This is so ridiculous. He killed a dude. That’s worthy of the death penalty (not in Texas)!? People have done worse to many people, or children, or… and not been sentenced to death.
Even if you’re 100% against murder in all circumstances and feel he should be locked up forever, you have to see this is just CEO’s exercising their outsized influence to discourage further punishment of the 1% and corporate leaders that prey on Americans…
Trump himself and all of his rich friends on Epstein’s island have done way worse than Luigi. At least I consider the systematic rape of children and human trafficking worse than killing a mass murderer.
They’re not even going to pretend that people are equal. The Donvict, President Musk, and the MAGAstappo deeply believe that rich white men are worth more than anyone who isn’t one of them, and will use the full force of the law as they interpret it to protect their interests.
Just you wait. They’re going to push for laws specifically protecting what they’ll call “High Value Citizens” or something to that effect. Give it time.
“VIP” getting you a special booth at a restaurant or preferential treatment at a business is one thing.
“VIP” giving you special legal protections and immunity to prosecution is another. As bad as “VIP” bias is now, just wait until it’s actually codified into law and you’ll see why “Second class citizen” is such a ubiquitous term for the systematically oppressed.
I’m sure the SCROTUS will find some reason to invalidate the Constitutional forbidding of a nobility soon. Like they ignored the Constitutional bar to holding office by participants in an insurrection.
Some opportunities are codified to only VIPs - e.g. you can’t invest in a hedge fund legally unless you have certain net worth.
Punishments? If a punishment for a crime is monetary (like a fine), it’s an absolute, not percentage based, so wealthy and not people are affected very differently by it.
What else do you want? Literal human hunting license?
Self-defense and defending another person are both defenses against a murder charge. Neither of those acts is in itself murder. Killing another person is homicide. For it to be murder, additional factors have to be considered.
Most legal systems would not justify lethal force to stop murder by omission unless the omission creates an immediate life-threatening situation and there is no other reasonable alternative.
We can even pinpoint the exact moment it becomes life-threatening without a reasonable alternative; When these spawns of the devil have a momentary self-reflective thought while moving their pencil to the checkbox to deny a valid healthcare claim. In that moment they either help their fellow human, or commit murder.
People kill people in war and they don’t go to jail. Luigi fought for us in the war against abusive healthcare monopoly prices. He is a hero and should be freed.
His is a wonderful use case for jury nullification. Just remember never to use that term during deliberations. Just vote not guilty, and if pressed, say that the evidence doesn’t support the charge. And say nothing more. Jurors are not obliged to explain their reasoning to the judge or to other jurors.
This actually isn’t enough, right? It just results in a hung jury, and the prosecution gets another bite at the apple. You need to actively convince your fellow jurors to render a not-guilty verdict.
Mr Mangione is facing 11 state criminal counts in New York, including first-degree murder and murder as a crime of terrorism.
If convicted of all the counts, he would face a mandatory sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole.
Federal prosecutors have also separately charged Mr Mangione for using a firearm to commit murder and interstate stalking resulting in death. Both charges could make him eligible for the death penalty.
Stalking: Interstate via traveling from Georgia to New York
Stalking: Interstate via use of a cellphone and the Internet
New York State doesn’t have capital punishment. So I think that it’s the interstate aspect that made it federal jurisdiction and thus a capital crime. Otherwise, he’d just be facing life in prison without possibility of parole.
Hmm. That’s a good question; I don’t know of a legal doctrine that does that. But it’s three counts – one in the first degree, and two in the second degree.
kagis
I can’t find someone discussing this case in particular in a quick couple searches, but this does have another case — a policeman who killed a single person — who was charged with multiple counts of murder as well.
This is Illinois state law, but I’d guess that it probably works the same way elsewhere.
I was reading about the murder of Sonya Massey by an Illinois police officer and saw that he’s been charged with three counts of first degree murder. I suppose what confuses me is that there was only one victim. Why do some states apply multiple murder charges when there is only one victim? Intuitively that seems odd.
It’s probably three different theories of the crime. The Illinois Murder 1 statute does have 3 theories:
Sec. 9-1. First degree murder.
(a) A person who kills an individual without lawful justification commits first degree murder if, in performing the acts which cause the death:
(1) he or she either intends to kill or do great bodily harm to that individual or another, or knows that such acts will cause death to that individual or another; or
(2) he or she knows that such acts create a strong probability of death or great bodily harm to that individual or another; or
(3) he or she, acting alone or with one or more participants, commits or attempts to commit a forcible felony other than second degree murder, and in the course of or in furtherance of such crime or flight therefrom, he or she or another participant causes the death of a person.
Each theory that the prosecutor thinks applies needs to be charged. (You can’t convict someone of something you forgot to charge them with.) They do this in case one theory ends up falling through. Maybe they think it was intentional, but if they can’t prove it was intentional, they think they can definitely prove that he knew there was a strong probability of death, and if they can’t prove either of those mental states, they think they can still prove that it happened during the commission of a felony. (I don’t know the facts of this case so I’m just speaking in generalities/hypotheticals.)
