I definitely see this as “we can’t get away with the boys club anymore” rather than a problem with Gen Z. Gen Z won’t hide their unhappiness with any of the -isms and will call it out instead of just keeping their head down.
Right, it’s not the lack of skills to disagree. What it is, is the bravery to not tolerate intolerance, and they stand for what they believe the world should be. Making mr grouper proud out here.
Yeah, I’m proud of the younger generation. I see them standing up against the kinda shit that my generation at the same age just accepted or perpetrated.
I’m a millennial but this reminds me of when I first got into the work force and was stuck in an office full of boomers with me being the youngest. I remember the boss would take turns taking shots at different people during meetings, making insensitive racial jokes about people. I eventually got tired of doing the uncomfortable fake laugh so I just sat there stone faced during his jokes. He halted the entire meeting to a stop to ask me why I wasn’t laughing. This is the extent to which office culture must be obeyed and how insecure they get when you don’t go along with it. It’s so pathetic.
I’m also a millennial with a similar experience in my first job in 2004 or 2005, except instead of racial jokes, it was jokes about boobs, sexist rumors about another coworker moonlighting as a stripper, unwanted touching, etc, and when I reported it, I was told to “grow up” by my supervisor.
Ohhh yeah, there was that too, I can definitely recall one of my male managers making comments about a woman’s body when she wasn’t in the room. So gross.
“YoU CaNT sAy AnYtHiNg AnYMoRe”
“How am I supposed to compliment a woman these days?”
It’s the same boomers that make those complaints whining about Gen Z
This is exactly it. I’ve seen this exact thing play out a bunch of times. It’s a real threat to them, because so many of these people got to where they are because they know how to work that frat boy culture to their advantage, and now they suddenly have to deal with people who don’t find their shit funny. The reality is that they don’t actually have any real skills besides the politics of being loud and borish.
The thing is, if you say “black lives matter” they’ll quietly run to HR and claim they don’t feel comfortable and they don’t want politics in the workplace. Then they’ll turn right around and go back to talking fondly about their date rape days at Cornell
I read this as Gen Z doesn’t tolerate the boomer/older Gen X intolerant/racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic bullshit that younger Gen X/Older Millennials had to, and a lot of folks receiving this deserved pushback don’t like it.
¯\(ツ)/¯
Thus…proving the point? “If a person thinks I can’t handle disagreement, I bet it’s because they’re some kind of asshole nazi or something! It would be wrong of me to tolerate a difference of opinion with them!”
If the only disagreement you can tolerate is irrelevant minutia, then you aren’t actually tolerant. “I’m totally tolerant, as long as our opinions don’t differ on race, culture, gender, sexual relations, work, religion, or politics” is pretty weak sauce.
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You guys literally couldn’t be leaning into Gen-Z stereotypes any harder.
“Some guy says Gen-Z doesn’t have the ability to respectfully disagree.”
“Man FUCK that guy, I bet he’s an intolerant/racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic piece of shit, and that’s why he can’t get along with us, because it’s definitely not our problem!”
“Uhh, it sorta feels like you’re demonstrating that you really don’t have the ability to disagree.”
__ __ __ __ __ “Lol just cuz I reported a guy who said a thing that hurt my feelings, does that mean we can’t be friends?! Lol jk fuck you too buddy!”
No, sure, you’re totally right, you guys are a real delight to have in conversations and debates.
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Interesting examples for irrelevant minutia. Pretty sure a lot of those things would be very important, particularly race, gender, and sexual orientation.
I mean those are pretty major things, especially if you’re part of one of the affected minorities. If I were trans I wouldn’t really want to work with a coworker who insists on misgendering me and makes a fuss out of me using the right bathroom.
If it doesn’t come up, it doesn’t come up. People can agree to disagree, also. But there are also cases where the disagreement is so fundamental that it makes it pretty hard to respect someone or even want to be in the same room as them.
Sure, it’s supposed to be major things.
There was a point where Europeans were massacring and torturing each other over religious differences, for centuries. Protestants and Catholics considered each other literal heretics, and mortal enemies.
