It’s lemmygrad, we’re the spectre. I’d bet at least half of the other instances out there block us, there’s only like 300 dedicated users on this instance, and they still can’t stop complaining about lemmygrad/tankies

  • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    6
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Really shows that liberalism is just a cult at this point. These people see any views outside their own bubble as heretical and become emotionally distraught when their own views are questioned. They’re not able to carry a rational discussion or even make an argument. When they engage with others they just follow a call centre style script where they regurgitate the tropes they memorized. The only tactic these trolls use is to brigade and silence views contrary to their own.

    • DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      They would disagree because “lots of people are liberals.” Which is, ironically, a common defense a lot of cults use to justify why they aren’t a cult.

      The “Call centre” script is pretty fascinating though, reminds me a lot of creationists. You can show them evidence of transitional fossils, biology experiments demonstrating evolution in a lab, it doesn’t matter. They’ll ask for specific evidence, then when presented with it, find some excuse to ignore it, like tone policing or attacking a source for being “illegitimate” or “biased” without even reading it. And when they can’t do that, they’ll just ignore the responses and only interact with the people hurling insults because they can dismiss that much more easily than a reasonable argument.

      • diegeticscream[all]🔻@lemmygrad.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        They’ll ask for specific evidence, then when presented with it, find some excuse to ignore it, like tone policing or attacking a source for being “illegitimate” or “biased” without even reading it.

        I’ve been playing with dropping non-sequitor ridiculous links as “sources” in sincere comments, and I have pretty solid proof that liberals arguing on the internet almost universally do not click the links for sources.

        I’ve done it quite a bit, and the only people who acknowledge or comment on it are comrades from here.

    • redtea@lemmygrad.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      That’s an interesting idea. I’ve said something similar irl, that there’s a bourgeois script.

      There’s no point arguing with someone who goes into it by default. Especially family members. Not everyone uses it, but for those who do, the only end point is an exchange of insults.

      Good examples are reactionary TV ‘news’ presenters. They aren’t interested in the argument or evidence, only providing their audience with another example to confirm their pre-existing worldview. There’s always another quip, another reason why they don’t have to consider a new idea. It’s infuriating. But when you can recognise it, you’ll save yourself a lot of intellectual hardship and emotional pain.

      • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        1 year ago

        Yeah that’s exactly what I realized as well. When you see that people are just regurgitating talking points they memorized, you know there’s no meaningful conversation possible and it’s best to just move on.

  • knfrmity@lemmygrad.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    I had an irl conversation the other day which hammered this point home. Westoids cannot psychologically handle being called out on being wrong, not knowing something, and on being prejudiced. That and all the other material reasons we know and discuss regularly mean that this instance, no matter how small, is a thorn in their eye, a spectre haunting their dreams.

    • ImOnADiet@lemmygrad.mlOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      1 year ago

      Especially the prejudice, it’s always that we need to save Chinese people from their government, it’s always some extension of the white man’s burden couched in softer language

    • DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      It really is treated as a “sin” to be ignorant of something in the west. Personally, I love not knowing something, because it means I get to learn something, but again, education in the west is treated as “that thing that happens when you’re 6-18 and no other time.” and refuse to ever try to educate themselves as adults.

      • relay@lemmygrad.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Yea. I’ve learned to not believe everything I hear anymore. It takes time to look into whether something is true for me nowadays.

  • CountryBreakfast@lemmygrad.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    3
    ·
    1 year ago

    Lemmygrad: 😴

    Lemmy: “tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie tankie”

  • ComradeGiraffe@lemmygrad.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    Its crazy to see all the complaining about tankies, but I hardly see any complaining about exploding heads. Some people supporting Russia over the US is a big deal, but actual fascists passing laws in the US is barely a passing thought. Hating a foreign government more than home grown fascists is an american past time at this point. Shows where the “centrists” and “free speech advocates” sympathies lie.

  • Catasaur@lemmy.catasaur.xyz
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    This is why I made my own instance, when the large instances defederate from one another they are effectively censoring and controlling what you see. In most cases, that means banning any sort of marxist discussion.

    • CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      There’s some mechanics that need to be sorted out with federation. But I say this while not offering any help to Lemmy, so I’m just ranting and not criticising where the project is right now. They only have so many devs working on it and the founders are doing overtime to bring new features in.

      I’m banned from lemmy world apparently which means that lemmy world users who interact on lemmygrad or any other instance will not see my comments, as they won’t be federated (copied over to lemmy world’s database essentially). I can see some problems with that because while I get the principle, it effectively allows instance administrators to determine who can read whom. If you make a friend on another instance too and they get banned or their instance defederated, you’ll lose all contact with them.

      Perhaps even worse is that lemmy.world users who come to lemmygrad won’t be able to read my comments, which is just weird because this is my instance. I effectively cannot interact with them even on my home instance! Being an admin too makes it more complicated, like if I posted a pinned message to welcome users from X instance and I’m banned on that instance, they effectively wouldn’t see it. You also don’t get a notif when you’re banned or unbanned, so you would never know.

