “not second hand” so I assumed not.
Sorry I am really blind recently. A new 4A is a terrible deal
Depends on your friends threat model, lineage will work on it.
No security updates makes the Pixel 4a a bold choice for your main phone. I don’t recommend it
I would follow the graphene OS recommended phone guide, that gives you maximum flexibility to put any operating system you want on the phone.
Phones are insecure devices, by design. Should be OK.
Just don’t do anything on a phone that falls under “sensitive” on your threat model. Use a proper computer with a proper password for that.
Could you explain how phones are insecure by design?
How long is your password? Do you ever type it in public?
You can use two factor, fingerprint plus pin and have the pin layout randomize each time.
That’s extremely insecure compared to a computer
How?
So you’re saying that, in order for me to steal everything on your phone, all I have to do is stand behind you in a supermarket and film you unlock your screen once. Then, on the way to your car, I quickly pull a knife on you and force you to tap your finger on your phone, then I hop on a motorbike and ride away.
Hope you didn’t have any banking apps or crypto on your phone, because now that’s gone.
QubesOS on a laptop is much much safer.
I think phones are the MOST secure devices most people have. They are locked down, they run software in very restricted containers, they have more restrictive feature allowance. for 99% of the people the phone is the most secure device, full stop.
Can you do better on a computer? Sure, but it takes a bunch of work and isn’t the out of box experience
Can someone explain to me under what circumstances would using an old phone be risky (under a common reasonable threat model)?
No security fixes once the device reaches end of life. For pixel 4a end of security updates was 10 months ago. That mostly is a problem with malicious apps - there were some privilege escalation bugs in those 10 months - but sometimes you get a banger that can get exploited by simply loading a page or opening an image.
I get it about malicious apps but what about just using mainstream apps and surfing the web with adblockers?
Wouldn’t those be typically handled at an OS level? If you’re using an OS that actually gets updates, you’re only vulnerable to attacks at the kernel or driver level
If you are on stock software on EOL device you are not getting os updates either.
Also a bunch of recent vulns were in SoC specific stuff - outside os.
The Pixel 5 is still a great phone with his battery life and camera, and the last Pixel small enough to used one-handed.
If they’re not gaming or doing anything CPU-intensive it’s what I reccommend today. Everything afterwords has been an incremental upgrade.
4a is end of life already, so no firmware updates from Google. GrapheneOS has legacy builds available for it but doesn’t recommend using them, and they might go away anytime soon
get a used device which is still properly supported, don’t buy brand new e-waste
You could just jot use Graphene OS. They create ewaste just as much as Android. Lineage OS will run on 8 year old phones.
I have a 4a running graphene and I love it but after 3+ years the battery life is shot. I really didn’t want to buy any of the new pixels because they are all too big and I hate big phones. I was thinking of just buying a new 4a and installing graphene again (because got forbid making a phone where you can just swap out the battery in this day and age) but are you saying this would be a bad idea at this point? Like even if they keep graphene up to date the phone will still be outdated (and therefore vulnerable) at the kernel/hardware level?
yes and P4a is already one major GOS/Android version behind, it’s only getting “extended legacy support” releases. i.e. security fixes are merged and backported where possible, but it’s overall not the best setup and they recommend to switch asap.
I’m pretty sure GOS will drop Android 13 (and therefore P4a) as soon as they release Android 15, since the team won’t be maintaining three major Android versions.
CalyxOS ported Android 14 to P4a, so you might squeeze an additional year or so out of it if you switch.
I’d either replace the battery in the old P4a, or get a newer model with 7y software support. But buying a new 4a is probably not your best possible move
After my 6 year old Redmi 4X’s screen touch decided to die, I got an opened-not-used Pixel 4a (in perfect condition) at the end of 2022, because it was one of the few small-ish phones that had good modding support (Pixel phones are ofc known to be very good to degoogle). I love it. Feels good, works well, has a great camera (got a GCam mod too), etc. Only downside is the smaller battery (3100 vs 4100 mAh), but honestly it isn’t that big of a deal, I can just carry a powerbank on my backpack or, you know, use my phone less.
Back then, it was the perfect choice for me. Now, I don’t know, haven’t been keeping up with current models.