Then they developed this idea of tolerance, and decided that your religious beliefs were your own business. And that worked amazingly well! We can all just get on getting on. This was a huge deal, protestants tolerating catholics and vice versa was every bit as hard as trans people tolerating transphobic people. But it worked, and eventually the differences faded into irrelevance.
And it turned out that the same attitude was great for progress in general: who you love and who you sleep with is your business, and after a decade or two: you know, we’ve all got pretty used to the idea of people being gay. They wanna get married? Sure, I don’t see why not. Tolerance was the basis of most progress in the past few centuries.
And now Gen-Z (or probably just terminally-online people, but as a ratio that’s more of Gen-Z than any earlier group) wants to flip the table. Tolerating ‘intolerance’ is practically a crime! Intolerance, BTW, is when you don’t have the correct set of opinions. People who don’t have the right opinions are monsters, and must be harassed, deplatformed, fired, etc. The wrong opinions are violence.
I’ve seen reactions to ‘bad’ opinions that I would call hysterical.
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I hate these generation based things. Some little time ago there was odd stuff about millennials everywhere. Now Gen-Z. In a few years Gen Alpha. Then whatever comes next and so on.
People just like to label people. And generations are just another option.
Agreed, but I see plenty of Millennials and Gen-Zers making plenty of criticisms and jokes about Boomers all the time. It’s no better when we do it.
Man, I’ve started to see it happening between just the Millennials and the Gen-Z. I assume a good chunk of it is for rage bait/views, at least that’s what I’m hoping for. It’s so much better when we’re working together to try to better the future.
Never seen this besides on algorithm driven social platforms tho…
I do see boomer hate every tho
Regardless of where it’s seen, it’s still a bad habit we all need to break. It only perpetuates in creating division.
Most of the internet traffic is bots paid for by bad actors ;)
Consider that fact when approaching online discussions
Honestly this isn’t a gen z thing, it’s just a shit article thing. 70% of this piece is just this one fucking guy bitching about the “kids these days”
Ya, my boss is someone who always makes it about generation this and generation that.
It’s not about generations, if baby boomers had the technology we have today they’d have done the same stupid shit.
If you remove the gen z distinction: yeah. People have lost the ability to acknowledge there are other world views than their own.
Sometimes it is a good thing. “Agree to disagree” on a person’s fundamental right to existence is one of the may things that has made the world so fucked up.
But also? People in general spend so much time surrounded by The Algorithm and having every aspect of their media and news consumption catered to them that it makes a massive disconnect. When youtube or even lemmy/reddit always shows you what you want to hear, someone doing the opposite is not only a personal insult: it is an attack on your very reality.
And while it likely impacts gen z and younger millenials more: one of my co-workers is a boomer ass boomer who was mostly hired as a favor to an influential person at one of the companies we are trying to get as a client. And it feels like every other sentence out of his mouth is “you are being intentionally obtuse” because he cannot fathom a world where he is not right and an expert in everything he thinks about.
And you can see it in most threads where people have an actual discussion. People LOVE to say “I think you are being disingenuous” or “you are being argumentative” because it is easier to call someone else a liar than it is to realize they came to a different conclusion.
Yeah I agree and think dismissal of perspectives and even dehumanization of people you disagree with is definitely a big problem right now.
There are even folks that do this and try to prop themselves up as “intellectuals” by citing various “fallacies” – like the straw man fallacy – without knowing what they’re talking about. I’ve only bumped into it a couple of times but it’s annoying when it happens.
You don’t have to agree with a perspective but to refuse to humor a perspective… to even try and understand where that person is at so there’s any hope of building a bridge… that’s deeply problematic.
We have no obligation to “agree to disagree” with bigotry. Loudly disagreeing with bigotry is good.
Very well put
No, it’s more that the boomers/older Gen X treats any sign of even polite disagreement as attacks on their very character. Many of them simply cannot accept that their views are outdated, and any challenges to their view is a disrespectful slight.
It’s very telling that many of them still complain about millennials as children ruining everything to this day, when the oldest millennials are in their early 40s, and they are somehow shocked that Gen Z is even more progressive and vocal about their views than us millennials.
It’s impressive, you’re absolutely everywhere :o
It’s rare for me to have this much free time, you’ll probably see a lot less of me here once work starts again.
You will be sorely missed then.
