Asking as someone from the other side of the planet.
From the things I saw about the US election, the Dems were the side with plans for the economy - minimum wage adjustments, unions, taxing the rich, etc. The Republicans didn’t seem to have any concrete plans. At least, this is what I saw.
I don’t doubt Bernie Sanders though - he seems like a straight truth teller. But what am I missing?
Democrats didn’t campaign on their economic plans. They dove deep into MURICAN PRIDE, fighting against dictators and drug cartels, and continuing the work of the Biden Administration. They played advertisements like THIS on TV in September. They campaigned in states that they lost in by trying to appeal to Republicans.
Less democrats total voted this year than 2020.
But yes, you’re right to think that Republicans are worse for the economy in every way.
In their defense you would think just being against fascism might be enough. Turns out it isn’t.
That’s been the case since '16. Things need to change at the DNC because maga sure as shit aren’t going away.
I lived in a small town that literally didn’t believe COVID was real. During the pandemic, rarely anyone was masked up and then they got extra racist to a poor Chinese family and their restaurant.
These simple motherfuckers don’t see or understand fascism. They didn’t even see what they did to the restaurant as racist. These dumb hicks vote on gas prices and how much toilet paper cost.
“We are against the big bad fsscist guy! But we still like to do fascism abroad, do not worry guys!” It’s not a particularly powerful statement to the antifascist, nor to the fascists
And the rightwards pivot chasing the “regretful Trump voter” and that stellar Cheney endorsement.
Republicans voted GOP just like they always did. People who wanted anything resembling change stayed home. Unfortunately they’re going to get that change…
I voted Harris, but the Democrats need to abandon neo liberalism and embrace economic populism. People need affordable housing, healthcare, affordable healthy food, and a plan for the climate that doesn’t involve mass extinction.
That being said, these people won’t live long enough to see the worst of it. I hope that I don’t. I don’t have children, but I imagine that if you’re under 35 right now, you’re going to live long enough to see the water wars.
I voted Harris, but the Democrats need to abandon neo liberalism and embrace economic populism. People need affordable housing, healthcare, affordable healthy food, and a plan for the climate that doesn’t involve mass extinction.
She did do this. It didn’t resonate. Who knows what will get through in 4 years. Because who knows where this train is going. They need the house and congress to make real moves.
There won’t be another real election.
Neither side has been willing to change, or even talk about, the shift of wealth that has left most people barely able to get by. Working people get less and less reward for their efforts and the difference all goes to the owners. I think that is at least one aspect of Bernie’s complaint about the Democrats.
It’s hard to explain. A lot of it is about vibes and focus over the last several years.
- There’s a popular suspicion that, rather than fixing issues, Dems allowed them to persist so they could campaign on them during an election year.
- Dems’ platform in 2016 was: Hillary’s more competent. In 2020: Trump’s a menace. In 2024: Trump’s a menace. Meanwhile, people cared more about putting food on the table, not dying of the plague, and war crimes. Sure, welfare was part of Dems plans and platform, but it weren’t the core message.
- Related to #2, people felt unheard, ignored, and taken for granted. We’ve been losing faith in a 2-party system, where neither side has to be good, they just have to threaten that the other side is worse. Well, wehn people feel they have nothing to lose, they put a bull in the china shop and hope they wind up on top when the dust settles.
Bernie’s being a bit harsh in saying Dems didn’t try. Republicans blocked their efforts. But there’s also a feeling that they didn’t care all that much. At the end of the day, they’re career politicians, padding their pockets with corporate donations while demanding starving citizens vote for them because the other guy would be somewhat less palatable. And I guess Trump’s honesty about being apathetic and money-grubbing is more appealing than Dems’ feigned innocence and solidarity.
It’s not hard to explain. It’s not about vibes. The DNC is pro-corporate, which means they’re anti-worker. They push few policies that benefit the average person.
Take the housing plan, for example. Raise the limit on the tax break for first-time home owners. Is that good? Sure it’s better than nothing, but if a home that used to cost $200K now costs $800K, an extra $30K won’t make it affordable. But more money might help the banks a little bit. Or take the federal minimum wage. It should be $25, but it’s not, because the DNC just doesn’t care, and they never will.