I love the battery. I got a well used phone and I rarely have less than 70% at the end of the day.
But I leave my phone in airplane mode 24/7 (just use WiFi, no SIM)
Its comments like this that lead Google to make newer phones have stupid big batteries. I hate those big, heavy phones :(
Ah right, airplane mode makes a ton of difference. I also tend to have it enabled as much as I can, usually when I’m home (and thus reachable through VoIP services) or at work. And I (almsot) never turn it off, I just leave it in airplane mode. I limit the charge to 75/80%, with ACCA, so I get even less juice.
And I’m sorry, I also dislike big phones with huge screens and batteries, there’s no real need for that. But I know that you can fit better batteries in smaller phones as well. My previous device was smaller than the Pixel 4a, but had a bigger battery, while having almost identical weight.
I wish manufacturers would make smaller phones, really. I’m very unsure what other device I will get after this one dies or gets broken…Thanks for sharing ACCA. Very neat
No problem, glad to have more people know about it, it’s very useful!
Hi, do you maybe know any similar apps like ACCA that do not require root?
Unfortunately, no. I believe you can’t really get this level of control without root access.
Yes, it’s too old. Does not receive software updates anymore. The newer a-series of phones are still quite a bit larger than the 4a but also quite a bit smaller than the 8 or especially 8 “Pro” or whatever the fuck stupid name they’re giving phones these days.
The software updates are maybe not an argument when it comes to degoogling? Then it depends if the OS they plan to use still sends updates.
The hardware driver updates are absolutely critical if you want to have a secure phone. The phone has to be within the support window, to get any hardware driver updates. The risk surface of a phone’s hardware is huge, you’ve got the Bluetooth drivers, you’ve got the Wi-Fi drivers, you’ve got the modem drivers, and any other sensors I may have forgotten about.
I mean…you’re gonna have to run some operating system on it. And that operating system is going to need security updates.
Its to old. You really should not be using phones that do not get full security updates.
Has there been a successful exploit against a phone with old firmware but modern Android security patches?
I am not sure if there is an example of that specific situation as it would be pretty odd for a phone to be receiving security patches but not firmware updates.
Anyway its not super relevant as the Pixel 5 does not receive firmware or security patches anymore.
OP also seems to be inferring he suggested to his friend to use a very specific security / privacy OS that does not recommend using that model phone anymore for the exact reasons I mentioned. Plus the model is only receiving partial support as a stop gap for users to have time to get a newer model and won’t be supported much longer anyway.
Custom ROMs will receive upstream Android security patches but not patches from proprietary components (firmware). For instance, my Moto g7 power has Android security patches from May but the latest vendor security patch level is 2021. (I’m running Lineage OS) I’m curious to know if the older firmware is a problem. I don’t think it is easily exploitable outside of government backdoors. Not that it matters much as I plan on keeping my phone until it dies.
Not sure where your getting your information but the Pixel 5 has not gotten Android updates or security updates in over 7 months.
There are tons of examples of exploits being used to target EOL phones as its common for people to not care about these updates, or be misinformed, so they are easy targets.
If OP or anyone else wants to use an EOL phone that’s fine but, don’t pretend its a smart security practice. Although even if I were to use an EOL phone, LineageOS doesn’t have the greatest background and isn’t really degoogled
You are still missing my point. All phones actively supported by Lineage OS get Android security patches. Those aren’t vendor patches but they do patch the OS and sometimes the kernel.
For instance, the Pixel 5 was last updated June 28. https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/panther/
Not to say that you should still buy it. However, if it cheap it might be worth it.
Also from the article you linked:
Although the incident forced LineageOS to take offline all its service, it did not impact the signing keys that authenticate distributions because they are stored on hosts separate from the main infrastructure.
Those are partial security patches (its not in the same ballpark as a non EOL phone).
Even non EOL phones are usually updated dangerously slow when it comes to LineageOS.
Some more sources, not sure why I’m even adding them as you seem hell bent to believe LineageOS is secure regardless of the facts.
https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm
https://www.kuketz-blog.de/lineageos-weder-sicher-noch-datenschutzfreundlich-custom-roms-teil4/
If my device is so insecure why haven’t I been compromised? Your “facts” are only important if it promotes Graphene OS.