But not in my bedroom 🥲
Not to mention some views of older folks are absolutely bigoted. But it’s the kids who are wrong, apparently.
Welp, Gen Z, it’s your time in the furnace I guess.
I remember when “Millennials are ruining everything” articles were the fodder for lazy writers, now it’s crap like this.
I remember when we killed Applebee’s? That was a fun weekend.
To be fair, Applebee’s needed to be ruined.
I agree but I’ll still miss the quesadilla burger. It was the only half-decent item in their menu.
We just figured out we can microwave our own food
Now it’s cap like this*
Let me paraphrase: Gen Z refuse to take any bullshit from deluded boomers.
This could definitely be editorialized for length but it’s an interesting read.
I’ve definitely felt exactly what they’re talking about. I know many people as described.
Edited for length. Editorializing is introducing your opinion into otherwise pure factual news.
This millennial can’t either.
We just reposting the same things from 10 years ago with “millennials” replaced by “gen z?”
Shut up you
millennialgen z snowflake! You’ll take the recycled content and enjoy it/s, if it wasn’t obvious….I’m noting that same trend myself.
Gen Z are ruining the recycled content industry!
Does that mean Gen Z are going to kill the diamond industry again?
Same thing as thousands of years ago.
Turgenev enters the chat . . .
I read that as “they voice their opinions too much”.
Yeah, this sounds like, “Gen Z won’t put up with the same levels of bullshit as their predecessors “
Some guy says some thing. This is no different from an out of touch boomer saying kids these days don’t want to work.
nah never had that issue and I’m pretty fuckin opinionated. As a chef I argue more with old heads than gen z or millennials.
old fuckers think they know everything
Gen Z seem to lack the skillset to know their place. -boomer boss
The problem is that the things they “disagree” about are sometimes basic scientific facts, like climate change, or beliefs which strongly affect people’s lives negatively, such as racism, anti-lgbt bigotry, or economic views like “it’s just fine to pay people such low wages they can barely afford to live and will never be able to buy a house”.
And why are these politics an issue in the workplace?
I’m 52 and have worked a wide variety of jobs. Nowhere I have worked was it acceptable to talk politics, except on the down low with people you knew well. If there was a political discussion where two people disagreed, they either agreed to disagree, or it was quickly dropped.
Because whether some people are allowed to exist is politics now, and gen z and others aren’t going to quietly let bosses/coworkers banally brutalize people anymore without pushback.
The workplace is steeped in politics, like every other part of your life. The discussions dont have to be about politics day in day out, but somethings have to be addressed directly, work or not.
Basically, if youre workplace is fair and decent, then you likely wont hear anyhting about politics. if it’s full of bigots/abuse, well, people arent putting up with it anymore.
I’m not really sure what the person in the article means. It says something about “lockdown-era students can’t hold down a heated discussion”… but why would they be having heated discussions? It also says
Miami University even organized a dinner with senior leaders in order to teach proper mealtime etiquette, such as how to engage in conversation on neutral topics.
which makes it sound like it’s older people who bring up inappropriate political topics in an inflammatory way.
Because scientific facts, or social and economic issues (that definitely affect and belong in the workplace) are not “politics” regardless of how much you’d like to label them as such so you can shove them under the rug and forget about them, you retrograde fossilized lich, and because “agreeing to disagree” with assholes who hold harmful opinions only serves to empower them and enable them to keep causing harm.
Go ahead, pick fights at work. See how that works out for you. According to the story, it ain’t working out.
My current company is a Seattle based software dev, about as liberal as it gets. You come talking politics and arguing with people, even though you’re on the “right” side, and you’re fucking fired. Bye.
Like you, I’ve moved around the US quite a bit have have worked at a variety of companies. But I noticed that the article mentions Miami University, which is in southwestern Ohio. People around here have an odd idea of what constitutes rudeness or what should not be discussed at work.
They are ALL IN on politics.
Visitors to our work’s Ohio location (from out of country or out of state) are completely freaked out by it. Locals have no idea that their behavior might be considered rude or inappropriate.
Long story short, I’m not even remotely surprised that a local school is trying to teach people manners.
Interesting way of saying “they won’t bend over and spread their arse cheeks”.
