- cross-posted to:
- usa@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- usa@lemmy.ml
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Well, if there was any doubt there is one law for the rich & well connected, and an entirely different law for the ‘plebes’, this put that deep in the ground…
Someone should go rip that blindfold off of any ‘Blind Justice’ statues, it is just gaslighting at this point.
This is Smith seeing his hands tied because Trump ran out the clock and then enough assholes put him back in office where the Supreme Court and DOJ policy blocks him from being prosecuted for [at least] the next 4 years. It also states that come January 2029 he can refile charges on a then dementia ravaged 82 year old man.
Lmao, thinking its still going to be legal to investigate trump in 4 years
Likely not, but what other choice is there? The best bet at this time is to hope we can wrestle the presidency back from Trump in 2028, and in January 2029 if he has enough mental awareness to legally stand trial then the DOJ can recharge and try him.
Remember when rational people in 2020 said Biden was too old and did t have it in him to fight fascism?
And the DNC said the president doesn’t matter (but still had to be Biden) it was about the people they appoint.
Well, Bidens picks were Smith and Garland, and a bunch of other people who couldn’t get shit accomplished.
Everyone needs to remember how Biden worked out, because in four years the DNC will want to run someone just like him again. And if they do we’re fucked
An election in four years … I like your optimism and I hope you are right.
If it makes you feel any better, you’ll likely live long for the DNC to say the same thing against the next 5 Republicans, and maybe even a Dem candidate will get a death bed endorsement from Trump while Eric Trump goes on a rally your with the Dem candidate talking about how much the Republicans have lost their way since 2016…
Like, after Biden stepped down I told myself I’d vote D matter who like I always have. Because Biden had no shot in hell, and the DNC actually listened and I wanted to communicate that’s all we’ve been begging for.
But I remember GW, I remember Dick Cheney was the real problem and Lil Bush was just a distraction.
But Kamala still trotted Liz Cheney around, acted like her dad isn’t the biggest US war criminal in modern history, and tried to act like Trump was solitarily the one responsible. I still voted for her. But it ended up being harder than voting Hillary.
trump can drop dead as I’m typing this and not a damn thing will change.
I’ve lived through this series of events before. The vast majority of Americans have.
It’s going to suck and we’re going to lose ground, but there isn’t a cat wrangler alive that can get republicans to agree and work with themselves.
They’ll lose the House/Senate in two years. Maybe one, maybe both. But they won’t get anything accomplished and they do t have anyone else to blame to motivate their voters in midterms.
They’re going to have to eat that they got trump, the House, and Senate, and sure as shit aren’t going to fix what they told voters they’d fix.
Stop saying the fight is over because neo liberals didn’t get everything they wanted.
Start working on fighting our own party next primary so we have a chance of getting what America needs. If another neoliberal gets into the general, hold your nose and hope enough other people do too to mitigate damage.
Regardless of anything that happens, giving up is never going to work.
Fight every fight like it’s the last, and no matter what happens treat the next one the same. This is what fighting fascism actually looks like, not voting once every four years.
Liz Cheney has absolutely nothing to do with Harris losing. According to the polls and everyone I know that voted and even those that didn’t vote.
the people that voted for Harris aren’t relevant to the major reasons why Harris lost.
I’m not referring to the people that voted for Harris
“According to the polls and everyone I know that voted.”
Is this you because I think I’m missing your point?
I know people that didn’t vote for Harris and people that didn’t vote. According to them Cheney played no part in their decision.
No, but being the type of Democrat that would go on tour with Cheney is exactly the reason she lost.
User name checks out. Thanks for giving a fuck and not posting the same endless whining and bad takes I’ve seen so much of.
I am a perpetual optimist…
And when looking back at the last 8 years, at least 2016-2020 when the president was fucking up, everyone I’d run into tended to agree.
Bidens term though when I was upset about anything, I’d either get gaslight that it’s not a problem or the only people agreeing with me never looked past the letter next to Biden’s name when deciding if they should complain about what he was doing.
So I’m still gonna be complaining about the same shit, I’ll still verbalize what I think will work…
But in the next four years people are going to act like I’ve done a 180, because the concept of actually holding both parties to an equal standard is that unheard of in America today. People like me still exist, it’s just a whole hell of a lot of us had their final straw when Dems closed rank to protect Bill Clinton lying under oath.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/did-clinton-lie-under-oath/
The 1/3 of the country that doesn’t vote aren’t in the middle of our two parties on any spectrum. They’re looking at the parties on a measure of integrity and trustworthiness. And found both lacking.