      But I’m sure these will be improved in due time.

      • Łumało [he/him]@lemmygrad.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        I think a good way to mitigate this for the moment, and temporarily, would be to have a dedicated admin account only for that purpose and your normal user account for anythiny else. This should help fight the problems you have in the short term.

        • CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          it’s too late unfortunately as I’ve already been banned from lemmy world. Dk if it’s a temp ban or what though and I don’t care enough to trudge through the mod log lol

    • redtea@lemmygrad.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      1 year ago

      And all their users don’t realise that the reason those censoring instances look more like Reddit is because Reddit had a campaign to censor all radical speech. It’s not rare because radical speech isn’t popular, it’s rare because it’s hidden and crushed.

      Would you talk me briefly through setting up your own instance? Do you just run it when you want to go online or do you need to stay connected with a 24/7 self-hosted server? Don’t answer these questions if it means sharing details that would compromise your security.

      • Catasaur@lemmy.catasaur.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        Late ass reply, sorry! I just now have finished tweaking my config to my liking.

        I purchased a VPS and a domain name - I run it 24/7 on that server. The VPS is about $10 a month. If Lemmy optimized its db queries a little bit I bet I could get away with hosting it on a $5 a month server, though.

        On that server, I’m running the Lemmy Docker container. There are some docs here: https://join-lemmy.org/docs/administration/install_docker.html The docs are a little light on the env variable configuration though… there were some settings I had to hunt to find.

        I am using Caddy as a reverse proxy: https://join-lemmy.org/docs/administration/caddy.html

        Caddy takes care of https automagically with Let’s Encrypt.

        All in all, it is a pretty simple setup. I don’t know the security profile of Lemmy so I don’t host anything worthwhile on this server in case it gets compromised, just Lemmy.

        if you ever take a stab at it, I’d be happy to help answer questions. I am not sure if there is a dedicated community somewhere in the Fediverse for Lemmy selfhosting discussion.

  • JoeKrogan@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    Well I’m reading this on .world so it is not blocked there. I think these days people like to put others in boxes to make it easier to have us vs them.

    Personally I only block spammers and abusive accounts. I consider myself socialist too if that matters.

    • ImOnADiet@lemmygrad.mlOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      Yes, we aren’t blocked by 2 of the biggest instances. I didn’t mean “half the users”, but every time I see a new instance in a username I go check their blocklist and it seems like ~1/2 the time lemmygrad is blocked. You would be welcome to post here even if you weren’t a socialist, you just can’t post capitalism apologia

    • redtea@lemmygrad.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      There are quite a few socialists over at .world. And some others who aren’t socialists but willing to talk in good faith. It’s nice to see you and them over here.

  • Red Wizard 🪄@lemmygrad.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    I love how the Spector seems to imply an evil in the heads of most Normans. I see it in my friends group and I will admit I had heard the line in the past and thought the same. Then I decided to actually read instead of parrot and realized it’s a Spector in the same literary sense as the Spectors from A Christmas Carol that haunt Ebenezer Scrooge.

    The Spector of Communism exposes the world to the material realities of it’s past and present, which lay the stones that lead to the grim shadows of a future yet to come. Shadows, dear reader, that we might change by leading an altered life.

  • Shikadi@lemmy.sdf.org
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    I haven’t heard of you yet, what are they complaining about? I’ve only heard complaints about Nazis and fascists

    • ImOnADiet@lemmygrad.mlOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      1 year ago

      Can’t tell if this is supposed to be a “tankie red fash lol” dig but I’ll take it in good faith anyways.

      We uphold socialism here, not that socialist states are/were perfect places, but that they are/were legitimate attempts at building worker states, and demonstrably improved the lives of their citizens. Liberals (we use that to mean anyone from a nordic soc dem to moderate republican, or even unserious anarchists) really really don’t like this. The accuse us of “genocide denial” or just being “delusional” for questioning the dominant western narrative

      • ghostOfRoux();@lemmygrad.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        1 year ago

        It doesn’t help that there really is nuance in discussing previous and current socialist experiments but even that has practically become a meme and is met with “communism has never worked” commentary from liberals.

        • ImOnADiet@lemmygrad.mlOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          1 year ago

          Exactly, often times we just give up because liberals constantly make bad faith arguments, so we just respond with goofy “stalin did nothing wrong” memes

          • ghostOfRoux();@lemmygrad.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            I’m actually working through some thoughts on how to even explain that there is bad and good in these systems. But unless you have a good understanding of history, theory, or even dialectics(which I don’t quite yet) it’s really tough to do without resorting to whataboitism. At least for me it is. A common point that I see brought up on the left, and I think it’s a good argument, but when the black book of communism number of 1 gorbillian dead get brought up, you can easily argue that you can calculate 100 million excessive deaths every 10 years in the US as a counterpoint but I think we can all agree that excessive deaths are bad regardless. Well unless they are fascists of course.