There are two components to this question. Did many in the working class feel that Democrats had abandoned them? And is Trump’s economic policy actually better for the working class than Harris’s? I think the answers are “yes” and “probably no”. However, voters don’t listen to economists. If they’re not happy with the status quo, they vote for disrupting the status quo even if experts tell them that that’s a bad idea.
I suppose Sanders thinks that the working class would have supported a Democratic candidate who proposed a leftward (as opposed to Trump’s rightward) disruption. My guess is that that isn’t true and socialism is still a dirty word in America, but who knows?
However, voters don’t listen to economists. If they’re not happy with the status quo, they vote for disrupting the status quo even if experts tell them that that’s a bad idea.
Also see: Brexit.
Sadly it does not stop them whining about the consequences of their poor decision-making.
If you ask Americans about socialist policies without mentioning parties or ideology, then they overwhelmingly support them. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Plans are not actions. Sanders is talking about what the Democratic party has done (or rather what they’ve failed to do) not what they promised to do. Words are worthless without action.
I think of Sanders as like a well-meaning version of Trump. He tells people simple, good-sounding things they want to hear. I trust that he truly cares about the working class, but his ideas are probably too big and vague for there to be a path to actually implement them in any Congress of this era. He’s aware of his recent popularity and maybe a little bitter that he hasn’t gotten much out of it. He’s only a Democrat himself to the extent he can gain more from calling himself that than an independent, so with little to lose at this point in his career he’s lashing out while he can win points kicking the Democrats.
Simple, good-sounding things they want to hear is what wins elections these days.
Sadly, it only works if you’re selling hate and fear.
As most of politics, it’s sadly less about actual plans than it is about messaging through catchy soundbites - something the Rs definitely do better. (none that they’d act on any of it) Ds have spent a whole lot of time appealing to constituencies that aren’t the working class, with messaging that doesn’t work for them.
But it’s not just that: Ds have materially failed the working class. They can screech all the want about “the economy” having gotten better under Biden, they’re talking about the stock market, which is entirely immaterial to people who can’t even save. What is material to them is “non-core” inflation (aka food and gas - it really takes an economist to come up with such a stupid label), which has gone up real bad. And many still remember Obama as having betrayed them by bailing out the banks on their backs, and working hard to save all that rot as status quo.
Yes, D policy would very obviously be better (long term), but a whole lot of working class voters don’t trust that to be the case.
I think what Bernie is saying is that for decades Dems have paid lip service to working class concerns while not actually doing much. In reality Dems have been much more beholden to corporate interests.
By the time these plans came out, too many working class folk were already disenfranchised. They saw a party that was vocal about social issues that frankly were not high on the list of priorities for most of them. They were more concerned that inflation was out of control and they could not afford basic expenses. Sure Trump was racist but at least prices were lower when he was in office, or so they would conclude. If he could bring prices down, they would go with him.
Basically Dems were just out of touch with the most important part of their base until it was too late.
I can understand being frustrated and angry with the Democrats for essentially being a status quo party that favors their corporate benefactors.
What boggles my mind is thinking that voting Republican would make any of that better, when in fact it seems pretty clear that it is going to make everything much, much worse.
Maybe so, but if it’s guaranteed shittiness vs. possible improvement, obviously people will make their own decisions about gambling.
I think it’s a bad gamble, but I understand it. And also, one major point is that many people think “it’s going to suck either way, fuck it, I’m staying home”.
This is very much on point I have always seen America as as really having four parties masquerading as two. Progressives , corporate Left , Corporate Right, and zealots and bigots.
The problem is the Corporate Left and corporate Right have been edging Progressives and the zealots and bigots on single issues but never following through as they wouldn’t have anything to campaign on. Trump was too stupid to realize this but when he killed Roe (not to be crass but ) he finely let the zealots and bigots cum and they fell in love.
