similarly, I’ve removed Microsoft from my system.
Probably a good move on your part. When they try to force windows 11 on me, that’s when I will be moving to Linux.
Why wait, do it now.
I jumped ship to Linux when Win 7 died, cause I’d rather be fucked by a rusty fencepost than be forced to use 10, and 11 is right out.
Looking to move an older Windows 7 laptop to Linux this week, any suggestions? Feels like there’s so much.
If you just need a general purpose desktop and it’s your your first time, I would suggest just picking a popular and stable one with lots of documentation like Debian, Mint or Ubuntu.
I’m leaning towards Debian myself. I don’t like the direction Ubuntu (mint is essentially Ubuntu too) is going. Ubuntu is ran by a for profit company, and it is only going to get worse after snaps.
From what I’ve read Debian is about as new user friendly as Ubuntu is.
Yeah I would definitely choose Debian in that case. Enjoy :)
As someone who switched a year ago and started from Debian - yes, it absolutely is beginner-friendly)
How’s the gaming support on debian?
Fedora saved my old Windows laptop and it was a pretty smooth switch from Windows for me (though I had a bit of Linux experience). That thing became quicker than when I first bought it haha.
Choose a variation of Mint. They have a lighter weight build that is perfect for older hardware just read their site. Mint operates and feels extremely close to w7 and its easy to use! Promise you’ll like it
Ignore all the “this distro is the best”
Just use Ubuntu to start until you know what you wish was different
I agree with the first part but Ubuntu is pretty much the worst distro you can recommend.
It’s what proprietary software tends to target, so for someone just coming from Windows, it’s a decent first choice.
OpenSUSE/Fedora don’t support media codecs without knowing you need to add Packman/RPMFusion
Debian just released Bookworm, so it might be an okay recommendation for now, but as a general rule it’s probably not the best first distro
For someone used to Windows staying the same for years, jumping straight to a rolling release like Arch or its derivatives is a massive change
NixOS is too much configuration for a first time user
Linux Mint is maybe a better first recommendation, but it’s still downstream of Ubuntu (I wouldn’t recommend LMDE for a first time Linux user)
Your response is exactly why people find it so difficult to pick a distro to start. Ubuntu may not be the perfect distro for you or I, but there’s a decent reason it’s one of the biggest, and it has conservative defaults
Until that user knows what things bother them about it or what more they need, we’d just go back and forth all day about upsides and downsides of each distro
Why wait, do it now.
Because Linux is a giant pain in the ass for anyone who is not a software engineer.
In what way?
In the way that you will be expected to memorize a plethora of commands that you then type into a text-based interface the same way you would have with Windows DOS in 1998.
Linux does have desktop environments.
No shit. It doesn’t matter because any type of troubleshooting and most installations require you to dive into the CLI or download an appimage, open the properties and select an executable. This is not remotely intuitive. I mean I could go on and on and on with this but anyone who uses Linux knows it already. I just don’t understand why they can’t see how incredibly unintuitive the entire system is, with seemingly no plans to make it easier.
I think it depends, I guess you “just” need the right distro and compatible hardware (e.g. a Thinkpad). I started as a complete Linux noob too, but most problems I encountered I could easily solve in no time because a lot of things are nicely documented or someone else had them before and documented their solution on the internet. But depending on your usecase and other factors I understand Linux can be a pain in the ass.
Mainstream distros are just as easy to use as windows or MacOS.
As a Linux user I mostly agree…
… until you try to play any competitive multiplayer game and wonder why any anticheat doesn’t work or flags your system and account.
Nowadays I use my Windows 10 mostly for games and video editing.
EAC depending on the title works out of the box from what I’ve seen, I don’t have much time these days to play many competitive shooters or games in general but Battlebit and PlanetSide look to work fine through proton.
Let me tell you a little story about yesterday:
My Signal app on Linux keeps crashing. I write to them for support. They suggest I install the Beta version. Why would they suggest I install a version that openly state is “for users who do not mind discontinuity in service and are willing to work with us to understand and test issues.” to fix an issue, I haven’t the slightest, but I take a look regardless.
“To install on MacOS, download and install this file”
“To install on Windows, download and install the file”
“To install on Linux open a terminal and copy and paste these commands”.
So I open the terminal and copy and paste the commands and I get some generic error message I don’t understand and now I…fuck off because I’m not a software engineer and don’t know how to fix this shit. That’s before even getting into the 2 other commands I’m supposed to run that I don’t understand what they are or what they do.
My ProtonVPN client on Linux is incredibly basic and unstable, and has been for many years while the Windows client is beautiful and functions perfectly in the background with zero interaction.
