Fucking backward religion. So much would be better without any religion whatsoever
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As a Muslim, I’ll say two things:
1-“Religion of peace” is a word made up by right-wing Islamophobes so they can hate on Islam more. Islam never claims to be a “religion of peace”, though peace is valued highly in Islam.
2-What Iran is doing is at best tangentially related to Islam. They’re a dictatorship, plain and simple.
But it seems that when religion is intermixed with politics, it inevitably leads to dictatorships or regressive government.
At one point, where is the separation? I get that dictatorships also happen without religion, but it seems that religious parties in power inevitably bring a regressive agenda with them.
I’d say that this is an example of correlation vs causation (nowadays the conditions that are likely to produce religious governments are also exceedingly likely to produce dictatorships), but either way that’s not what I’m talking about.
The point is: There’s nothing in Islam justifying the shit they’re doing in Iran. At times like these people tend to forget that Middle Eastern cultures themselves are quiet sexist, and are many times actually held back by Islam, speaking as a Middle Eastern guy. That aside, this is a dictatorship that’s using Islam to give itself legitimacy; Islam itself doesn’t support this kind of behavior in the slightest, and most Muslims don’t either.
I understand that Islam doesn’t support anything like that in the scriptures, just like many other religions.
But religion has been used for milleniums as a cover for atrocious actions. At this point, they are not separable. So when is it enough?
Religion is inherently conservative. And we see everyday what conservatism does to the planet and the society.
But religion has been used for milleniums as a cover for atrocious actions. At this point, they are not separable. So when is it enough?
But don’t non-religious dictatorships also commit atrocious actions? In the end a cover is just that: a cover.
I am not talking about dictatorships only. Religion has been used to cover so many atrocities that it’s impossible to dissociate the actions from the religion itself.
But don’t non-religious dictatorships also commit atrocious actions?
Just because people die from heart attacks doesn’t mean cancer does not kill.
The USSR was atheist and was easily as terrible as Iran is now.
I am not saying that being a secular person stops that person from being shitty, but religion has been used to cover so many atrocities that the actions taken in the name of the religion cannot be disassociated from the religion itself.
I’d say more personally given they actually committed genocide, but yeah.
There is nothing inherent in Islam (or any religion) either way. You can present it as moderate or extremist depending on what parts of it you emphasize more, not unlike reform vs ultra orthodox judaism.
No? As a Muslim that’s not a thing in Islam, since we didn’t (and have no intention of having) a reformation. All parts of Islam are equally emphasized.
I know. I didn’t say Islam had a reformation.
Many Muslim leaders have called Islam a religion of peace. For example, the former Grand Imam of Al-Azhar, Ahmed el-Tayeb, has said that “Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance” and that “it is against all forms of violence and terrorism.” The current Grand Imam, Ahmed al-Tayyib, has also said that “Islam is a religion of peace and love” and that “it is against all forms of violence and extremism.”
Other Muslim leaders who have called Islam a religion of peace include the former King Abdullah II of Jordan, the former President of Indonesia Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, and the former Prime Minister of Malaysia Mahathir Mohamad.
Calling Islam a religion of peace and calling it the “religion of peace” as a name are different things. Peace is valued highly in Islam, but it’s not defined by it.
I keep it as Ricky Gervais once put it: for a true religion of peace, the most extreme followers would be extremely peaceful.
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I wish I could meet some True Followers of Islam, I bet they all live in Scotland with the True Scotsmen.
They live… uh…
everyoneeverywhere. Quick reminder that the people protesting in Iran were also Muslims; they weren’t imported for the occasion.Edit: Fuck I brainfarted at the most important part.
Ban religion. In my eyes, those who are religious are terrorists
Are you a troll or are you actually that dumb?
Do you support gay/trans rights?
No, and if the criticism was directed at that I’d understand, but that’s clearly not what’s going on in the comments here. So can we keep criticism to things that are factually true, and not the actions of a minority dictatorship that’s opposed by their own population?
The reason I was able to guess that was because I looked at data on Islamic beliefs around the world. Most also support sharia law, which supports the use of lashes for various crimes(correct me if I’m wrong).
So do you believe lashes are an acceptable form of punishment? If so, then is your argument simply around it’s usage in this context and that there’s no Islamic law that states to lash people protesting the religion?
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Are you trying to tell that Iran has nothing to do with Islam? Is hijab has nothing to do with Islam?
Lashing people for saying things you don’t like has nothing to do with Islam.