With Progressives that happened with Obama but he just kept edging us never truly giving what we need other than it could be worse. Instead of single-payer Health we got a Republican idea for healthcare.
Every Progressive will tell you that the electoral system is broken but do we ever get Democrats running on election reform. No because both Corporate Left and Corporate Right don’t want that. The country is divided up like cable companies Charter gets the northern states and Comcast gets the southern states. But they didn’t see musk going over their heads with StarLink fucking up the arrangement.
The DNC does not have the peoples’ best interests in mind. Not to say they aren’t the same as the GOP (not by a wide margin), but they are the political extension of their corporate donors. This is the reason why they don’t push forward with universal healthcare, why they’re cowards regarding Israel, and why not much meaningful legislation makes it through the gamut that puts the populace first. This is what conservative voters are done with, and many Democrats are fed up with as well. The GOP, for all their evil faults, actually do execute on the issues that their base cares about, though those action tend to be reprehensible.
Any mainstream Democrat candidate will NOT put forth or affirmatively vote for legislation or policy that goes against their donors’ wishes. The GOP are the same way, but at least they’re up front about it. But it hasn’t been just this election cycle, they’ve been this way for a long time. This is why many call them spineless, but it’s not about that; they aren’t paid to represent the people, they paid to pretend to care while preserving the status quo (their corporate “donations” far outweigh their salaries for the “right” politicians). Everyone and their mom has been screaming corporate greed for the last four years, yet not a single political committee has put forth an honest effort to go after corporations for price gouging, because they’d lose their campaign donations, similar to how any candidate that goes against Israel would get financially throttled.
Basically Dems were just out of touch with the most important part of their base until it was too late.
Which is their consistent problem every election when the prior Republican admin hasn’t made a catastrophic fuck-up.
You can’t run on the “we’re pro labor” platform and expect the working class to show up for you when your pro labor stance hasn’t put money directly into working class pockets since the 1970s or 1980s.
Where are the big public works programs? Where’s the massive government spending that employed millions? That’s why labor showed up for Democrats in the 1900s, when there were huge govt contracts that employed organized labor, and it’s no surprise at all that when Democrats abandoned those policies labor stopped being reliable supporters.
You want to run a successful campaign? Talk about the massive public spending that employed hundreds of thousands during your prior admin. Talk jobs. Talk improved standard of living. Talk taxing corporations to pay for those things and voters will hand you a landslide. Democrats are so afraid of taxing corporations to pay for social spending that directly recruits voters to their cause that they’re seen as corporate stooges. And honestly, they kinda are at this point.
From the things I saw about the US election, the Dems were the side with plans for the economy - minimum wage adjustments, unions, taxing the rich, etc
The dems are in power now, they didn’t do those things, so nobody believed they’d actually do it if they were elected again.
Additionally, parading around endorsements from Dick and Liz Cheney, and promising to build a border wall, tax breaks for small businesses, and other republican policies from 2016 didn’t help the perception that the dems weren’t going to help people.
Ah, but didn’t Biden throw the train union under the bus? I think he did. And neither Biden nor Obama pushed to raise the minimum wage to a living wage, and also to key it to the cost of living.
Even though Biden’s regulators did take some positive action, a lot of that was this calendar year. Why did he wait so long? A cynic would say he didn’t believe in what he was doing, but even a non-cynic would say that it was a bad way to campaign, because you can’t erase 3 years of incompetence with 1 year of regulation.
look at how Biden talked about the economy.
After stabilizing from COVID, it took him 2 or 3 years to figure out and even acknowledge that inflation is killing people’s financial outlook.
The first mention of that at all was at the NATO thing right before he dropped out.
Sure, he was handed an absolute shit show by Trump; but the messaging was incredibly tone deaf about it.
Same tone deaf manner as the “we’re going to be okay” comment earlier. We don’t all have millions and 246k pension, free health care and 24/7 protection. We’re not okay now, and it’s not going to be fine.
