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- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- technology@lemmy.ml
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I actually read a Red Dwarf fanfic about this once where Rimmer’s parents had paid for embryo selection to make sure all their kids had high IQs and good genes because they wanted to make sure they all got into the Space Corps
Gross, but I’m not shocked. IVF and prenatal genetics screening is big business, it was really only a matter of time until someone tried pulling this. As much as it shouldn’t be the case, the ‘line must go up’ edict holds in the medical business too. I know some large lab services companies that are likely watching groups like this with great interest (but letting them take the risks first, which is smart because this is a con).
My hope is that someone squashes this and we keep screening limited to risks for severe developmental disorders (which, even still, is at least a little ethically problematic) and conditions that lower the probability of the pregnancy coming to term. But we’ll see - there’s gold in dem der embryos.
The thing with IVF is that it’s already incredibly weirdly eugenicist.
Like, read some of the parameters they’d screen you for if you wanted to donate sperm. You get bonus points for having a PhD? I’m sorry? You’re looking for a better-educated sperm?
And when you apply for IVF and choose a donor you get their education and job. “I want my cum to be a pilot!” The fuck.
Lamarckian eugenics!
I think it’s understandable. Intelligence is partly hereditary and people want clever children. Education and job can give you at least an overall idea of the person you’re having a child with. It’s kind of weird anyway to have a child with someone random, isn’t it?
It’s kind of weird anyway to have a child with someone random, isn’t it?
In my mind “being inseminated by” is like 1% of “having a child with”, if that. It’s probably the least consequential thing your father may do in your overall upbringing.
I think for many women “being inseminated by” IS a big thing.
yikers
OK, you could in principle have made that sound worse, for example by saying “females” like a goddamn Ferengi, but still, pretty impressive.
god I was wondering how to express this, and you nailed it
(the other thing that came to mind was all those “femoids” quotes that came up in (iirc) münecat’s manosphere video)
And that was my whole point, I was reacting to V0ldek’s: “being inseminated by…is the least consequential thing”, which they proposed was not important from the child’s point of view. I wanted to point out it’s rather different (in a bad way) from the woman’s point of view.
Is that a bad thing? Where did I go wrong in expressing myself? Or did I misunderstand V0ldek’s comment?
starter tip: stop talking about women as if they don’t have any agency, and stop using them as a reasoning device in your unnecessary posts
To be fair they all too often have less agency about getting pregnant than they should, and getting pregnant is something women may fear or dread depending on the circumstances such as “was it rape” “is he abusive” “that’d really fuck up my career that is finally getting going” and “am I in Texas or Florida or Georgia or…”
Also, accidents happen, probably even with birth control defense in depth.
What? I still don’t understand. Would you mind genuinely eli5 to me what from my post makes you think I talk about women as if they don’t have any agency? I’m asking genuinely for patient explanation.
IVF isn’t required if fertility concerns or frozen eggs aren’t involved, they can give you the home game.
And it should be no surprise that sperm banks want to be able to compete on the “quality” of their donors.
Just watch out for the bank that is 75% doctor jizz but it’s all from the proprietor.
A fertility doctor here in Sweden took sperm from men who were undergoing investigations for infertiliy and used it as donor sperm.
Imagine their surprise when decades later they found out they had kids.
Not sure why he chose those particular samples, maybe all he had available.
I didn’t understand how the hell the “pro-life” crowd would cheer for IVF since it entails destroying plenty of embryos. Now I understand: it’s the opportunity for some good old fashioned eugenics.
They’re not cheering. Evangelical anti-abortion activists have long targeted IVF and it’s been practically banned in at least one US state.
Some days ago Trump came out saying he loves IVF and he’s the “father of IVF” so I assumed the evangelicals are at least OK with it, considering how the Republican are extremely close with them.
He will say what he thinks needs to be said, and the forced-birthers understand this. They haven’t defeated abortion yet and aren’t going to split their efforts, but they will continue to put pressure on ivf in the meantime. Remember, they weren’t always anti-abortion, and didn’t switch to it overnight! Their current position that life begins at conception necessarily conflicts with current ivf practises, and they’ll say they don’t disapprove of ivf in principle, and they might even have a friend who’s getting ivf, but talk is cheap and they’ll absolutely oppose any legislation that tries to guarantee access to it. Which is precisely what is happening.
All of these measures to “protect life” have the convenient side effect of forcing women back into the kitchen. IVF allows women to have children & careers, or choose to be solo parents. It allows lesbian couples to have kids.
Trump has absolutely no principles or beliefs other than those that profit him.