Or is Iran following wrong/different kind of Islam?
Iran is Shia so since I’m Sunni my answer would be yes, but that’s not what you’re asking. An asshole that uses Islam as an excuse doesn’t indict Islam as a whole. Or it does, in which case we could use China and the USSR to say a lot about atheism.
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Iran should just deport all their engineers, philosophers, critical thinkers, social unacceptable members to other countries that would be glad to receive a brain boost. That way, Iran could just happily fucking rot in its own juices.
Nah, the religious fanatics should all just move to a mountain top monastery like they did in ancient times. They’d be much happier there.
I’d accept that too! And stop being allowed to make social policy and laws!
Well one of them managed to escape
Who is going to take them? Every country puts up walls to keep refugees out.
People with advanced education have a much easier time immigrating.
Money
They already are!
Religion of peace
This is wrong by an islamic standpoint. Go to reddit with this bs… Life isnt that simple you 🤡
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(or practically any country with an islamic majority),
Oh you mean like Indonesia, Malaysia and all of North Africa? You’re free to be an ignorant Islamophobe, but please do it after using Google for five seconds.
so now the exception is the majority? And Islamophobe it was created to deflect any criticism of islam, I say it’s wrong to throw a bomb and kill 12 because someone drew a picture of mohamed and I’m islamophobic, if I say it’s wrong to give 74 lashes because someone doesn’t agree with your religion and I’m islamophobic, if I say it’s barbaric to behead someone because they spoke against islam and I’m islamophobic, “everything I don’t like is is islamophobia”. Come up with better arguments instead of using buzzwords.
And I’m against all religions, especially Abrahamic ones, don’t think Islam is special just because I’m criticizing it here.
And Islamophobe it was created to deflect any criticism of islam,
No, it was created because people like you hate Muslims, and we needed a term for that. Or are you somehow denying that Muslims experience discrimination based on their religion (if only we had a term for that, maybe something starting with Islam and ending with phobia)?
Either way I don’t intend to pursue this conversation any further, but if your answer to my question is yes (and even if it’s no, really), you need to interact more with the outside world.
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Does not change anything about what i said. Religion has nothing to do with any of this, these countries would still be shitholes even if it never existed, but sure keep telling yourself what you want, makes it easier
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İran has been muslim for quite some time, was it always as it is right now? Do you seriously think that islam is the only factor here? Think a little bit for yourself
Hijab is not mandatory in Pakistan, you obviously have no clue what you’re talking about
No, you that have no idea what you’re talking about, where did I say about hijab? I’m talking about 74 lashes for not agreeing with something. The issue here is this medieval culture of imposing nonsense based on an old book written by ignorant bedouins living in the middle of the desert, and barbarically punishing anyone who doesn’t agree with that nonsense.
If in Pakistan, a democratic Muslim-majority country, hijab is not mandatory, then what makes you think a majority of Muslims agree with what this poor woman is going through? Hijab is also not mandatory in Turkey, Indonesia, and Morocco, but go on ahead and tell me how all Muslims are blood thirsty savages. Plenty of Muslims protested against the hijab in Iran just last year, but go on ahead and tell me how they support this woman’s sentencing. After all, according to you, a vast majority of Muslims wish harm on women who decide not to wear a hijab.
what’s your fixation with hijabs? who’s talking about hijabs? can you read? read again what I wrote above.
She is getting 74 lashes for not wearing a hijab, what in the world are you going on about? You’re trying to say that what she is going through is Islamic and there are plenty of arguments all throughout this comment section proving that it has nothing to do with Islam or Muslims, yet you keep on going on about how evil they are and how they approve of her fate. I suggest you take a reading comprehension test, or better yet, stop trying to purposefully obfuscate your argument as it becomes more and more untenable.
Wait, people actually still get lashes?? What fucking year is this
Lashes is for the lucky ones.
The less lucky ones get hanged. And if you think hanged as in a quick drop and neck snap, no. They hang you slowly with a crane so that you suffer more, that is required by
Darth vaderthe ayatollah…Fuck everything about those religious zealot nut cases
It’s the age where in many muslim countries, if you say something even mildly critical about the ruling class or the priests or Islam, there’s a very high risk of being executed for it.
yeah welcome to the real world
“We are struggling against sanctions and need to build our own capacities up and become more independent.”
“Better attack the people we need to do it then. A piece of cloth is more important than our survival.”
so much fuss over a hat,please muslims, make it make sense. why is it a female’s job to worry about your stupid ass erections?