But even if he were convicted of all 3, the counts would merge and the sentence would not be 3x as long.
This is so ridiculous. He killed a dude. That’s worthy of the death penalty (not in Texas)!? People have done worse to many people, or children, or… and not been sentenced to death.
Even if you’re 100% against murder in all circumstances and feel he should be locked up forever, you have to see this is just CEO’s exercising their outsized influence to discourage further punishment of the 1% and corporate leaders that prey on Americans…
Trump himself and all of his rich friends on Epstein’s island have done way worse than Luigi. At least I consider the systematic rape of children and human trafficking worse than killing a mass murderer.
The more that Trump floods the zone with bullshit, the more likely the defense can convince a judge that a fair trial is impossible.
They’re not even going to pretend that people are equal. The Donvict, President Musk, and the MAGAstappo deeply believe that rich white men are worth more than anyone who isn’t one of them, and will use the full force of the law as they interpret it to protect their interests.
Just you wait. They’re going to push for laws specifically protecting what they’ll call “High Value Citizens” or something to that effect. Give it time.
It’s called VIP and the concept isn’t new.
“VIP” getting you a special booth at a restaurant or preferential treatment at a business is one thing.
“VIP” giving you special legal protections and immunity to prosecution is another. As bad as “VIP” bias is now, just wait until it’s actually codified into law and you’ll see why “Second class citizen” is such a ubiquitous term for the systematically oppressed.
I’m sure the SCROTUS will find some reason to invalidate the Constitutional forbidding of a nobility soon. Like they ignored the Constitutional bar to holding office by participants in an insurrection.
Not codified?
Some opportunities are codified to only VIPs - e.g. you can’t invest in a hedge fund legally unless you have certain net worth.
Punishments? If a punishment for a crime is monetary (like a fine), it’s an absolute, not percentage based, so wealthy and not people are affected very differently by it.
What else do you want? Literal human hunting license?
So you are saying that VIP has a specific legal definition?
I see this as “if I’m going to get the death penalty anyway, might as well take out as many of them as I can.”
Murder is legal in self-defense or to save the live of another.
That’s how you need to look at this.
Self-defense and defending another person are both defenses against a murder charge. Neither of those acts is in itself murder. Killing another person is homicide. For it to be murder, additional factors have to be considered.
It’s not murder if it’s done in self-defense or to save the life of some other innocent person. It’s justifiable homicide.
Depends on what country you live in. In Canada that is not a valid reason to kill.
I understand what you’re getting at but self-defense requires an imminent risk of physical harm.
You can’t self-defense a bank employee who might harm you by declining your loan application.
You can’t self-defense your alcoholic neighbor because they might drive drunk later and kill someone.
Most legal systems would not justify lethal force to stop murder by omission unless the omission creates an immediate life-threatening situation and there is no other reasonable alternative.
We can even pinpoint the exact moment it becomes life-threatening without a reasonable alternative; When these spawns of the devil have a momentary self-reflective thought while moving their pencil to the checkbox to deny a valid healthcare claim. In that moment they either help their fellow human, or commit murder.
I call bullshit on that. Post the law that makes it legal.
Of which country?
I generalized the law of most civilized countries.
Look up murder by omission or something.
Or killing OJ
People kill people in war and they don’t go to jail. Luigi fought for us in the war against abusive healthcare monopoly prices. He is a hero and should be freed.
His is a wonderful use case for jury nullification. Just remember never to use that term during deliberations. Just vote not guilty, and if pressed, say that the evidence doesn’t support the charge. And say nothing more. Jurors are not obliged to explain their reasoning to the judge or to other jurors.
This actually isn’t enough, right? It just results in a hung jury, and the prosecution gets another bite at the apple. You need to actively convince your fellow jurors to render a not-guilty verdict.
goes looking for the charges
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Brian_Thompson
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwypvd9kdewo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luigi_Mangione
New York State doesn’t have capital punishment. So I think that it’s the interstate aspect that made it federal jurisdiction and thus a capital crime. Otherwise, he’d just be facing life in prison without possibility of parole.
Wait, how is it two counts of murder? Are CEOs worth double points?
Hmm. That’s a good question; I don’t know of a legal doctrine that does that. But it’s three counts – one in the first degree, and two in the second degree.
kagis
I can’t find someone discussing this case in particular in a quick couple searches, but this does have another case — a policeman who killed a single person — who was charged with multiple counts of murder as well.
This is Illinois state law, but I’d guess that it probably works the same way elsewhere.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Ask_Lawyers/comments/1eiev8h/three_murder_charges_for_killing_one_person/
We in America are immune from double jeopardy, yes, but what about triple jeopardy?
Also very interesting to see that the federal government is all worked up when a firearm (gasp) is used to hurt some rich dirtbag.
a cop is one point. a ceo is 2 points. a horrible politician is three. and of course, the goal is to get the most points
It pisses me off that he can get charged si much for one potential crime. How can he get TWO counts of 2nd degree if it’s one murder?
He should’ve did whatever Kyle Rittenhouse did.
Be a right winger.
Hard to do that when you’re killing a CEO. Right wingers are known more for how badly they want to lick their boots. :/