Republicans aren’t going to run someone that meets that standard, so all Dems have to do to win a presidential election is put up the only candidate who meets that standard in a general election. Stop focusing on “better than Republicans” and focus on “good enough for our voters”.
Yelling at them to vote D doesn’t work, so why not trying to give them what they want? It’s better for all of us anyways.
The 1/3 of the country that doesn’t vote aren’t in the middle of our two parties on any spectrum. They’re looking at the parties on a measure of integrity and trustworthiness. And found both lacking.
You claim non voters saw the felon Trump and Harris and said to themselves “both sides are the same, I’m not voting”?!
This reeks of republican talking point.
Bullshit. The DNC said nothing. Biden wiped the floor with every other candidate in that primary fair and square. Maybe blame the voters or rather the people who couldn’t be assed to come out.
Maybe blame the voters or rather the people who couldn’t be assed to come out.
Absolutely this.
Old-ass biden wins primaries because the only people who could be bothered to vote in ANY election that isn’t just the general election, are other old people. They vote for the people most like them, fellow old people…
If you are told to vote between a rock and four piles of fresh dog poop you are obviously going to vote for the rock.
The DNC is at fault for making the voters choose between a rock and four piles of fresh dog poop.
Why is it that every time Trump gets away with corruption you try to turn it into FUD towards democrats?
It’s chronic with that user. The Boost app allows you to tag usernames and it’s very helpful for tracking bad faith accounts.
Ya, it’s been pretty obvious for a while and I don’t even use boost or keep track.
Literally name one thing that points to a bad faith argument here. Is anything critical of the party ‘propaganda’ now? That sure sounds familiar to a certain other party’s rhetoric.
How can you witness the DNC lose two elections and barely win another by razor-thin margins during a time of unprecedented turmoil and think the party is doing well or above reproach?
All you’re doing here is an ad hominem against the messenger and failing to give a single reason why you think their argument is wrong.
Trump got away with corruption because the DNC dragged their feet on pursuing charges until the 11th hour and now it’s too late. That seems like a damn good reason to criticize the people leading the party.
The DNC isn’t the DOJ. Trump was successful at delaying almost all of his trials at no fault to the DOJ. I repeat:
At Trump’s request, judge delays immunity filing in Jan. 6 prosecution
You’re obviously being disingenuous by using Trumps success to spread FUD
The head of the DOJ is appointed by the president though and they waited until a little over a year ago in August '23, after he won the RNC nomination, right in the ramp up into the election to charge Trump. Most of the delays are related directly to this and his candidacy for president as no judge wants to directly meddle in the election.
Why didn’t they charge him in the nearly three years prior to that? They’d been prosecuting plenty of the January 6th participants during that time. Why not prosecute him for refusing to return all those top secret documents during that time? We had pictures, eye witnesses testifying that he had them in his bathroom, and admissions from Trump directly during that time.
You’re obviously being disingenuous by using Trumps success to spread FUD
How is that? You just admitted yourself “Trumps success” in avoiding any accountability, yet you call it “FUD” when people point out why he was successful in avoiding prosecution. How is this even FUD to begin with? The fact that you keep linking to the definition of it like it’s some obscure term makes me think you just learned about it or something. There’s no fear, uncertainty, or doubt that Trump will never be held accountable for any of this because we all just witnessed him get away with it.
Trump got his case delayed. The DOJ can’t just hold their own trial. If the trial is delayed by the judge the DOJ can’t have the trial. So it makes no sense for you to blame the DOJ but you still do.
There are certain accounts on lemmy that try to drum up hate for democrats by blaming them for Trumps actions. It’s been obvious to more than just me.
The case was delayed after they waited nearly two and a half years to charge him which put the trial too close to the election. Why are you completely glossing over this while talking about ‘drumming things up?’ You’re clearly trying to obfuscate the facts here.
Trump didn’t wait until August '23 to bring any indictments against himself. That was the decision of Merrick Garland who was appointed directly by Joe Biden in March of 2021.
Why are you pretending Trump hasn’t gotten away with many other crimes already?
Each time anyone tries to prosecute Trump he claims it’s a witch hunt.
Each time he gets away with it the public believes his narrative a little more.
This means the DOJ can’t just go after him recklessly. They have to build an air tight case against not just your average defendant, but Trump.
Otherwise they lose another case and Trump is empowered by it.