That’s probably the perception. Democrats have been in power for 4 years, things didn’t get better for a lot of people and then they say to vote for them for more of the same. Surprisingly that doesn’t help with voter enthusiasm. They’ll have more chance next time with messaging things won’t get worse with them after Trump mishandled stuff.
What you’re missing is that all those plans you mentioned, while correct, were (a) just ‘plans’ with no follow-through to back them up and (b) too little, too late even if they were implemented.
- The “fight for $15” (minimum wage increase) has been going on for so long with zero [Federal] success that, due to inflation, it ought to be renamed “fight for $30” by now.
- The lip service given in supporting unions was belied by how Biden fucked over the railroad workers.
- Inequality (the gap between the working class and the 1%) is continuing to spiral out of control and the Democrats had very little to say about stopping it. It’s important to remember that “tax the rich” was only supported by the progressive subset of the Democratic Party.
- We need zoning reform coupled with switching from property tax to land-value tax, to stop enabling the hoarding of underdeveloped property by protecting it from market forces (i.e. real reforms to make housing affordable again).
- We also need things like vigorous enforcement of anti-trust law and consumer protection laws, so that the public feels (and is) less exploited by corporations.
Excellent write up, I donated to Feed the Children in your name.
The “fight for $15” (minimum wage increase) has been going on for so long with zero [Federal] success that, due to inflation, it ought to be renamed “fight for $30” by now.
And the side that won has been fighting the minimum wage hike for “so long”. Who’s the enemy of the working class again?
The lip service given in supporting unions was belied by how Biden fucked over the railroad workers.
This is a lie that has been repeated time and time again. He fast followed the end of the strike with helping the workers get exactly what they wanted. He aided their negotiations AND got our supply lines back on line.
Inequality (the gap between the working class and the 1%) is continuing to spiral out of control and the Democrats had very little to say about stopping it. It’s important to remember that “tax the rich” was only supported by the progressive subset of the Democratic Party.
Again, which party is it giving the mega wealthy tax breaks? Who is appointing billionaires to run the government? Who controlled the House and prevented tax reform from going through?
We need zoning reform coupled with switching from property tax to land-value tax, to stop enabling the hoarding of underdeveloped property by protecting it from market forces (i.e. real reforms to make housing affordable again).
That is state level reform. Obviously.
We also need things like vigorous enforcement of anti-trust law and consumer protection laws, so that the public feels (and is) less exploited by corporations.
No argument there, but which party is constantly eroding our current regulations that protect consumers and workers?
The lip service given in supporting unions was belied by how Biden fucked over the railroad workers.
This is a lie that has been repeated time and time again. He fast followed the end of the strike with helping the workers get exactly what they wanted. He aided their negotiations AND got our supply lines back on line.
Nope, I did my homework on that one before posting it. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_railroad_labor_dispute :
In September 2022, U.S. Senators Richard Burr and Roger Wicker introduced a bill that would have required labor unions to agree to the terms proposed by the Presidential Emergency Board, to prevent a strike. It was blocked by Senator Bernie Sanders, who noted that freight rail workers receive a “grand total of zero sick days” while railroad companies made significant profits. In the House of Representatives, Speaker Nancy Pelosi said, “We’d rather see negotiations prevail so there’s no need for any actions from Congress.”
In late November, after some unions had rejected the agreement, Biden asked Congress to pass the agreement into law. On November 30, the House of Representatives passed the existing tentative agreement along with an amended version that would require railroad employers to ensure 7 days paid sick leave. On December 1, the Senate passed the tentative agreement with only 1 day of sick leave. President Joe Biden signed the legislation into law on December 2. The Biden administration’s intervention in the dispute was condemned by over 500 labor historians in an open letter to Joe Biden and Secretary of Labor Marty Walsh.
Biden may not have aggressively attacked and ruined the railroad workers the way Reagan did with the air traffic controllers, but he definitely forced them to take less than they would’ve gotten if they’d been allowed to strike.