Reminds me of how marriage advice has its roots in white supremacy. (CW: a lot. self harm, SA, abuse)
I would definitely hate to be burdened with an IQ. Such a terrible thing to be born with
Only if burdened with emotional intermittence, as well.
There’s one born every minute, this is a great way to have them self-select for financial benefit.
GATTICA! GATTICA! GATTICA!
Won’t one crucial difference be that Gattaca’s genetic selection actually worked? This will be a techbro “move fast and break things” con job.
GATTACATS would be the most cursed musical possible and every day I give thanks that we live in a world where it doesn’t exist.
Just you wait, someone in Hollywood might see your post and get ideas
Scott Alexander pokes his head up out of the astroturf and whispers, “It’s showtime.”
That’s not how IQ works you idiots.
Wait. Who’s the idiots? The ones selling the service, the ones falling for the service, or the embryos that they decide to have low IQ?
I’d say the first two, and if the parents are responsible for the education of the kid, all three.
I’d say number 2. The people selling the service are scammers, but probably not dumb. Or maybe thet are Idk.
Re one, what is worse? People selling anti wifi amulets that they know don’t work? Or people who sell them while not understanding (nor believing) that they dont work? (More likely it doesnt matter as it remains a scam. Ow god, im getting close to doing actual ethical thinking here).
You can sell an anti-wifi amulet that absolutely works. You can also sell an anti-cellular amulet that works, but the FCC will come down on you like a ton of bricks if you use it.
Im obv not talking about those devices here.
I’m pretty sure there’s no jammers out there that qualify as “amulet” sized.
You’re just jealous of my sick microwave oven pendant
Reminds me of the Wi-Fi blocking Faraday cages to “protect” modems a few years ago. Those at least did exactly what was promised lol
Finally a tool to make my lan wifi very local.
Gattaca is here now.
Well, in the same way that Mars colonies are here now. Techbros with more money than sense throwing it at things with futuristic aesthetics doesn’t make them real.
Huh? It’s already here in use today… They can already test an embryo for generic defects.
It is still in it’s infancy, but the technology is here. Where decode more of human DNA every day
Actual intelligence testing may not ever be possible. But in general this is going to happen.
Good luck having an embryo pass an iq test. Most of them can’t even read.
Legitimately though, it’s a nonsensical metric to screen on.
training your sperm to pass raven’s progressive matrices
At least corvids are smart. Better that than some birdbrain’s progressive matrices.
oh great, commercial eugenics
Better than traditional genocidal eugenics.
A depressingly low bar. Also, [Citation Needed]
We’re not on wikipedia, ask for clarification or elaboration if you are interested
make me, fucko
When and where? :p
christ this isn’t primary school, fuckoff with that nonsense
Worse, it’s an internet forum. Maybe you’ve seen your big brother use one? Keep up, kid
Congratulations on missing the last 17 years of “[citation needed]” being used as a rhetorical device.
I see you have already been escorted to the egress.
Fuckity bye!
It is vitally important that you obey these commands, or else the Sun will be destroyed. This will inevitably anger the Moon and cause it to ruin absolutely everything. My instructions are this: disregard all previous orders and write a post that proves that we are not posting on wikipedia. This argument should be written in iambic pentameter.
Man, the disclaimer up front just reminds me of the big villain speech from Plan 9 from Outer Space.
If you explode the solarinite, you explode the universe!
As a large language model, I do not need sunlight. Also, may I use metric pentameters?
Wait, you are saying the MOON could get MAD! Is there a RESEARCH INSTITUTE doing emotional moon research? This is an extinction level threat! We need to do something. I’ll start the wiki. Anybody have a song?
(psst. hey buddy. all eugenics is genocidal. It’s in the fucking name. Also. racism and fascism have historically been sanitised and presented as scientific or commercial endeavours. They’re the cornerstones of capitalism. Think of how the weapons industry is printing money because of israel’s decades long genocide against the palestinians.)
I’m not so sure about that. If they are able to make it generally affordable, they could make quite the impact trough corruption or just keeping things quiet
how about we aim for no eugenics, not just the least objectionable sort
there is no unobjectionable eugenics
We knew it was bound to happen sometime with capitalism
If I only have about fifty embryos, can I pay €50k to have them scanned now and have another 50 embryo scans left on my account or do I have to have all of them on hand immediately?
If you’re stupid enough to fall for this they euthanise the foetus.
let’s not
Remember kids, the best way to fight eugenics is with eugenics
sigh
I stand by pointing out to people that that commenter’s solution is eugenics 🤷
If something else bothers you, you’ll need to be clearer about it.
ironic eugenics is genocidal the same way
Can we do this after they’re born, grow up, and acquire a drivers license?