This is what has happened time and time again. But people like yourself are acting like you’ve been living under a rock this whole time by pretending it is easy to pin down Trump and being disingenuous by trying to pin the blame on the DOJ and the DNC for Trump getting away.
Do you really think you know more than the DoJ about this situation?
Because the DNC is not blameless, and while we can’t control Trump or his followers, the DNC is something we (should) have control over. Being critical of the things we have control over is literally the only way to improve them.
And for the record, DNC != Democrats. The person you are responding to is being critical of the DNC, not democrats. That is a very important distinction.
Also did you just link to the wiki article on FUD as though people might not know what you’re referring to?
You can’t lay that on Smith. He accomplished a lot. But, no surprise, a Trump judge derailed it.
. “This outcome is not based on the merits or strength of the case against the defendant.”
We know, but we also know that Trump and his sycophants will use the argument that Trump “won” and it was baseless, political persecution, etc.
The not prosecuting a sitting president is a shitty policy written to avoid baseless lawsuits and applied to help fascists rise to power.
Its a practical issue. Sure, you can can throw the president in jail. But they are still president. They can totally call the military to break them out.
The military and the secret service gave oaths the the constitution, not DOJ policy. In a functioning democracy they would force the president to surrender and to show up to court.
He can pardon himself.
Either that or JD Vance as Acting President can pardon him.
The way I see this, they are stopping the proceedings so Trump’s AG won’t be able to end them officially, so they might be able to resume in four years.
Why are you afraid to admit trump won? Can you still not see democrats lost the election? They were the ones we put our faith in and they came up short, again.
Let’s be clear here. The blame doesn’t go to the campaign. The blame doesn’t go to the voters. The blame is squarely on leadership for not leading. Which leadership? Any one with D after their name that wasn’t on the streets raising hell the last 4 years. Anyone with a D after their name who cashed their government funded check and never thought about how most Americans make fractions what they do and they can barely get by.
No this is a top down failure. The party wants so badly wants to be the GOP they will settle for letting the GOP win.
I don’t think the person you are responding to is talking about Trump winning the election like you are. Unless I am misunderstanding, it sounds like they are saying that Republicans will point to this case being dropped as a win and that they were right all along. In other words, they will say that the Democrats were just unfairly trying to prosecute Trump, and dropping the case proves they had no evidence (even though that isn’t why the case was dropped).
Bro what the hell are you talking about. This is about the outcome of the election subversion case (which was 2020), not the outcome of the election (2024).
Key detail: they’re not dropping it because they’re giving up, the judge dismissed it without prejudice, which means that in 4 years they can pick the case back up. Under a Trump DoJ the case would likely have ended with prejudice, closing it permanently.
Even more motivation for Trump to abolish term limits.
He can’t himself since it’s spelled out in the constitution in the 22nd amendment.
So tl;dr it would need 3/4 of the states to repeal that. More detail than that, but that’s what it boils down to.
he can’t
Why not? He couldn’t steal an election attemot a violent coup or bankrupt a casino either.
Who’s gonna stop him?
Who’s gonna stop him?
- All the states who are blue and/or prefer to not have a bumbling 82 year old wannabe dictator as president for a 3rd term.
- All the congress critters not living in MAGA-stan who value getting re-elected.
Yeah, they’ve all done a bang-up job over the last four years.
Yeah, they’ve all done a bang-up job over the last four years.
That’s a bit like saying because you found a hair in your soup - which you found bland and overpriced - that you want a shit sandwich instead.
I didn’t say I wanted the shit sandwich. I’m saying I don’t trust them to keep the shit sandwich away from my plate.
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How? Why?
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Do you not remember last time? And why do you think losing an election will keep a loyalist out of power?
1a. How: The law. Literally Trump “can’t” just say “I’m going to run again”. The constitution forbids it. Now I’m not saying that will stop all the states from putting him on the ballot, but it will stop many, and that’s enough to get any sane Republican screaming for an alternative. 1b. Why: The law. Republicans know perfectly well Trump is a shit-show, but they lacked the courage to say no to a 2nd term. A third term puts them into not-needing-a-spine-to-say-no territory. Many desperately want to get rid of him and that is their safe opportunity. 2. Of course I do. I also remember the attempted coup failed miserably. And anyway that is quite different from running in the primary.
1a the law, sane republicans
The Law Is Not A Magic Spell. It’s a set of agreements enforced by violence. All the enforcers are fanatical fascists. And the last sane republican I know of died in February 2012. He hadn’t voted for president this century. If those were still a thing; we wouldnt be in this position.