I get what you are saying but it still isn’t the complete story. Yes he didn’t let them shut down a major pillar of our economy and at that time forced them to take an agreement that was basically everything they wanted except for off time. But his admin spent the months after getting those concessions from the railroads. The IBEW even thanked the admin for their work. He supported many other labor unions right to strike without interference.
https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid
- Still less than half the sick days the workers originally demanded, and deserved.
- The damage to Biden’s reputation re: supporting the working class was already done.
Well, you failed your homework assignment, then.
Further down your own Wikipedia article
In February 2023, CSX announced a deal to provide four days of paid sick leave annually, plus the option of converting three personal days into additional paid sick time with two unions.
Citation from your own linked article
Which also clearly states that the original agreement that included 7 days was shot down by Republican senators, which is why the 1 sick day had to be the first iteration. And also includes details on how Biden’s administration continuing pressure on the railroad companies that led to 7 days paid sick leave for two unions 3 months later, and then ultimately yielded 7 sick days for the majority of railroad union workers by half a year later.
But yeah, keep intentionally misrepresenting recent history. It helped elect the guy who is so anti worker that he habitually stiffs his own workers of overtime, or refuses to pay them at all.
7 isn’t 15, which is what the workers were initially going to strike for (and deserved).
More to the point, the damage to Biden’s reputation re: supporting the working class was already done. If he really wanted to show the working class he had their backs – which, again, is THE thing that’s absolutely necessary to combat fascist populism – would’ve been to respond to the Republican obstruction by saying “fuck that, if you won’t give them what they deserve I’ll support the damn strike!”
But yeah, keep intentionally misrepresenting recent history. It helped elect the guy who is so anti worker that he habitually stiffs his own workers of overtime, or refuses to pay them at all.
What in the time travel bullshit is this? You do understand that being honest about Biden’s fuck-ups now can’t do any more damage – and moreover, is necessary if there’s any hope to do better next time – right? If you’re going to accuse me of saying this stuff previously (when it would’ve been damaging), you’d better fucking bring receipts. Check my comment history. I’ll wait.
And then you can fucking apologize!
7 isn’t 15, which is what the workers were initially going to strike for (and deserved).
Have you ever heard of negotiating? You don’t start at the price you’d be happy with. The Unions have stated they’re happy with the result, why aren’t you?
You do understand that being honest about Biden’s fuck-ups now can’t do any more damage
What fuck up? Biden averted a major breakdown in supply chain, AND got the workers what they wanted. That’s a win, despite the repeated attempts at framing it as a failure.
And no, I’m not going to spend a day digging through your history. If you’re repeating this gross misrepresentation of facts now, chances are high that you have before.
What fuck up? Biden averted a major breakdown in supply chain, AND got the workers what they wanted. That’s a win, despite the repeated attempts at framing it as a failure.
What part of “it, and shit like it, cost Harris the election” do you not understand? It doesn’t matter that the workers eventually got what they wanted, quietly and after the fact, when the impression voters got was that Biden – and by association, Harris – was perfectly happy to collude with the Republicans to suppress their right to strike.
And no, I’m not going to spend a day digging through your history. If you’re repeating this gross misrepresentation of facts now, chances are high that you have before.
You’re literally refusing to check your own facts and then making baseless accusations about me. Pure hypocrisy.
Uh huh. So you do your “homework” and call out that Biden forced the workers to take 1 day of sick leave instead of the 7 that they wanted (at that stage in the negotiations).
I present evidence that it was downgraded from 7 to 1 in the Senate because Republicans rejected 7.
I then present evidence that Biden’s administration leaned on the railroad companies until they in fact gave the majority of railworkers 7 sick days. With quotes on the Union heads attributing those gains to the Biden administration.
And then suddenly 7 days isn’t good enough to call that a “win” in your opinion.
And I’m the hypocrite.
Again, which party is it giving the mega wealthy tax breaks?
But that’s rather the point here, isn’t it? So much Democrat rhetoric and support comes across as, “they’re worse so you have to like us.” Not exactly inspiring to people whose livelihoods are struggling.