People who think Linux is fine for the general public are, frankly, delusional. I don’t have another word to explain how you can be under that impression.
You make a fair point. ProtonVPN was a nightmare for me to set up and get working too but I think that’s Proton’s fault more than Linux’s. I have many other applications that I simply installed with one click from the Software application and then have never needed to touch again. It seems not all app developers are equally motivated to make their stuff easy to run.
I think that’s Proton’s fault more than Linux
To the end user, it doesn’t matter.
It seems not all app developers are equally motivated to make their stuff easy to run.
Yes, that is the point. Many developers don’t care to rewrite their software for the 1% of people that daily drive Linux .
There’s still a lot of little things that are still a pain for someone who doesn’t know how things work. Many are not the OS’ fault but still, different experiences.
For example, say you’re running discord. Next week there’s a discord update, it’ll not apply the update automatically, it’ll only download a deb file. An user familiar with windows may try to open the deb file… And it’ll launch the package manager, but the only option available is to uninstall. In order to install the update you’ll need the terminal.
There are a lot of little things like this. This one is just something you need to learn, but others are a real pita when you have no experience.
And if you have a 4k screen and Nvidia gpu when you try Linux for the first time, I guarantee you’re going to hate the experience.
My new hardware is literally incompatible with Windows 11. They’re doing me a kindness I don’t want all this AI shit on my PC
Excuses.
How well will my Index work on Linux?
Haha, I had a partition on my pc for the longest time to put Linux on it. But I do a lot of game dev stuff, so I’ve been reluctant to switch from windows.
Switch to Linux! If nothing else, run stuff with wine and most things will work seamlessly
You’ve made me remember that quite not long ago I wanted to play on Linux (precisely on Mint, but I’ve also tried pop os), and I had three results:
1 - Game not even trying to launch/wine error (usually related to graphics) (did happen once or twice, tested few games): Factorio, without magic wine parameters and magic overall
2 - Game runs, but graphical glitches makes it unplayable: Factorio after tweaks
3 - Game running fine, fps lower or equal than on windows: Minecraft, Kerbal space program
(Yes, now I know Factorio also had Linux version, but it’s too late for that)
So while it may be playable for some 9999 IQ rice master couch-looking moderator after just touching the demon named Wine, I don’t have the brains, patience or time tweaking every little parameter/environmental vars/wine prefixes on top of each other to make a game play at 2 fps. It also didn’t help that when trying to resolve apt conflicts, Mint just killed itself (looking at you
aptitude). My overall experience of Linux isn’t bad, it may be good for customization masters, but for me, which would like having things “just working”, and maybe after that some trial and error tweaks, Windows is closer to that wish. Although when MS forces W11 onto me, I’m jumpshipping to Linux, no matter how shitty my UX is (at least I hope so)Edit: forgot that there is markdown, formating fix
Edit2: bad brain, missing word fix
That’s the real trojan.
I’m not sure about the browser, but a lot of malware used to ship with the tor binary and used it to connect to the CNC. I can totally see it ending up in the indicator list.
I love bashing MS as much as the next guy, but this is not completely indefensible behavior given typical user use cases and needs. As long as it’s easy to add an exception of you installed it on purpose.
Yeah I’m guessing this is a false positive based on heuristic analysis, i.e. the TOR program has a lot of the same behaviors as malicious programs. Of course it is more accurate to say that the malicious programs are copying TOR behavior or just straight using TOR code, whatever the case may be.
My main issue is that it kind of shows a lack of due diligence. I assume the official TOR binaries are signed, so the official TOR binaries should be exempted from these heuristic positives. If the binaries are unsigned/have no valid certificates, then I can totally understand the false positive. At that point, the user should know they are installing software that cannot be automatically verified as being safe, and antivirus should never assume that something is safe otherwise. Like you said, for typical users this should be the expected behavior. Users can always undo Windows Defender actions and add exemptions.
I still don’t understand why Windows doesn’t use .exe whitelisting instead of bothering with endless blacklists and heuristics and antiviruses.
On any given system there’s a handful of legit .exe while out there there’s like a billion malware .exe, and more created every minute.
Or at least switch to an explicit “executable” flag like on MacOS and Linux.
Windows has both WDAC and Applocker for allowlisting, not just for exes, but stuff such as powershell scripts and what drivers run in the kernel as well.
In it’s strongest form (a signed WDAC policy) even admin access can’t easily override it, and a well written policy can even enforce stuff such as downgrade protection (example: only allow firefox.exe signed by Mozilla at or above a certain version) which prevents an attacker from loading older versions of an executable.