1b: the law, sane republicans
So, still not a magic spell. I’m afraid you dont know how cultists, social conformity, or sunk costs work. They’re going to have endorsed the horrible things that happen here. They can’t accept culpability for that. You know what they say;
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.Surely some revelation is at hand; Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?Or something.
2
The coup failed because hisbpeople were profoundly incompetent and mostly senile. You’ll notice the police and military dispatchers we suspiciously slow that day. It was just the poor rubes already on the ground there responding to this shit. The courts largely declined to ounish abuobe involved; all thd s um eho organized it got off clean, and even the worst of the nazis on the ground got milder sentences than any ive seen for juat being near someone who broke a window in 2020. What does any of this have to do with primaries? Why would they hold a primary?
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I really hope that’s the case. But if there’s one thing I’ve learnt, it’s that Trump can seemingly do whatever the fuck he wants.
I really hope that’s the case
It is. It’s in the constitution and barring civil war and a military take over of the government that amendment is not going away.
But if there’s one thing I’ve learnt, it’s that Trump can seemingly do whatever the fuck he wants.
Actually he can’t. He most definitely can bloviate and spew whatever the fuck he wants, but when it comes to actually doing I think his track record is quite poor. For the most part he counts on toadies to fall in line and do his bidding, mainly so they can take the blame if it goes south. That he will be term limited is, IMO, the saving grace for those useful idiots - they know they can get rid of him and they only need to kiss his ass another 4 years.
More than likely he’d just go the direction of Russia/Putin and run behind a candidate he endorses but then effectively take control after the puppet candidate wins.
Oh that? That meant consecutive terms. Trump can totally be president again in 2028. Just ask SCOTUS.
You are speculating that SCOTUS will let some challenge slide. But it’s the constitution and SCOTUS doesn’t get to change what it says just because they are corrupt.
“No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice”
Seems pretty crystal clear.
Laws are not magic spells, and all the people who enforce them are his creatures.
Just because we use the same rules for our violently enforced traditions of hierarchy and the physical constants of reality does not mean they’re actually the same thing.
Laws are not magic spells, and all the people who enforce them are his creatures.
Demonstrably not.
Just because we use the same rules for our violently enforced traditions of hierarchy and the physical constants of reality does not mean they’re actually the same thing.
You are either 14 and very profound or a newly-minted graduate student. 'Cause I have no idea what you are trying to say.
He cannot create something from nothing. He cannot act without an equal and opposite reaction. He cannot exceed the ideal speed of unimpeded light. He cannot be smaller than the Planck length. Try as he might; it simply cannot be done.
A person has to actively to stop him from doing all the rape murder and genocide his shitty little chest void desires. Nobody has. Are you going to?
I’m saying calling both these categories ‘laws’ is misleading.
SCOTUS has the final say on what the Constitution should mean right now. They can decide however they want. The only remedies are through the legislature (impeachment, constitutional amendments, increasing the size of the court). But if they decide something, that’s the law of the land even if it’s blatantly wrong.
SCOTUS has the final say on what the Constitution should mean right now. They can decide however they want.
Not entirely. There are actually limits and checks on SCOTUS power, including the restrictions on what cases they can hear, the ability of congress to change the make up of the court and terms of appointments as well as change it’s jurisdiction.
Now I grant it’s easy to throw up one’s hands and say “ah but that will never happen with a congress bowing and scraping to Trump” but I’d counter with two points: we can still gain majorities in the senate and house in 2026 and, crucially, if there’s one thing you can count on it’s the avaricious and rapacious nature of politicians.
I fully expect our entire country to slide into a deep recession and for there to be complete paralyzing chaos in the federal government over the next 4 years. That threatens the status quo, meaning congress critters ability to freely grift, make money off the stock market and remain in power. They won’t like that.
SCOTUS has already started ignoring things like standing. I mentioned that the main check on SCOTUS is the legislature. I don’t think Congress can get its shit together long enough to effect any real check. Last term they could barely elect a speaker and this term they have even slimmer majorities. Unless the midterms are a historically large blue wave, it’s not going to matter. If a handful of defectors can kill the change, it’s not happening.
A distinction without a difference
At least it’s a dismissal without prejudice which leaves the door open for charges to be brought back once Trump is no longer in office and as long as the statute of limitation hasn’t run out.
leaves the door open for charges to be brought back once Trump is no longer in office
Assuming his lard-ass lives that long.
You know how the courts love putting rich old white dudes behind bars, right?