Dont say muslims, i dont give a shit what you think this is OBVIOUSLY not what the majority of muslims want or support. This isnt even right in the most literal islamic pov
Would you kindly explain how the no true Scotsman fallacy applies here?
It is explained for 5 yearolds in the article.
The people doing this are muslims doing it in the name of Islam. If you’re only defence is that they’re not “real” muslims then youre what the fallacy is talking about.
I’m not saying they’re not real Muslims, but that doesn’t mean all Muslims, or Islam as a whole, is like that. Actions of the minority don’t define the majority, or else they’d be just that: A majority.
The silence of the mayority is complicit approval
And Mohamed can take his shit book and push it right up his pedophile ass
Yeah nah over a billion people dont have to speak up because of actions like this in random ass countries, especially a shia country, that mist wouldn’t even consider muslim…
if its not what they want why is it happening? complicit by apathy, so long as you aren’t getting lashed
Islam is a religion built on and applied with the sword of ‘comply or die’. seriously. wake the fuck up. muslims are like a modern version of Nazis. so many want to say they are good, but explain Iran. go ahead. not only will i wait. i want you to move there.
You didn’t answer my question; Why is she being lashed for not wearing a hat?
It’s Muslim Rules she is breaking.
Why is the hat so scandalous as to invoke such a punishment?
Let me make this a mirror for just a second, imagine, if you can, that instead of this woman being lashed, it was you being lashed for not wearing a hat. How would that make you feel?
Again no, there is no such rule. You can not enforce Islam and you can not punish someone for not following it with lashes, such things are forbidden.
so why is she getting lashed due to islamic law?
A religion where women are beaten and people are blown up for fun. Islam is like a cancer of all modern religions. I must check how many down votes I get in next 12h.
cancer of all modern religions
Meh, they’re all pretty bad imo
Modern Religion is an oxymoron
Oh none from me, though I’d pool just about every other religion in with that. They’re all shit in their own ways. The concept of a modern religion also makes no sense, by their nature religions are archaic power tools used to control the masses against their individual will via their collective will.
A religion where women are beaten and people are blown up for fun.
I’ll just say that we (well most of us) also hate the people who do these things. I’ll also say that you’re a bigot.
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A country of barbarians.
every religious-led country is a country of barbarians.
it is the human collective absolving themselves of responsibility in liue of some greater power
religion is a transmissible poison that must be removed, like cigarettes
Hooray, a Persian Gulf country sentenced someone to a punishment other than death for a harmless crime!
I thought 74 Lashes were clearly lethal?
AFAIK there is nothing humane about such a sentence, on the contrary, it can mean slow and painful death.
I just tried to find this out, in most muslim countries, the too many lashes are spread out over several times, to avoid death. A limit is for example 50 lashes per time in Saudi Arabia.
Fucking barbarians.
Absolutely, although I don’t think barbarians were quite that bad.
Wasn’t barbarian just Roman slang for non Romans?
I think Barbarian comes from much later when the Barbary Pirates were kidnapping people and razing villages and towns to the ground and forcing people into slavery. I think “Goths” and “Vandals” would be more appropriate, but I could be wildly mistaken
Queue the blood eagle!
Obligatory I don’t agree with the mess going on in Iran.
With that out of the way, there’s a decent amount of restrictions on the lashing process to make the sentence painful but not lethal or permanently disabling. Lashing someone with all your strength and ripping the flesh off their back pre-Civil War America style isn’t a thing., because ripping the flesh off people’s backs tends to kill them.
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This isn’t specific to Islam. This is what theocracy looks like. Very few religions are fit doctrines on which to run a country. There are plenty of American Christians who would have me killed for who I am.
The US was ~90% Christian until recently. Same with our elected officials, bad things happen from time to time and stupid laws, but the rate of attrocious incidents like this are far less. You could argue it’s cultural, not based in religious text, but tell that to apostates that fear for their lives.
I think Christianity can be used as the banner for an archaic regime just as easily as Islam. It hasn’t mostly because Christian majority countries happen to have moved on to science, industry and commerce. Middle East countries have been so actively fucked with by the west that they really can’t climb that ladder, except the ones that have some stability thanks to having a monarch defended by the west. Iran’s holy revolution was a response to a US puppet ruler. Afghanistan has been kept in the dark ages by constant war fueled by western states. Yemen has been brutalized by the Saudis without repercussion because the West protect the Saudis.
