• General_Effort@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      That’s where the almost comes in. Unfortunately, there are many traps for the unwary stochastic parrot.

      Training a neural net can be seen as a generalized regression analysis. But that’s not where it comes from. Inspiration comes mainly from biology, and also from physics. It’s not a result of developing better statistics. Training algorithms, like Backprop, were developed for the purpose. It’s not something that the pioneers could look up in a stats textbook. This is why the terminology is different. Where the same terms are used, they don’t mean quite the same thing, unfortunately.

      Many developments crucial for LLMs have no counterpart in statistics, like fine-tuning, RLHF, or self-attention. Conversely, what you typically want from a regression - such as neatly interpretable parameters with error bars - is conspicuously absent in ANNs.

      Any ideas you have formed about LLMs, based on the understanding that they are just statistics, are very likely wrong.

      • Kethal@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        “such as neatly interpretable parameters”

        Hahaha, hahahahahaha.

        Hahahahaha.

        • magic_lobster_party@kbin.run
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          4 months ago

          If parameters aren’t neatly interpretable then it’s bad statistics. You’ve learned nothing about the general structure of the data.

          Linear regression models are often great tools for explaining the structure of the data. You can directly see which parts of the input are more important for determining the output. You have very little of that when using neural networks with more than 1 hidden layer.

          • Kethal@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            “If parameters aren’t neatly interpretable then it’s bad statistics.”

            Haha, keep going guys. You obviously know a lot about statistics.

            • magic_lobster_party@kbin.run
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              4 months ago

              https://www.nature.com/articles/nmeth.4642

              This article use different wording than me, but in essence: Statistics is mostly about using a known model to explain the data. Machine Learning is mostly about finding any model that predicts the data well. Different purposes with some overlap. Some statistical methods are used in Machine Learning, but that doesn’t necessarily mean all of Machine Learning is statistics.

              The boundary between statistical inference and ML is subject to debate—some methods fall squarely into one or the other domain, but many are used in both. […] Statistics requires us to choose a model that incorporates our knowledge of the system, and ML requires us to choose a predictive algorithm by relying on its empirical capabilities.

              Another (potentially lower quality) article that is not from Nature, but discusses the meme in particular:

              https://www.datarobot.com/blog/statistics-and-machine-learning-whats-the-difference/

              Because of the large number of variables in machine learning datasets, the models developed from them can be simultaneously extremely accurate and almost impossible to understand. Statistical models, on the other hand are typically easier to understand because they are based on fewer variables, and the accuracy of relationships is supported by tests of statistical significance.

    • magic_lobster_party@kbin.run
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      4 months ago

      That book probably doesn’t go much further than neural networks with 1 hidden layer. Maybe 2 hidden layers at most.

      IMO, statistics is about explaining data. Regression is useful to explain how parameters relate to each others. Statistics that don’t help us understand data isn’t useful statistics.

      Modern machine learning has strayed far away from data explanation. Now it’s common to deal with more than a dozen hidden layers. It might have roots in statistics, but mostly it’s about brute forcing any curve to the data. It doesn’t help us understanding the data better, but at least we have approximated some function.

      • ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
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        4 months ago

        If you have any ideas about how statistics are at the bottom of LLMs, you are probably thinking about some other ML technique.

        It might have roots in statistics

        Care to reiterate?

          • ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
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            4 months ago

            Wheels have roots in carriages

            Whether you are a badass with a horse carriage or a cuck with a horseless carriage doesn’t really drive home your point