Assuming of course we don’t end up with a Republican dictatorship after this presidency, then it’s all meaningless anyway.
A glimmer of hope, but at least, of the extremely limited options, this one leaves a shred of hope behind.
Still fucking awful and a complete condemnation of the justice system in the US, but POC in the States have known that for years, now it’s just whitey getting shown how fucking biased it is to privilege and wealth.
A lot of us whiteys already knew
I can’t say I’m feeling overly optimistic about anything worthwhile happening with this case after 9 years, when they failed to move forward in nearly 5
How is “less than 4” now “nearly 5”?
Does that really make a difference in their argument?
What “argument”? It’s just doomer moaning, using hyperbole to amplify their own defeatism. I’m just pointing out the bs.
It’s not “doomer moaning” to think that if they didn’t prosecute him in the four year period after his presidency that they won’t do it eight or twelve years after his presidency when he’s either dead from old age or well into his 80s.
That’s not defeatist it’s simply witnessing the actions of our current leadership and believing them. You can choose to believe their words instead, but there’s zero reason to when their actions (both past and current) directly contradict them.
It’s not “doomer moaning”
It is when they’re lying about the time that’s already passed. They’re clearly more interested in embellishing than being realistic.
Until Trump’s DOJ decides to re-dismiss with prejudice.
That can only be done if the case is presented again. You can’t dismiss something that doesn’t exist.
Get ready to find out that all laws are just made up and no one gives a shit if the other people with power let him do whatever he wants
You’re a teenager, aren’t you?
Who’s going to revive a 10 year old political case against an 83 year old that’s retiring from politics? In the US?
Lol he’s dead by then. Are we puting a dead person on trial?
Who is going to stop Trump from pardoning himself?
He cannot pardon himself on a dismissed case.
Again, who is going to stop him? The presidential pardon is wide reaching, and no one has ever tried to pardon themselves before so there’s no legal precedent. You think this supreme court is gonna stop him?
Also, he absolutely can pardon for something that was dismissed. Nixon got pardoned for something he was never even charged with.
Fun mental excersise:
Even if the president can’t pardon themself. They could just temporarily declare themselves inable to perform the powers and duties of the presidency, then the VP becomes Acting President, and the VP as Acting President can pardon the President. Voila, its not a self-pardon.
Shenaigans… Shenanigans…
He could. The president can pardon any federal crimes that’s already committed except in cases of impeachment. Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon even tho he was never charged with crimes. Now the constitution never explicitely said they can pardom themselves, but maybe the supreme court would let him.
Jack Smith, apparently.
Legal justice has become a pipedream. The only options with any real chance of happening are vigilante justice or no justice.
Vigilante Justice isn’t really justice tho.
He’s just gonna get famous for getting “Assassinated”.
He needs to rot in prison and die there so his name is tainted forever.
Agreed, but I don’t see that happening in the absence of a legal justice system.
Do you have realistic ideas on how to make that happen?
The system is not your friend. Its goal is the preservation of power and stratification of society. Thats what it does, thats what its for.
Right now, he’s power, and stratifying admirably. The courts and their bloody enforcers belong to him, or people like him.
Always was.
Well, community and restorative, but our society still sees those as equally/more objectionable than vigilante.
I mean, we all saw this coming.
It still feels weird that you can’t jail someone in 4 years even if you prove they are guilty.
Americans should be rioting in the streets, let him serve from jail.
Liberals fundamentally can’t do anything about this. Not even if they cared. Which they do not.
No amount if proof matters, because the liberal horizon of action does not include any remedy to this problem. Like asking your homeopath to treat a gun shot wound.
Feckless.
I want this to be literally the only word on Merrick Garlands Wikipedia page.
Its not Jack Smith’s fault, that’s on the American voters. Well that and Merrick Garland
I honestly can’t be mad. America voted. If anyone has the audacity to be upset when America falls to lawlessness and didn’t vote to punish trump i cannot be concerned.
Biden should have sent Seal Tim Six to Mar-A-Lago
Fucking pussy
Leave my boy Jack Smith alone. He tried, the American voters failed him.
The American voters failed humanity.
I dont think you understand the situation.
The DOJ cannot try a sitting president as matter of policy. If he continued the trial against policy then there is a good chance more judge delays and stays push it out until trump is president and he makes it go away, especially if he gets it dismissed with prejudice. If he drops it now it has the chance to be re-tried again when trumppeacefully gives up powerleaves office in 4 years time.Legal eagle on youtube did a whole video explaining the situation in depth if you want a qualified explanation.