So who are really the barbarians in this picture? The west enjoy all the trappings of a modern society but the games they play with other regions in the world are beyond barbaric: the barbarism is just more obscured and geographically removed.
Throw some bombs at Mississippi, kill the bulk of their leadership, and they’ll be hanging queers in a week. I have been attacked in public by an American Christian extremist; I sometimes get to fear for my life right here in the Midwest. Put these people in a state of desperation, and it’ll be a swampy theocracy in no time. America is ~250 years into running a country that was founded on not having a state religion. That’s a far cry from a theocracy founded under violent foreign interference less than a century ago, and we still have dangerous religious extremists. It’s not a matter of culture. It’s a matter of circumstance.
Mate. The Christian religion spawns YE creationists. Thoughts and prayers for the victims of avoidable massacres. Life sentences of servitude for mothers of rape babies. Life sentences of fear for gay people.
All religion is twisted. Why pick on one or another? They all need to go.
And muslisms in france don’t understand the ban of hijabs in schools. This is why.
Talk about a non-sequitor.
Explain?
You’re basically saying France that banning hijab somehow has anything to do with not becoming a dictatorship.
It is banning a religious ideal imposed by an opressive reliegion. It has anything to do with not becoming a dictatorship.
This is how a dictatorship look like: “Iranian Enginner who protested forced hijab sentenced to 74 lashes”
You’re still not actually supporting that claim. I guess this is what it looks like when you haven’t reasoned your way into a position.
By the way, there’s a reason democracies tend to value freedom of religion.
Is anyone banning people from being Muslims? Let me know and I’ll go protest for them to the streets.
Seriously, this is the best you came up with? Technically being Muslim isn’t banned in China either. Preventing people from harmlessly practicing their religion is also against freedom of religion.
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Wait what??? But my college buddy who fell down the ruzzian propaganda pipeline tells me the west is evil and Iran is actions of the most moral countries out there!!
Jfc
Iran, such a innocent country, the regime, victims of the evil west…
When I read the title I just imagined how society there is stuck in the medieval ages… just a sad state of affairs…
As others have mentioned, others get far worse, being hung from cranes on a daily bases, most of them Kurds for seeking their freedoms.
Can Iran not be a victim of the west but also wrong in their treatment of women?
Society isn’t stuck in the medieval ages there. It’s cruel, sure. But they have phones, coffee and automatic weapons just like everyone else, so they’re firmly in the same age as everyone else.
This woman is using her privilege as a prominent(ish) figure to highlight the injustices prevalent in Iran, so she’s unlikely to get the worse punishments you’ve mentioned. I say fair play to her and I hope more people get to speak out.
Sadly, though, history tells us that dictators can do whatever the fuck they like to their own people with no repercussions.It’s an evil theocratic dictatorship, but do you know how it got that way? There was a revolution opposing a US puppet ruler. The west would like all Middle East nations to be like the Saudis: nice, stable petro states who are compliant for the most part and who cares what happens there internally. But this formula has gone wrong several times (Iran) or the west hasn’t tried as hard to achieve stability because the oil incentive isn’t there (Syria) or the borders were specifically drawn to crate instability (Iraq).
There’s no pointing fingers at the Middle East without acknowledging the culpability of the UK, France, Russia and the USA in their horrid dysfunction. Understanding this is a rite of passage. Children point and hoot about the horrible Arabs. Adults know what’s actually up with that part of the world.
Interesting. Did the evil west make the islamists purge their leftist allies after the shah was deposed in the glorious revolution?
Don’t try to turn me into someone saying that everything is western corruption and nothing is the fault of the nationals themselves.
That’s a textbook straw man. Have fun beating it up.
Yeah it’s all the west’s fault
Give me a fucking break, the west isn’t responsible for them treating women like literal trash for hundreds of years
No, just for creating the conditions that allowed the mullahs to seize power. You know that the vast majority of Iranians hate the dictatorship, right? Everything they do is to control their internal population. A lot of people who would never call themselves feminists suddenly care about women’s rights when it privides a way for them to unleash their hatred on Iranians.
All religion is fucking useless Jai sree ram jai sree ram 😼🚶 Anyone knows about Dinkoism ? Its a parody religion from kerala
That’s actually really interesting. I wonder if any religious folks are able to deconstruct their own beliefs after seeing this movement.
Several comments on the “real” Islam, sad…