The short of it is that “things are going fine” messaging doesn’t work when things decidedly aren’t going fine. When asked about the economy she said she wouldn’t do much different from Biden. And yet she wouldn’t even confirm or deny when asked whether she would keep Lina Khan. The DNC’s messaging screamed "we’re dishonest corporate stooges who won’t give straight answers ", because they are and also incompetent. In the dismal state of the American economy today do you think that would get votes?
If you are asked where you differ from a whildly unpopular president in a time where all normal Americans are hurting bad, and you answer “nowhere”.
And your points on the economy are essentially, the economy is booming…
You disqualify yourself, as we saw.
People did not want more of the same or small incremental change. And apparently the worry some have about fascism taking over is not believed by many… politicians say a lot… but they won’t do that.
Time will tell.
I didn’t want to bother making another account to like this comment twice so I’m just writing this to say, ‘This’.
They are now saying, we got the mandate, we gotta do it. I even heard a rep senator say that they will go after companies employing illegals because then they will go home.
Get ready, because this will cripple agriculture and other sectors.
Also, the IRS knows who employs illegals… easily. They know how much revenues companies make per employee from massive datasets, they can easily point out the companies that over earn compared to their employee numbers in a specific sector. Same as they can easily determine someone’s income from their yacht, house or jet size.
In the Netherlands they for example audit hair salons if their purchase of hairspray (or other consumables) does not line up with their listed revenue… they know the revenue per bottle of hairspray… Or at least the range it should be in.
where you differ from a whildly unpopular president… and you answer “nowhere”.
I watched the beginning of the Trump-Harris debate. When Harris was asked why she and Biden kept Trump’s trade tariffs (after just saying how bad new ones would be), she gave no answer and went back to bashing Trump.
And your points on the economy are essentially, the economy is booming…
I felt a lot of disconnect between the “Biden is the greatest” and “America is suffering” rhetoric in the lead up to the election.
the worry some have about fascism taking over is not believed by many… politicians say a lot…
Not American here, but I still have much hope that the fate of America is in the hands of her people. My biggest fear at Trump’s election is if it inspires more of the nation to hate and anger - because the president is your leader in that way.
But you see, Trump won because a lot of people voted for him. If the American people can find a new love for the poor, for fairness between worker and manager, for people who look and act differently: then I have great hope for the nation’s recovery.
The dems gaslit the public on inflation. They abandoned the working class decades ago. The economy only got better for the out to brunch professional managerial class liberals while the rest of us suffered.
Most importantly, the democrats haven’t run a competitive primary since 2008, they anointed Harris as their candidate without a single vote being cast for her and then they’re shocked pikachu face when she lost. The fact that democrat operatives make so much money despite being so utterly incompetent that one wonders if it’s malicious it blows the mind.
Well, Controlled Opposition is a lucrative field, friend. You just won’t find it on Indeed.
Identity politics, gun control, immigration, lagging economic recovery for labor, inflation and a distinct lack of ability to formulate a simple message. Sank Dems with the working class.
Policies are nice but most Americans don’t have a clue and don’t research anything.
Kamala spouted a bunch of policies and no message of hope. Trump had a bunch of headline grabbing antics and one liners. Guess which one wins with most Americans.
Identity politics? That’s a republican issue. They bring it up. The most democrats do is block, but all the punches are thrown by the right in campaigns. I didn’t even hear a gun control proposal this round.
Did you happen to visit Kamala’s website during the election. She listed who she represented…. Black males, Latino Males, no mention of working class white peoples.
That is identity politics. If you wonder why white women voted for Trump, they did it for their sons who aren’t mentioned at all.
Both Kamala and Biden championed another assault weapons ban.
Think of this from his perspective: the Democrats put their faith in the idea that money wins elections, and if you can out-raise your opponent the votes will follow. Twice they conspired against Bernie in the primaries because of his platform: tackling wealth inequality, progressive tax reform, and overturning Citizens United v. FEC. They chose corporate interests over the working class because they valued money more than votes.
What is the incentive for the democratic party to ever chase votes rather than money?
If you get voted into power, lobbyists give you even more money.
You only get money if you do what the lobbyists (not the voters) want.
