Don’t go down the “natural balance” kind of revenge fantasy. It only makes one comfy in passivist boundedness. Also the guy in the picture is far more likely do do just fine in a climate catastrophy than you. Gaia nature god lady won’t bring you any justice, at all.
It’s not about justice. It’s about homeostasis. The guy and possibly his kids will be fine in their luxury climate bunkers as the world grows more bleak and they bark orders remotely until there’s no one left alive or dumb enough to keep listening.
The thing is though, what we’ve done and are doing right now will take millions of years to heal. Nothing to Earth’s 3.8 billion year old story of life, but effectively eternity to our monkey brains. I just don’t see our species putting down our shovel and living within our ecological means when that would mean necessary decline in our quality of life and intentional population control over time. We were warned for a century. We are feeling the effects. Scientists are noting new runaway effects conservative estimates didn’t account for. We need to stop 30 years ago, and we won’t even stop today.
I don’t consider it justice, I consider it wholesale refusal as a species to live within our ecological means. We just keep digging, and the consequences, the physics, don’t care why.
Of course your base argument - capitalist economy is ecolocically destructive and dysfunctional regarding the needs of the many.
“Until there is noone left to fulfill their orders” thats the kind of “justice” i’m talking about. Like, Homoestasis will put them down in the end. Justice will be served. But that’s deceptive satisfaction.
Justice would be them dying and the many societies people like them destroyed for self-enrichment that lived in equilibrium with nature, like the Native Americans, thriving again.
imagine if we’d spent the last 1+¼ century collectively working towards the utopia this kind of project hinted at - instead of developing new machines to destroy?
typically they say utopian dreams scatter in the face of increased technological awareness. have to say my experience has been the opposite.
the more i learn about technology, the more i realise we could probably be very close to a near-utopia by now. for some suspicious reason we took a very different road, and here we are.
Yeah I don’t know. Just see how the modern world is shaping society to the negative. Generation Instagram/TikTok all want to be influencers, there’s growing mental illnesses. Fertility rapidly declining (and it isn’t unfortunately all because of education). Capitalism is almost perfected abusing the dopamine system in an unhealthy way. I don’t want to be a doomer. I just don’t see where we are close to utopia. Which for me would be more sociali(sm) more community, less narcissism/egoism and more solarpunk. But right now we are on a different path. I’m happy to be proven wrong though…
Capitalism defeats itself through decline. The decline is a part of the process, join an org and build up dual power so that when it does collapse, there is a ready-made alternative. Thinking and hoping don’t get you closer to Socialism.
Believe me I’m doing all parts of things towards this, but I’m being realistic, I’m just 1 of 8 billion people… And Capitalism as much as I would like it to be different seems to be a rather stable system (destabilising all sorts of other things, don’t get me wrong). I expect other things to collapse first (and foremost ecological systems).
It is, but I fear it will break apart much later than we hope it is. And likely violently, as worse ecosystems also mean less base on which capitalism can grow which in the past lead to conflicts. I mean the whole stuff gets already unstable when it isn’t growing (and I don’t mean capitalism as whole, more like everything connected to it)
Don’t go down the “natural balance” kind of revenge fantasy. It only makes one comfy in passivist boundedness. Also the guy in the picture is far more likely do do just fine in a climate catastrophy than you. Gaia nature god lady won’t bring you any justice, at all.
for we as a whole really deserve none.
We don’t exist as a whole, wich is the political challenge I would like people to focus on.
I think in post religious thinking it’s not about “deserve”
It’s not about justice. It’s about homeostasis. The guy and possibly his kids will be fine in their luxury climate bunkers as the world grows more bleak and they bark orders remotely until there’s no one left alive or dumb enough to keep listening.
The thing is though, what we’ve done and are doing right now will take millions of years to heal. Nothing to Earth’s 3.8 billion year old story of life, but effectively eternity to our monkey brains. I just don’t see our species putting down our shovel and living within our ecological means when that would mean necessary decline in our quality of life and intentional population control over time. We were warned for a century. We are feeling the effects. Scientists are noting new runaway effects conservative estimates didn’t account for. We need to stop 30 years ago, and we won’t even stop today.
I don’t consider it justice, I consider it wholesale refusal as a species to live within our ecological means. We just keep digging, and the consequences, the physics, don’t care why.
OK doomer.
Of course your base argument - capitalist economy is ecolocically destructive and dysfunctional regarding the needs of the many.
“Until there is noone left to fulfill their orders” thats the kind of “justice” i’m talking about. Like, Homoestasis will put them down in the end. Justice will be served. But that’s deceptive satisfaction.
Edit (cant properly edit on jerboa rn) … your base argument is right.
Justice would be them dying and the many societies people like them destroyed for self-enrichment that lived in equilibrium with nature, like the Native Americans, thriving again.
I agree with you. Justice isn’t on the table.
i’m not refuting your core premise.
but on the note of this issue, not sure i can agree.
have a look at this public infrastructure technology from 122 years ago:
Youtube/Invidious
imagine if we’d spent the last 1+¼ century collectively working towards the utopia this kind of project hinted at - instead of developing new machines to destroy?
typically they say utopian dreams scatter in the face of increased technological awareness. have to say my experience has been the opposite.
the more i learn about technology, the more i realise we could probably be very close to a near-utopia by now. for some suspicious reason we took a very different road, and here we are.
Yeah I don’t know. Just see how the modern world is shaping society to the negative. Generation Instagram/TikTok all want to be influencers, there’s growing mental illnesses. Fertility rapidly declining (and it isn’t unfortunately all because of education). Capitalism is almost perfected abusing the dopamine system in an unhealthy way. I don’t want to be a doomer. I just don’t see where we are close to utopia. Which for me would be more sociali(sm) more community, less narcissism/egoism and more solarpunk. But right now we are on a different path. I’m happy to be proven wrong though…
Capitalism defeats itself through decline. The decline is a part of the process, join an org and build up dual power so that when it does collapse, there is a ready-made alternative. Thinking and hoping don’t get you closer to Socialism.
Believe me I’m doing all parts of things towards this, but I’m being realistic, I’m just 1 of 8 billion people… And Capitalism as much as I would like it to be different seems to be a rather stable system (destabilising all sorts of other things, don’t get me wrong). I expect other things to collapse first (and foremost ecological systems).
In what way? Disparity rises and Imperialism gets worse until it eats itself alive. Systems exist in motion, and Capitalism is unsustainable.
It is, but I fear it will break apart much later than we hope it is. And likely violently, as worse ecosystems also mean less base on which capitalism can grow which in the past lead to conflicts. I mean the whole stuff gets already unstable when it isn’t growing (and I don’t mean capitalism as whole, more like everything connected to it)
It seems to be breaking pretty quickly.
That’s why I’ve started trying to disconnect from social media. So far it’s been harder then quitting smoking
Yep, Internet addiction is real, and so widely socially accepted…