            • RedClouds@lemmygrad.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              This was one of the hardest parts of my transition to socialism, finding good information that didn’t require a doctorates degree in history and/or philosophy. The S4A podcast has been running for years and is just now getting to the end of their “introduction to Marxism” series… Like, you can’t expect most people to do this…

              After buying a number of books I am making my way through them and they are fascinating. But it did require me to self-investigate and open my mind a lot, and read a lot, to decide to study further.

              The nuance is so strong and so many people have been taught bad information that it’s hard to even begin a good conversation, so we resort to jokes because at least we can get a laugh out of it. I’ve dumped walls of text, and gotten some good results, some bad results.

              I’ve been on the lookout for short/easy introductions that aren’t in-your-face-about-it (Worked for me, but not for everyone). There’s no reason to pander unnecessarily, but to provide reasoned arguments in short-form, to plant the seed of information that could bring someone out of their propaganda. I guess the biggest problem is just getting past the initial ichy feeling most people have when the word “communism” is thrown out.

              I think for me it started with just anti-capitalism, and US military actions that were obviously against our “core values”. But that’s not enough for everyone.

              • ghostOfRoux();@lemmygrad.ml
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                I am also working on a short list that I can recommend so once I am at home and can type them up we can compare notes maybe lol. I’m trying to find books that aren’t super dense but still cover all that needs to be to get the point across. For example, I had an easier time with Principles than I did with the Manifesto because Principles reads a lot like it was written recently. Still read the Manifesto tho, ya know?

                I’ve found myself also starting to attempt to explain things in simple terms and idk where that even came from. Understanding how Marx developed his ideas for Marxism from a philosophical perspective is crucial I think but damm is it tough at times.

                And yeah you can describe socialism or communism to quite a few people and not call it those words and they tend to jive with it but as soon as you drop the C or S word it’s all over. I work closely with a local Dem club where I’m at(I know still liberals but a lot of them seem to mean well, and a few of them do knowy views) but a few weeks ago socialism got brought up and 2 of these older dudes started in on how “socialism has never worked” and without skipping a beat one said we need to go back to aggressively taxing the super rich. Same set of people want M4A, affordable healthcare and school and all the other stuff and I’m like yeah that’s kind of socialism my dudes. And again, their is even nuance to what actually is socialism in that context but you get it.

    • CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      In the minds of some, we communists are apparently one and the same with fascists.

      But the reason there are so few out and out fascists on Lemmy is exactly because it’s a communist project, and we were the biggest instance before the reddit exode. They actually discussed this on reddit in some of the more reactionary subs and decided it wasn’t worth getting on lemmy because of this.

    • Drewfro66@lemmygrad.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      1 year ago

      It’s an instance for Communists, specifically Communists who support AES (actually existing socialism). In short, we think that the USSR and PRC (among others), while not perfect, were legitimate attempts at building Socialism and better than Capitalism as it exists in the West.

      Other people don’t like that because, to them, Stalin was just Red Hitler and Xi Jinping is literally committing a genocide right now. Neither are true.

      • Shikadi@lemmy.sdf.org
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Ah okay I can see how that’s controversial, given China is heavy on censorship and control, and in reality they’re just another form of capitalism run by a rich oligarchy. Plus with the way the world has changed, I think a new system is needed because we’re heading towards enough automation that not everyone should need to work.

        I don’t know much about the USSR so I won’t comment on that

            • commiespammer@lemmygrad.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              Ok but in all honestly, just because there are rich people in China doesn’t mean it’s a ‘capitalist ogliarchy’. Sure, there are billionaires in the party, but they have just as much power as any farmer or worker, no more and no less.

              • Shikadi@lemmy.sdf.org
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                That’s not true in the slightest though? I mean the very fact that there are different wages, there’s poverty, China invests heavily in foreign companies (both the government and private Chinese corporations), that’s all capitalism. The farmer doesn’t have any say in what tencent or the China Evergrande Group does. The CCP controls the media and limits free speech, and makes decisions for everyone. Even if you’re to somehow convince me that the people who control the CCP aren’t rich oligarchs, they’re absolutely still in control of the CCP, and it’s not communism.

                • commiespammer@lemmygrad.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  Oh my god there are companies, guess there’s no more socialism guys!1!1!!1

                  Just because there are companies does not mean that China is revisionist. And Tencent and China Evergrande have nothing to do with the government. Why would they?

                  edit: What do different wages have to do with socialism? Also it’s CPC, not CCP.

                • IntoDaLagoon@lemmygrad.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  0
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  The CCP controls the media and limits free speech,

                  In my country like three completely unnacountable megacorporations control the media and limit free speech. The CPC at least gives a shit about public health and safety

                  and makes decisions for everyone

                  I don’t remember being consulted on the decision to invade Iraq, continue the illegal blockade of Cuba, send missiles to Nazis in Ukraine, make food twice as expensive, have the sky turn blood red from fire every couple years, be watched by police snipers at a football game, live in an endless pandemic, or drink microplastics for the rest of my life.