The truth is it’s unlikely anything historically big is going to happen in the US. We saw what Trump did last time he was in office, and it was really bad, but it was recoverable. The fear isn’t that it’s likely, but that it’s far from a non-zero chance, and there’s very little we can do about it. That uncertainty is scary when we’ve had a relatively good time in recent decades.
Will we see a sudden shift toward a state where you can get jailed or murdered for being a dissident? Maybe, but probably not.
Will we see an escalation of the wars involving Israel, such that we see a WWIII and/or the first nuclear strike since WWII? Maybe, but probably not.
Will we see economic collapse causing widespread hunger and homelessness that we haven’t seen since the Great Depression? Maybe, but probably not.
The only thing that’s really a guarantee is that we’re another four years away from dealing with climate change, and while that’s massive for humanity down the line, individuals currently living in the US are probably going to be mostly fine. Not to say nobody will be affected - hurricanes, floods, fires, and so on - but it won’t cause catastrophic failure of society in the near future.
Counterpoint (and please, I am literally begging you to talk me off this cliff): Trump didn’t know anything about being President the first time. I believe that he thought Presidents could do whatever they wanted. The team he had around him, while you can call them assholes and pieces of shit and every other name in the book, understood how the government and the Presidency worked and were able to reign him in.
All of those people are now gone and he will be surrounded by purely yes-men. He will promote the Generals who will be loyal to him, not the country or the Constitution. Couple that with the newfound Presidential immunity, and Trump has all but free reign to do whatever he wants. He will also appoint judges, like Aileen Cannon, who are loyal to him. Those judges, thanks to the Supreme Court overturning the Chevron deference, will now be the “experts” instead of federal agencies.
I do agree that there probably won’t be a sudden shift, but there will be a shift and we will feel it in almost every aspect of our life. He supposedly promised to put RFK Jr in charge of numerous health agencies and campaigned on getting rid of the Department of Education. And I very much recall at least two instances where he said this is the last election you’ll have to vote in. Is he going to find/create a way to suspend the 2028 election and stay in power? Who’s going to stop him?
And I very much recall at least two instances where he said this is the last election you’ll have to vote in. Is he going to find/create a way to suspend the 2028 election and stay in power? Who’s going to stop him?
That’s why I said it’s possible, I just don’t think it’s probable. People are loyal to Trump until they’re not. Nobody’s loyal to him because they like him or they think he’s a good guy, or because they think he’ll bring the country prosperity. They’re loyal because they think they can get something out of it. Most people aren’t in a position where they’re willing to give up literally everything to help this particular asshole become a dictator. Those that are are typically incompetent - see anything and everything related to stealing the 2020 election. They tried a LOT of things, but nothing came even close to working.
So they’ll try again, and I don’t think anybody’s doubting that. And I don’t think our institutions are particularly strong, but they’re probably strong enough to stop that kind of incompetence from leading to a dictatorship.
On top of what you just mentioned, rather than Trump surrounding himself with incompetent toadies and yes-men, I think a lot of smarter, more powerful, and more dangerous people have taken the last 4 years to worm their way into his ranks.
He’s established himself as a useful idiot. During his first 4 years we saw the idiot part glaringly. It was scary and embarrassing, but we scraped by and experienced a few years of relatively boring politics. My big worry is that we’ll see the useful part exploited much more effectively this time around.
Trump started with either incompetent yes men who didn’t know how to govern or competent yes men who tried controlling the damage that the President caused.
You now have a group of coordinated people who see Trump as willing to agree with whatever as long as he looks good enough.
We saw what Trump did last time he was in office, and it was really bad, but it was recoverable.
Except putting people in cages at the border and separating children from families. Many families still have not been reunited.
Except the million people that died from Covid-19 due to the government putting the economy over human lives.
Except the stuffing of judicial positions, including the supreme court, that same court that basically made him a king and free from any consequences from all the laws he broke.
Except for our air, land, food and water becoming more toxic and polluted due to Trump’s rollback of EPA protections.
Except all the pregnant women who are dying or forced to carry their rapist’s baby due to that packed court overturning roe v wade.
Except the people of color who rebelled and rioted during the george floyd protests but then the government showed up in unmarked vans and took people away, while the police shot more innocent people and busted heads, and almost nothing changed for the better regarding police violence.
Except the trans people who are now illegal in the state of Florida for having a driver’s license that matches their gender identity, or the bounty on trans people in a town in Texas, or the governor of Texas trying to get lists of trans people to hunt down and prosecute. Or insurance companies refusing to cover trans-related healthcare. Or trans people being shunned by their peers and excluded from sports. Or the violence against LGBTQ people that’s doubled in the last year. All enabled and emboldened by Trump and Trumpism.
I haven’t recovered from any of this shit.
With or without Trump, the new normal is fascism in America. Every american needs to fight every bad policy, every bad law, every bad decision, every threat – every day – until there are no more fascists in power.
Let me be clear here. If we have a global nuclear war, that’s not recoverable, because every human on earth will be dead. If we enter a fascist dictatorship with today’s technology, that may not be recoverable, because we may see the permanent end of anything resembling a democracy.