The problem is that it’s not so easy to use in practice - an installer will often drop loads of unsigned files. Tor Browser ironically enough is a prime example, and any WDAC policies allowing it have to fallback on hash rules, which are fragile and must be regenerated every update, or filepath rules which are not so robust.
Microsoft is trying to make allowlisting more accessible with Smart App Control, which runs WDAC under the hood. It does save the hassle of managing one’s own policies (and also blocks certain filetypes like lnks commonly used for malware), but it is not very customizable.
From my experience, Windows by default completely blocks non-Microsoft-verified .exes. It’s called S mode and usually requires a Microsoft account to exit.
Do you mean that it’s enough just to be on a microsoft account? On 10, I didn’t technically do anything to exit that and I just have an annoying popup first time I’m using an unverified app. I can just allow them.
You need to “download” normal mode from the store, which requires a Microsoft account to use. All of the W11 computers I’ve gotten came in S mode.
Because it makes it the easiest thing to spoof an .exe which enables attacks of which you will never get out of. A legit.exe vs a spoofed legit.exe will be the exact same in every way except the coding in spoofed fucks you.
Edit: you’re trading security risk for security risk that makes it easier to hide. Not worth it.
Edit 2: their is nothing 100% secure MD5 and Sha1 are both spoofable. Checksums and anything is capable of being man in the middle. You people act like you just found something that can’t be broken. This is the real world the moment you switch most black hatters and white hatters will switch too…
I’m not sure that these things work the way you think they do… an antivirus wouldn’t just look for the name of an executable to be “legit.exe” but rather would look at what the program calls itself in it’s manifest, compute the hash for the executable binary file, and compare that hash against a database of known good hashes. If the contents of the executable compute a hash identical to the known good hash, then you know the contents of the executable are clean.
Still getting into programming and having a bit of trouble understanding what a “manifest” is. What does this technically entail? Are “manifests” implemented differently by PL or OS?
The manifest (at least how I am using the term) is whatever metadata a file has, and the format and location of this metadata can differ between operating systems. Usually the manifest is generated by the operating system based off of header data from the file itself, and details about the file that the operating system can deduce, such as file size, origin, location, file type, etc. In Windows you can view this info by right clicking/opening the context menu on any file and selecting “Properties”, on macOS by opening the context menu and selecting “Get Info”, and on other OSes such as linux/freeBSD it will be something similar.
There are other usages for “manifest” depending on the context, for example a manifest.xml would be something a developer would include with an android app that has configuration settings and properties for the app.
Manifests are like an abstract for an executable.
How is this getting upvoted. This is ridiculous garbage, every exe whitelist would obviously have checksums attached, not just a filename.
Please don’t reply to comments when you’re talking out your ass, that doesn’t help anyone. You don’t know wtf you’re on about, at all.
Not really, WDAC doesn’t usually just look at the filename. It can look at the certificate it was signed by, or fallback to using hashes.
Lmao your edit 2 is completely silly. SHA-256 is what would be used for checksum verification, and SHA-256 is pretty much collision resistant, and even then if two files computed the same hash they would have such different contents/properties that it would be obvious they are not the same file. MD5 and SHA-1 have been phased out for any serious usage for a while now.
Seriously tho, if you don’t know what you are talking about you should probably stop making a fool of yourself
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Oh god I hate that spelling of C2 lol
I have other associations too 😈
Same here. Totally talking about Computer Numerical Control of course, absolutely no other association. Nope, definitely not. 😇
It’s defensible only from the perspective that it’s safer to flag many innocent apps than to miss something harmful. That said, it heavily punishes many legitimate developers and creators, as documented here. I was personally affected on many occasions and there hasn’t been a single one where Microsoft wouldn’t admit to false-flagging upon a manual review.
At this point, Microsoft Windows itself can basically be classified as malware
If we define malware as something having functions to harm the user and not only things build soley for this purpose, then of course Windows is malware.
When Windows 95 was in beta I would install it and next day it was dead. We finally realized that the BIOS was killing it.
Wat?
95 is kill
Is the number 95 like a kill command?
Windows updates are literally harder to stop than actual viruses.
it is - by everyone with half a brain cell or more. Unfortunately, that’s not the majority of users by a long shot.
Incredible the downvotes you get. It’s true. Windows literally spies on you
Hope they’re having fun watching me become Emperor of the HRE as Japan then. Cause I’m stuck with windows
Crusader Kings or Europa Universalis? Because they both work fine on Linux via Proton!