I’m not saying there weren’t horrific atrocities committed during Trump’s reign. What I’m saying is that so far, there’s a chance future generations can live better lives.
The truth is it’s unlikely anything historically big is going to happen in the US. We saw what Trump did last time he was in office, and it was really bad, but it was recoverable. The fear isn’t that it’s likely, but that it’s far from a non-zero chance, and there’s very little we can do about it. That uncertainty is scary when we’ve had a relatively good time in recent decades.
Will we see a sudden shift toward a state where you can get jailed or murdered for being a dissident? Maybe, but probably not.
Will we see an escalation of the wars involving Israel, such that we see a WWIII and/or the first nuclear strike since WWII? Maybe, but probably not.
Will we see economic collapse causing widespread hunger and homelessness that we haven’t seen since the Great Depression? Maybe, but probably not.
The only thing that’s really a guarantee is that we’re another four years away from dealing with climate change, and while that’s massive for humanity down the line, individuals currently living in the US are probably going to be mostly fine. Not to say nobody will be affected - hurricanes, floods, fires, and so on - but it won’t cause catastrophic failure of society in the near future.
Counterpoint (and please, I am literally begging you to talk me off this cliff): Trump didn’t know anything about being President the first time. I believe that he thought Presidents could do whatever they wanted. The team he had around him, while you can call them assholes and pieces of shit and every other name in the book, understood how the government and the Presidency worked and were able to reign him in.
All of those people are now gone and he will be surrounded by purely yes-men. He will promote the Generals who will be loyal to him, not the country or the Constitution. Couple that with the newfound Presidential immunity, and Trump has all but free reign to do whatever he wants. He will also appoint judges, like Aileen Cannon, who are loyal to him. Those judges, thanks to the Supreme Court overturning the Chevron deference, will now be the “experts” instead of federal agencies.
I do agree that there probably won’t be a sudden shift, but there will be a shift and we will feel it in almost every aspect of our life. He supposedly promised to put RFK Jr in charge of numerous health agencies and campaigned on getting rid of the Department of Education. And I very much recall at least two instances where he said this is the last election you’ll have to vote in. Is he going to find/create a way to suspend the 2028 election and stay in power? Who’s going to stop him?
That’s why I said it’s possible, I just don’t think it’s probable. People are loyal to Trump until they’re not. Nobody’s loyal to him because they like him or they think he’s a good guy, or because they think he’ll bring the country prosperity. They’re loyal because they think they can get something out of it. Most people aren’t in a position where they’re willing to give up literally everything to help this particular asshole become a dictator. Those that are are typically incompetent - see anything and everything related to stealing the 2020 election. They tried a LOT of things, but nothing came even close to working.
So they’ll try again, and I don’t think anybody’s doubting that. And I don’t think our institutions are particularly strong, but they’re probably strong enough to stop that kind of incompetence from leading to a dictatorship.
On top of what you just mentioned, rather than Trump surrounding himself with incompetent toadies and yes-men, I think a lot of smarter, more powerful, and more dangerous people have taken the last 4 years to worm their way into his ranks.
He’s established himself as a useful idiot. During his first 4 years we saw the idiot part glaringly. It was scary and embarrassing, but we scraped by and experienced a few years of relatively boring politics. My big worry is that we’ll see the useful part exploited much more effectively this time around.
It is worse.
Trump started with either incompetent yes men who didn’t know how to govern or competent yes men who tried controlling the damage that the President caused.
You now have a group of coordinated people who see Trump as willing to agree with whatever as long as he looks good enough.
Finally a level-headed take. The world isn’t ending overnight, it’ll just get shittier
Except putting people in cages at the border and separating children from families. Many families still have not been reunited.
Except the million people that died from Covid-19 due to the government putting the economy over human lives.
Except the stuffing of judicial positions, including the supreme court, that same court that basically made him a king and free from any consequences from all the laws he broke.
Except for our air, land, food and water becoming more toxic and polluted due to Trump’s rollback of EPA protections.
Except all the pregnant women who are dying or forced to carry their rapist’s baby due to that packed court overturning roe v wade.
Except the people of color who rebelled and rioted during the george floyd protests but then the government showed up in unmarked vans and took people away, while the police shot more innocent people and busted heads, and almost nothing changed for the better regarding police violence.
Except the trans people who are now illegal in the state of Florida for having a driver’s license that matches their gender identity, or the bounty on trans people in a town in Texas, or the governor of Texas trying to get lists of trans people to hunt down and prosecute. Or insurance companies refusing to cover trans-related healthcare. Or trans people being shunned by their peers and excluded from sports. Or the violence against LGBTQ people that’s doubled in the last year. All enabled and emboldened by Trump and Trumpism.
I haven’t recovered from any of this shit.
With or without Trump, the new normal is fascism in America. Every american needs to fight every bad policy, every bad law, every bad decision, every threat – every day – until there are no more fascists in power.
Let me be clear here. If we have a global nuclear war, that’s not recoverable, because every human on earth will be dead. If we enter a fascist dictatorship with today’s technology, that may not be recoverable, because we may see the permanent end of anything resembling a democracy.
I’m not saying there weren’t horrific atrocities committed during Trump’s reign. What I’m saying is that so far, there’s a chance future generations can live better lives.