Eu4 with little to no actual knowledge of how the things in my OS work, I just know what Google is. Also I can’t afford a new PC or to risk screwing up my current one
If you’ve got a USB stick lying around you can make a “live disk” (or whatever it’s called nowadays) and run Linux off it to try it out. 90% of being a techie is having an interest and knowing how to do a web search so you’re most of the way there already!
oh noes, my karma! Oh wait - there’s no such thing on lemmy :) In all honesty, I think most people downvoting did not fully understand my comment in relation to the one I was replying to. I think they misread it as “people with half a brain cell or more don’t use windows” and pushed the arrow down.
This is probably it haha
It forces software on your system you don’t want and when you try remove it it reinstall itself just like a virus. Windows 11 especially is trash.
Try edge. Are you sure? It’s better. Why are you going to google? Did you know bing is better?
And so on and so on. It’s gross.
You can even earn reward points and real cash bribes to use Bing.
Dude ms defender used to delete my “Hello World” executables built using visual studio just because they were made by an unknown publisher.
Well maybe you should have become a known publisher before writing any programs.
/s
It flagged your program for being dissident propaganda.
Taught you a lesson.
Microsoft Defender moment
Wow, do you need to have your apps signed by Microsoft now, like macOS’s Gatekeeper makes you do?
Classic Microsoft
I’ve run into antiviruses blocking code I’ve written just because I pulled in certain cryptographic libs. Literally pulling in some Microsoft cryptography libraries in c# made it think I was writing a crypto locker.
Imo, compared to how prevalent viruses were on older versions of windows, this type paranoia seems to be working
It blocked my lousy dll injector that was made for debugging.
Fucking microsoft doing microsoft things.
It blows my mind that Windows can be and is so incompetent. If they did not hold the level of market share that they do, that would be out of business.
People are literally locked in because the software is not made for Linux. But Linux keeps marching and getting better.
We have the games, now all we need are a few professional applications and then Windows can easily be replaced.
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But it’s just defender. It’s free and you don’t have to use it.
It’s not just defender, Window has so many problem. Like constant ads to try to get me to use Bing and Edge. It is bundling a bunch of random software and games during install. It is forcing users to create a Microsoft account when setting up the computer.
On top of all of this, it is the only operating system to crashes on on me during use. Even though it is on my most powerful hardware, it is the computer that runs sluggishly all the time.
You don’t have to create a Microsoft account to use Windoows. In corporate environments most issues are usually mitigated by administrators via group policy. Crashing and bad performance are not typical. Windows is very reliable,
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It’s better to use Whonix or Tails if you want to use TOR browser securely. If I ever had to use Windows again it would not be for anything private.
I’m certain there are people who use Tor in a way that it would make sense to use a secure OS.
But I use Tor to get around stupid public wifis and suchlike that have content blockers. I’m not scared that the police are going to beat the shit out of me so I just use Windows or Android.
Found the white guy!
I’m confused about what you meant by your last sentence. Are you trying to throw a hint that using distros such as Whonix and Tails means you will be doing something illegal?
I’m not afraid of the police coming after me because I’ve done nothing wrong. One of the reasons I use Linux distros and distros that are specialized like Whonix and Tails is because I value my privacy which Windows won’t give you.
No, I’m making a comment about the word “securely” in the post I responded to. i.e. “Secure” means different things for different people.
I like to use Tor on occasion for the reason stated but I’m sure as hell not booting up an OS to do it for my use case. That would be inconvenient especially as I’m using Tor to subvert a stupid netnanny, and not endangering myself or putting myself in legal peril. So using Tor this way is plenty secure - I can hold a secure conversation with a website of my choosing without netnanny interfering.
Other use cases may vary and your need for “secure”. Maybe you absolutely value your privacy above all else, or are up to something you don’t want others to know about. In which case do, go and use Tails or whatever.
A little context, one of the larger exit nodes was compromised and would send malware to your computer. The behavior shield probably caught this and correctly marked the program as a trojan, since, by definition, that’s literally what it was acting as when connected to that node. More advanced AVs (like malwarebytes) will instead block the malicious connection rather than blanket-banning the entire program.
A sane response in a sea of bullshit.
This only happens in the latest version btw.
You can still download previous version and replace tor.exe and it works.
Bot
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Windows Defender sucks compared to the original Williams version.
How dare they use a non-Edge browser for this!
It’s funny that recently NetworkChuck uploaded video about darkweb where he installed tor on windows and now apparently many folks did the same.
https://www.techradar.com/pro/security/microsoft-defender-will-finally-stop-claiming-tor-is-malware
Microsoft Defender will finally stop claiming Tor is malware.
